Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 29 30 [31] 32 33 ... 116

Author Topic: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 639174 times)

SafariJohn

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #450 on: March 26, 2017, 02:09:19 PM »

I don't think it matters whether or not the AI plays by the same rules as the player, so long as it acts like it does.
Spoiler
The other case is where the AI blatantly plays by different rules and is justified in doing so, such as in AI War.
[close]

I think the main problems with the AI's Emergency Burn usage are:
    1. The AI is overeager to use it, and
    2. The AI pursues longer/farther than what feels reasonable. (Such as a patrol pursuing you far into a different faction's territory.)

I think the first one could usually be solved (when the AI is attacking) by a simple check to see if the other fleet is trying to engage it. If both fleets are trying to engage each other there's (usually) no reason for either of them to EB.

Maybe the AI already has this, but having a timer on (some of) its actions which forces it to reevaluate what it's doing every so often might solve the second problem.


I would say E-burn isn't a very interesting mechanic right now. It doesn't really change the outcome of chases at all, you just have to spend a bunch of extra supplies. The AI generally always pops E-burn if you do so if your fleet is slightly faster, you catch them/escape, slower and you don't, same as it would be without the mechanic. If the fleets are the same speed, you just burn supplies forever. ... IMO right now it's a pointless waste of supplies. It's also super annoying to get chased across an entire system by a patrol constantly E-burning after you and your only options are to burn all your supplies or take an impossible fight.

Word.
Logged

ANGRYABOUTELVES

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • AE ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #451 on: March 26, 2017, 02:30:13 PM »

It doesn't really change the outcome of chases at all, you just have to spend a bunch of extra supplies.
If you know how to exploit the AI it can change the outcome of some chases. When both fleets are the same burn speed and the AI is running away, the player can cut inside the AI's trajectory curve and slowly close distance until the AI freaks out and hits E-burn. However, once the AI reaches the distance it considers safe, it won't flee beyond that if it's not a trade fleet. It'll just vibrate back and forth at the radius it considers safe, wasting its E-burn time. Once the AI's E-burn runs out and goes on cooldown, you can E-burn yourself and easily catch it.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 02:32:17 PM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
Logged

Dri

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #452 on: March 26, 2017, 02:35:15 PM »

Eh, I've managed to use Emergency Burn to escape even when I was a slower fleet. It has it's uses...

Now, what I feel would make it even more useful would be to greatly buff the ability to hide in asteroids or nebulae. So, you'd be able to EB away and then "Go Dark" inside something to get away much more reliably. Cause yeah, the instances where you and a fleet just spam EB when it comes off cooldown are kinda silly, but being able to use it to get a brief lead and then being able to hide would be much more satisfying. Of course, the AI should be able to hide as well...Alex's work is never done!
Logged

Midnight Kitsune

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2846
  • Your Friendly Forum Friend
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #453 on: March 26, 2017, 02:52:28 PM »

I agree with the others: The E Burn spamming really makes things Not Fun as it:
  • Makes having an even faster fleet not much of a help
  • Breaks immersion as it shows how the AI doesn't give a crap about money or supplies
  • Screws over newbie/ early game players, especially combined with fleets being able to use small scouts to start the fight so their armada can join in
  • combined with sensors, you can get ganked easily by things you should be able to out run
  • It is easy to cheese the enemy into E Burning, thus wasting some CR

To me, E Burn should be used mainly as a defensive ability by the AI, not offensive
Logged
Help out MesoTroniK, a modder in need

2021 is 2020 won
2022 is 2020 too

AxleMC131

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1722
  • Amateur World-Builder
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #454 on: March 26, 2017, 04:06:38 PM »

Aren't we getting the new "Sustained Burn" ability in 0.8?
Logged

David

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #455 on: March 26, 2017, 04:15:32 PM »

FWIW (having played the latest thing) the Sustained Burn ability, plus various others, solves a lot of the Emergency Burn ambush problems. Not to say I haven't had a couple wild chases, and not to say pirates still aren't annoying at times, but there are a lot of nice tools now. It's also easier to get your hands on random supplies plus the economy for supplies is a little nicer, so losing a bit of CR to EB or an escape interaction doesn't hurt so much, I think.
Logged

Dri

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #456 on: March 26, 2017, 04:53:35 PM »

Speculation can be a dangerous thing! Obviously we should reserve judgement until we have tested it all for ourselves.

So, patch tomorrow?
Logged

Inventor Raccoon

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
  • Digging through trash for a hydroflux catalyst
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #457 on: March 26, 2017, 05:12:31 PM »

Speculation can be a dangerous thing! Obviously we should reserve judgement until we have tested it all for ourselves.

So, patch tomorrow?
Yeah, there's no way we can actually give full balance tips until we've gotten a chance to play 0.8.

