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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 639133 times)

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1005 on: April 22, 2017, 11:48:34 AM »

Hold up do torps get affected by flares? And while we're at it, ECM?

I noticed Reapers magically swerving away from ships for some reason so... maybe? They really shouldn't even have the capability to turn though, so bug?

Guided ones do. The Reaper probably hit something (engine-disabled fighter or just a disabled fighter, perhaps?) before it was in flight long enough to be "armed". Or could've been hit by enemy graviton beams.

Another thing I remember:  Helmsmanship 3, 0-flux speed at 1% flux.
This not very practical.  Before, I could have shields up and flux-efficient weapons fire at fleeing ships.  Now, with limited skill points, the benefit seems too marginal for the cost.  25% from before may be excessive, but 1% is very limiting.  Maybe I can have the shield up before I make first contact, but as soon as something sneezes on it or the ship opens fire, the bonus is gone.

Overall, it probably is not the worst perk, but with the 42 point max budget, I will probably leave Helmsmanship at 2 (which I consider must-get for all of my characters since I like a faster-paced game).

I think what you're describing is rather "as intended", though perhaps it might make sense to switch levels 2 and 3 for Helmsmanship.

i don't think basically removing one weapon that was in a decent spot just so fighters can have something that uses the same name and sprite is a good idea.

I really don't think they were in a decent spot, though. Definitely felt too strong for me.

Ah, Daggers were swapped to have Hammers in earlier patch notes. I guess the complaint that having a super low-tech torpedo for a high-tech bomber was heard, heh...

Or maybe even 1500 damage Hammers were still too OP for Daggers. >_>

It wasn't about the "feel" of it (though that's a valid point as well) as much as it was about effectiveness. Hammers missed too much.
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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1006 on: April 22, 2017, 12:00:44 PM »

I really don't think they were in a decent spot, though. Definitely felt too strong for me.
with vanilla stats, i would agree. the Starsector+ mod changed them a bit, reducing speed to make them easier to dodge or shoot down, while keeping their 2500 damage. that felt pretty good, to me.

with only 1000 damage, they just aren't a reasonable Reaper-alternative anymore. more like Harpoon-alternative. not that i mind having the latter, but i still would like to also have the former in some way. Hammers are alright at the lower-end, but i feel also have a rather different focus than Reapers.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1007 on: April 22, 2017, 12:06:20 PM »

with only 1000 damage, they just aren't a reasonable Reaper-alternative anymore. more like Harpoon-alternative. not that i mind having the latter, but i still would like to also have the former in some way. Hammers are alright at the lower-end, but i feel also have a rather different focus than Reapers.

That's fair. On reflection, my feeling is that a "reasonable Reaper alternative" that's guided is... well, not going to say it's impossible, but that's just a dicey premise to start from.
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Alex

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Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1009 on: April 22, 2017, 12:24:50 PM »

On reflection, my feeling is that a "reasonable Reaper alternative" that's guided is... well, not going to say it's impossible, but that's just a dicey premise to start from.
hmm, yeah. how about something that's also unguided, but trades damage and durability for speed? better for hitting smaller/faster targets or exploiting short windows of opportunity, but 1. not quite as devastating when it hits, 2. still needs proper aiming, and 3. doesn't just dash right through mediocre PD screens.

Hammers are slightly faster than Reapers, but not to the point where that little advantage would justify their much lower damage. they're a Reaper alternative more in the sense of "use this when you don't have access to the good stuff".
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Embolism

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1010 on: April 22, 2017, 12:25:08 PM »

A long time ago Atropos had 2000 damage and slow speed. It was considered underpowered then: I think it has a place as a Reaper-alternative by tweaking its mobility stats.

If the reason Hammers weren't used for Daggers was because they missed too much, then how about half-strength Reapers? Extra boom to compensate for lower accuracy. I don't mind if they aren't 100% accurate/reliable: it could add another layer to Daggers vs Tridents too. Do you want more potential damage, or more reliable damage?

(I just want Reaper bombers is all, really.)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 12:28:26 PM by Embolism »
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Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1011 on: April 22, 2017, 12:53:54 PM »

with only 1000 damage, they just aren't a reasonable Reaper-alternative anymore. more like Harpoon-alternative. not that i mind having the latter, but i still would like to also have the former in some way. Hammers are alright at the lower-end, but i feel also have a rather different focus than Reapers.

That's fair. On reflection, my feeling is that a "reasonable Reaper alternative" that's guided is... well, not going to say it's impossible, but that's just a dicey premise to start from.

Maybe if it was a unique missile, mechanically, to not just be an alternative to the reaper but a foil? Costs a good chunk of flux to fire, has a charge-up time, uses energy damage (not worthless against shields, implies high tech, but still not a good investment wasted on hard flux so it still works like a missile use-case wise), has competitive-with-hammer damage and tracks and has high op cost for a single use weapon. Like a missile version of the railgun; an antimatter blaster downgraded slightly and strapped to the tip of a harpoon with its playload removed to make room for armor and a more powerful torpedo-like booster. It's easy to justify and works thematically. I think that's a niche counter to the reaper's "this ship is built around me" pure strike quality that could really use filling imo
It wouldn't interfere with the harpoon cause it has no staying capacity, the hammer beats it out on budget in multiple ways, like the reaper with the hammer it wouldn't pair well with the sabot because it needs to be charged ahead of time & the sabot is hit-or-miss and costing flux to use leaves the high-tech large-only kinetic missiles alone because it's not cost effective at penetrating shields. It would just compete with the reaper, only from the extreme other end of the design theory spectrum
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Abradolf Lincler

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1012 on: April 22, 2017, 01:13:26 PM »

Why the flares for the apogee? It has 360 degree shields so its not like a missile will sneak up its tailpipe, wouldn't a different system make more sense? Doesn't have to be something like sensor drones(though I'd love you if it was). Just something that effects it's engines or shields or something.

