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Author Topic: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers  (Read 10103 times)

ChaseBears

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Re: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2017, 04:17:31 PM »

The problem with fuel scoops is that they're functionally equivalent to just carrying more fuel, but with fiddly applicability - they'd be worse than carrying more fuel for a good-sized range band, and be increasingly better with really long journeys.  And they'd have potential weirdness like a tanker-heavy fleet actually gaining net fuel.  Since fuel has value, potentially you could earn a lot of money with a bunch of tankers just traveling around.

A less problematic for tankers might be FTL-style rpg encounter options, or for hauling certain rare goods that require fuel tanks rather than cargo space.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 04:30:14 PM by ChaseBears »
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Serenitis

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Re: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2017, 03:02:23 AM »

Fuel is a non-issue with the current sector, but once the exploration mechanics get put in and all the attendant uninhabited systems to explore are a thing, fuel availablity and additional means of aquiring it will need to be looked at seriously.
Unless you actually want the player to be able to reach an unrecoverable end in some remote place.
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Cik

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Re: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2017, 09:18:09 AM »

The problem with fuel scoops is that they're functionally equivalent to just carrying more fuel, but with fiddly applicability - they'd be worse than carrying more fuel for a good-sized range band, and be increasingly better with really long journeys.  And they'd have potential weirdness like a tanker-heavy fleet actually gaining net fuel.  Since fuel has value, potentially you could earn a lot of money with a bunch of tankers just traveling around.

A less problematic for tankers might be FTL-style rpg encounter options, or for hauling certain rare goods that require fuel tanks rather than cargo space.

i don't really think so. make it require a dangerous sun or gas giant dive, make it lock your fleet in place for a little while, make it draw the attention of pirates (who see you as vulnerable) give it a new, dangerous battlefield (upper level of a gas giant/solarsphere) and make the payout in fuel just what's needed to limp back home and it'd be fine. the "theoretical infinite money" thing is only really a problem in theory. in practice there are plenty of ways to make it non-appealing and/or impossible. stranded fleets need a way to be able to gather the necessary resources to make it back, granted this shouldn't be free and should require certain skills in the exploration tree.
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Serenitis

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Re: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2017, 03:51:53 AM »

For those concerned about the economic implications of collecting/creating your own fuel, let me tell you a story about a game I used to play.
You might have even heard about it.

Elite. Specifically in this case; First Encounters.
Spoiler
It was possible in this game to fit some ships with a dedicated fuel scoop which allowed you to collect fuel from various places, which in turn allowed you go wandering on quite a large scale.
There were however some caveats.

Firstly, the places you could collect fuel were limited to stars, brown dwarves, and gas giants.
All of these places have very strong gravity wells and it is possible to get pulled into an unrecoverable dive, so using the autopilot is not a good idea. Manual flying all the way while scooping.
All of these places have an "atmosphere", so you need atmospheric shielding otherwise you'll burn up.
Stars and dwarves are hot so you need at least 1 shield generator so you can get close enough to any gasses without burning, and even then the heat will bleed through the shields and slowly bake you so you have a limited window to collect before you are forced to back off and cool down.
All of these places are usually "in the sticks" of thier systems, so there is zero police presence and you can more or less count on someone trying to jump you while you're busy trying not to die by stupidity.

Then, you can only collect standard hydrogen fuel. So if you want a military drive you can't scoop as well.
This means using civilian drives which are bulky.
You also need free cargo space, usually lots since civilian drives (especially the larger ones) are not very efficient and gulp fuel.

And on top of all this you MUST have your drive serviced at least once a year otherwise it breaks and leaves you stranded.

So your ship has to have a very specific configuration which is (for smaller ships) not optimal for combat, and you are range-limited by how far you can jump out and back to civilisation in a year.
You can turn your ship into a giant flying tanker and scoop fuel for money, but it's both fairly tedious and not very profitable for the amount of capital you need to set it up.
[close]

I would say most of these things could also apply to Starsector in some degree.
Hazardous environments.
Specific equipment/loadout requirements.
Time requirements, leading to;
Potential harassment by hostiles.

The way I see this working in SS is:
Can collect from; gas giants (cool and sensible), nebulae (slow, low efficiency), stars (rich, but do you feel lucky?)
You need; any ship with a fuel scoop and relevant protective hullmods to collect, and at least one tanker class ship to refine

Approach collection site - RNG check for hostile encounter
Check for presence of scooping equipment in fleet - if zero do not continue
Commence scooping
Time skips forward <arbitrary time length> so the player isn't waiting around - if previous hostile RNG was zero check again now
Amount of fuel collected is based on some combination/ratio of the cargo space and speed of the collecting ship(s)
This fuel is raw and unusable, it needs to be refined first - remove <some proportional amount> of supplies to simulate this, bigger tankers are more efficient
Maybe reduce CR for any ship fitted with scoop equipment
Fleet now has more fuel at the cost of time and supplies

You could also have scooping in already devloped/claimed systems be treated like theft in varying degrees.
Potential for sensor/reputation shenannigans etc.
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Embercloud

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Re: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2017, 01:25:04 AM »

I like this idea. Presumably your crew would bail out at the last moment, though.

They would keep moving in the same velocity as the tanker, causing them to slam into the station
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2017, 08:12:50 AM »

I like this idea. Presumably your crew would bail out at the last moment, though.

They would keep moving in the same velocity as the tanker, causing them to slam into the station
And a tanker probably wouldn't have enough escape pods for hundreds of crew.
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Deshara

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Re: Alternate Use for Fuel Tankers
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2017, 05:12:34 PM »

Gives a use for shuttles tho :)
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