Which means it should be released. Now. For testing and balance purposes, I swear.
Logged

Midnight Kitsune

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2846
  • Your Friendly Forum Friend
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #458 on: March 26, 2017, 06:26:40 PM »

Speculation can be a dangerous thing! Obviously we should reserve judgement until we have tested it all for ourselves.

So, patch tomorrow?
Speculation can be a dangerous thing! Obviously we should reserve judgement until we have tested it all for ourselves.

So, patch tomorrow?
Yeah, there's no way we can actually give full balance tips until we've gotten a chance to play 0.8.

Which means it should be released. Now. For testing and balance purposes, I swear.

You guys realize that every time you ask for the patch, Alex pushes the release back a week right?
Logged
Help out MesoTroniK, a modder in need

2021 is 2020 won
2022 is 2020 too

Voyager I

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #459 on: March 26, 2017, 06:50:57 PM »

Every time somebody asks when patch is coming out, Alex kills a Stark.
Logged

Dri

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #460 on: March 26, 2017, 07:16:19 PM »

Do salvage rigs stack or do you just need one to get a flat bonus? I seem to recall a mention of up to 3-4 could increasing salvage...

So if someone wanted to devout their efforts towards surveying planets, what sorts of challenges would they face out there in the more distant systems? Obviously there is the fuel and supply management challenge but can you share something else? The odd secret pirate base, patrolling drone ships, ancient orbiting defense systems?

Many are concerned about the early game being too punishing—what would you say is the single biggest change/addition to the game that is going to make starting out more manageable? Post battle salvage fields?
Logged

Midnight Kitsune

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2846
  • Your Friendly Forum Friend
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #461 on: March 26, 2017, 07:19:52 PM »

Do salvage rigs stack or do you just need one to get a flat bonus? I seem to recall a mention of up to 3-4 could increasing salvage...
Salvage Rigs' in combat bonus has been removed
"Salvage Gantry: removed bonus to salvage from being deployed in combat, wasn't working right design-wise"
Logged
Help out MesoTroniK, a modder in need

2021 is 2020 won
2022 is 2020 too

Dri

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #462 on: March 26, 2017, 07:43:52 PM »

Yeah, but you can have more than one of the same ship in your fleet. I ain't talking about deploying them...
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #463 on: March 26, 2017, 08:21:07 PM »

bah, sorry about the omission, I meant it follows from dri's post, not yours

Ok, gotcha, thanks for clearing that up :)

sure, but there's a difference between "not available to every fleet" and "not available to any fleet save for the player's". If SB is even available to the occasional long-haul freight fleet or explorer expeditions, that would feel much better (given the player also has a similar skill needed to unlock it or something)

I'll give it a fair chance, of course, but idk, think I'll just end up disabling SB for myself manually come the update.

Fair enough. Btw: what I said about it earlier is AI fleets not using it is more to do with "not enough time to look into it" rather than it being a specific design decision.


Re: EB in general: we're all pretty much on the same page here, I think. I mean, I did mention that its usage pattern by the AI is the main problem :) (Edit: not that that's any particular revelation.) Some mechanical tweaks may be in order as well, but we'll see. I think I'll take a quick look at it before release, as far as AI use of it goes.

You guys realize that every time you ask for the patch, Alex pushes the release back a week right?

Oh no, they've finally figured out the real reason 0.8a has been taking so long!



Do salvage rigs stack or do you just need one to get a flat bonus? I seem to recall a mention of up to 3-4 could increasing salvage...

Salvageable stuff has a salvage rating, and rigs provide an additive... 25%? each to the amount of salvage, *up to the salvage rating*. So if you're salvaging something basic, a rig might not provide any benefit, but if you're running a complex operation, then 4? rigs could double your haul.

So if someone wanted to devout their efforts towards surveying planets, what sorts of challenges would they face out there in the more distant systems? Obviously there is the fuel and supply management challenge but can you share something else? The odd secret pirate base, patrolling drone ships, ancient orbiting defense systems?

REDACTED. (Though, naturally, some systems are just empty.) I will say that the biggest challenges in the game are outside the core worlds.


Many are concerned about the early game being too punishing—what would you say is the single biggest change/addition to the game that is going to make starting out more manageable? Post battle salvage fields?

The ample opportunities to get your hands on free stuff. Debris fields are very much part of that, but there's a lot more there. Also, SB to avoid unwanted combat (an EB into SB combination is particularly useful, if timed out right). And a good set of easier early-game opponents.

So... more or less what David said, really :)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 08:36:17 PM by Alex »
Logged

Clockwork Owl

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 790
    • View Profile
    • Starsector South Korean Community
Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #464 on: March 26, 2017, 08:35:54 PM »

Reading through the patch note to translate, I realized one thing: now we can get Mudskipper Mk.II and get rid of its Ill-Advised Modification!
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 29 30 [31] 32 33 ... 116