Its shield is Frontal, so there is a point to the flares if you're caught with your shields down. Plus even if it were Omni you don't always want to eat a torpedo to your shields. And overall the Apogee was too good (still a bit too good I'd argue), it needed a nerf.

Speaking of drones, the Prometheus still uses PD drones for its system.

Tried out the tempest today, those active flares are actually pretty decent, so that's nice
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Sarissofoi

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1013 on: April 22, 2017, 01:13:51 PM »

Greetings
I just come out here to tell that its really great update and post some POSITIVE FEEDBACK.

Few things that I noticed:
>price for AI cores and planetary survey logs correlate with Stability of the planet/base you sell it
So Gamma core can be sold for 5k(0 stability) or 20k(10 stability)
Beta core from 15k to 60k, Class V planetary survey log from 75k to 300k.
Also surveying and scavenging is really great.
Only things that is bad is that you can not tell the risk or profitability of debris field.  But other stuff is really well done.

Some feedback.
-combat feel really slower,
-fighters are really strong and fun to use but I do not see sense in using other better/more costly types, Talons are great
-some burn speed do not make sense, Gemini for example have 8 burn but why?, mule or condor have 9 and they have similar combat speed, Gemini is also supposedly be better but its slower
No Vulture. Me sad.

Anyway some questions.
-can you find some abandoned habitats/space bases in unknown sectors - to make some sort of forward base for storing loot/fuel ships etc?
-can you find non marked bases/habitable planets with markets in the unknown?
-also is there some way to see the markets info, last time prices somewhere or I need to note it?

Anyway thanks for update, great job and great fun.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 01:23:07 PM by Sarissofoi »
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Abradolf Lincler

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1014 on: April 22, 2017, 02:07:35 PM »

WHY DID YOU GIVE THE TALONS MISSILES!!!?!?!?!

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Wyvern

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1015 on: April 22, 2017, 02:14:25 PM »

My suggestion for Atropos would be increased ammunition - give even the (non-fighter) single-shot version an internal magazine of three shots (albeit with a slow firing rate), and make the two-shot version more like the old harpoon pods: launching two missiles at a time from a magazine of six or maybe eight.  That would strongly differentiate the systems from harpoons, and give them a bit more value for their current OP costs.

And my suggestion for transponder re-activation: this really needs to go into the 'jump into system' dialog; you don't need to change the current options, just add a third one for "jump into system and turn transponder on" - and color it red; that way even if the player is just clicking through those, simply seeing that red line will serve as an immediate reminder.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1016 on: April 22, 2017, 02:20:21 PM »

That second idea about the transponder is great, Wyvern. Numerous times I've taken a rep hit from patrols because I simply forgot to turn the transponder back on when jumping back into a system. >_<

From Wyvern: And my suggestion for transponder re-activation: this really needs to go into the 'jump into system' dialog; you don't need to change the current options, just add a third one for "jump into system and turn transponder on" - and color it red; that way even if the player is just clicking through those, simply seeing that red line will serve as an immediate reminder.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1017 on: April 22, 2017, 02:33:57 PM »

And my suggestion for transponder re-activation: this really needs to go into the 'jump into system' dialog; you don't need to change the current options, just add a third one for "jump into system and turn transponder on" - and color it red; that way even if the player is just clicking through those, simply seeing that red line will serve as an immediate reminder.

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.


I also think that Talons are a bit OP, probably better than some more expensive alternatives. Their swarming behavior makes it impossible for frigates to defend against them.



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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Sy

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1018 on: April 22, 2017, 02:45:18 PM »

trying to activate the Neutron Detector while out of Volatiles still deactivates Sustained Burn, even though nothing else happens. it probably shouldn't.


I also think that Talons are a bit OP, probably better than some more expensive alternatives. Their swarming behavior makes it impossible for frigates to defend against them.
agreed. i think they should either lose the Swarmers, or get some mini-Vulcan that doesn't have as high dps as the normal one.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1019 on: April 22, 2017, 02:59:05 PM »

Something I noticed about the officer level system: In 0.7, it was so that you had to commit to a skill, putting just one or to points in it was ineffective. That's why one of the two upgrade options was always an already learned, but incomplete skill. Now spending single points does often make sense, but you still get these "incomplete" skills as a choice again and again, so you have to eventually take them. For example, I wanted +50% maneuverability from evasive action for my high-tech ship pilot, but he didn't need armor improvement form the same skill. Now it was offered so often that he eventually got it because at some point the alternatives were worse.

Maybe account for this new flexibility of meaningful skill point distribution with three choices instead of two, and only one of them influenced by already learned skills?


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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
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