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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Author Topic: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?  (Read 3852 times)

gruberscomplete

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Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« on: December 17, 2016, 07:30:45 AM »

As we all know, modding is a massive part of Starsector. When the game goes live, it will become a cluster**** of hundreds of modders creating new factions.

Modding Starsector is becoming more and more like modding Skyrim:
This guide for SS mods just gets more and more like the Skyrim STEP guide, just getting more and more complicated.

The requirements for knowing java to create a good mod/faction will stop most people. On the other hand, a lot of players are programmers and will have an OK time learning modding.

Do you guys feel the same way?

« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 07:33:15 AM by gruberscomplete »
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ChaseBears

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2016, 08:56:53 AM »

Starsector's moddability is really good and easily comparable to Skyrim. But IMO the game itself is a little less congenial to mods than Skyrim, since there's a greater degree of variability in what players can do and things they can use in Skyrim.  One example would be quests; an obvious choice and foundation for mods in Skyrim, but you can't do nearly as much with the concept in Starsector. 
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2016, 03:46:01 PM »

I got very, very far without having to do any coding, and I found it pretty easy to recruit help with coding and assemble resources to learn how to suck less at the coding I do have to do myself (an ongoing process).

I would argue the biggest problem with modding is that most potential modders are undisciplined, lazy, or lack relevant skills and the ability to learn them. That's why people start and then abandon IP mods; if they had the ability to finish them, they would have original ideas and the ability to execute those.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2016, 04:00:04 PM »

I would argue the biggest problem with modding is that most potential modders are undisciplined, lazy, or lack relevant skills and the ability to learn them. That's why people start and then abandon IP mods; if they had the ability to finish them, they would have original ideas and the ability to execute those.

Easy there.
While that may apply to some modders many simply choose an already established IP because they love the setting/story/characters or want to pay homage.
I remember playing Distant Worlds exclusively with the Mass Effect mod for quite a while because it was the closest I could get to an actual Mass Effect strategy game (which I would buy in an instant if anybody ever developed one).
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2016, 04:06:41 PM »

Please, show me a finished IP mod for Starsector. Just one, currently updated, functional, and with similar complexity and polish compared to, say, SRA.

I'm not saying all IP mods for all games are made by terrible second-rate modders. But it does seem telling that all the ones for this one have, at the very least, been abandoned quickly when they got to a playable state at all.

Like I said, I got quite far without anything more technical under my belt than the forum search and the Ship Editor*.

*Granted that I'm on a Mac and had to set up WINE to use it. Still not very hard.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2016, 04:18:00 PM »

Please, show me a finished IP mod for Starsector. Just one, currently updated, functional, and with similar complexity and polish compared to, say, SRA.

I'm not saying all IP mods for all games are made by terrible second-rate modders. But it does seem telling that all the ones for this one have, at the very least, been abandoned quickly when they got to a playable state at all.

Fair enough, but Starsector, as much as I like it, is very much on the fringe even when it comes to its own genre.
I'm fairly certain that you could do an excellent Warhammer mod for it for instance, and there have been plenty of those for other titles, but the game is too niche to attract anyone capable and willing to do so.

So yeah, I'm not trying to take anything away from our modders but using Starsector as an example for how bad IP mods compare to original ones seems hardly accurate.
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TJJ

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2016, 05:49:45 PM »

Starsector is still in development; I don't think it's reasonable to expect large scale investment of time by many modders yet.

At a fundamental level though, Java is a huge boon to the moddability of Starsector; it makes the barrier to entry lower for both simple 'intended' mods, and the more adventurous 'unintended' ones.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 05:56:18 PM by TJJ »
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2016, 05:55:33 PM »

With what I've seen thanks to the Discord Tournament, I doubt that we will get tens of faction mods, much less GOOD faction mods. I think most will see the s*** involved and NOPE on out except for basic stat edits even though alot of it is easier than it looks
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2016, 08:35:55 PM »

Yeah. The purely technical skills involved are not especially difficult: probably the most difficult single thing to set up is a star system, and apart from market generation I managed to bash my way through that with nothing but the forum. Art is a matter of static images or fairly simple animations.

The creative skills involved are not esoteric, but they do require an eye and an ear for appealing content. Nothing outside the skillset of a bright undergrad who likes to draw. Set a scope for your project, iterate your assets to the point you want to reach, know what you can do and what you need to ask for help on.

Where I think most people fall down is the creative discipline to put in sustained work on a mod across months or years. That's really the only way you make it to the point of even having a bad mod worth rescuing; you decide to work on it and keep at it for a while. I'm not going to blame anyone for not putting in that kind of work for free on a game that isn't released yet, but there are plenty of people who seem think it is worth it, who have plenty of ideas and enjoy talking about modding possibilities, who nevertheless don't so much as try their hand at it. We have a free sprite thread and the internet is full of free sounds, taking care of everything besides the actual structure of the mod itself if you just want to spend an evening making something simple.

Personally I've had a blast, it dragged me out of a creative slump, gave me a chance to sharpen up some skills I already had and start acquiring some new ones, but I wouldn't promise that experience to everybody. Just note that it's there for you to find if you want it.
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