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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 494303 times)

Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2016, 10:13:55 PM »

could we get a fleet skill that unlocks the ability to toggle full retreat off? For no particular reason, I just like the thought of implementing a huge change in military strategy into the skill tree of a space game.
Also, will the AI implement the Assault Charge?
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2016, 10:21:48 PM »

Can we get a command to kill a target as fast as possible without caring about efficiency? Will "Eliminate" serve this purpose? I've had some situations where a larger ships will refuse to kill a smaller ship inefficiently by using missiles, even if it is one of the only/few threats remaining. Perhaps this is only an issue with Sabots.

That's largely the point of Eliminate, but it's not going to affect missile use directly. That, I think, is a degree of direct control I don't want to expose.


Also, will the AI implement the Assault Charge?

Yeah, very much so. Should make a good deal of difference in terms of how easy it is to solo multiple opponents, especially in the moments between when it gives the order and when you realize that it's done that.
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Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2016, 12:55:30 AM »

Can we get a command to kill a target as fast as possible without caring about efficiency? Will "Eliminate" serve this purpose? I've had some situations where a larger ships will refuse to kill a smaller ship inefficiently by using missiles, even if it is one of the only/few threats remaining. Perhaps this is only an issue with Sabots.

That's largely the point of Eliminate, but it's not going to affect missile use directly. That, I think, is a degree of direct control I don't want to expose.


Also, will the AI implement the Assault Charge?

Yeah, very much so. Should make a good deal of difference in terms of how easy it is to solo multiple opponents, especially in the moments between when it gives the order and when you realize that it's done that.

Will the AI be aware of the limitations of the personalities of the officers in its fleet and if its remaining fleet has too many cautious officers to effectively take down, say, a solo ship player, would they be more likely to trigger full assault mode than if they were to be fielding a fleet of ships that necessarily wouldn't need it? I guess my question is, at the first pass how dynamic are we expecting AI use of FA to be?
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Questionable

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2016, 02:38:58 AM »

    Campaign
    • Deep hyperspace now functions similarly to nebula (slows down smaller fleets, fleets inside are less visible)
      • The slow-down effect is up to 30% (vs 50% for nebula)
    When I first tried out the game I actually though that is how deep hyperspace worked because it literally looks like a nebula. I was pleasantly surprised later when I found out that deep hyperspace doesn't slow you down, only the storms do, so if you were an experienced player you should weave through deep hyperspace while avoiding the storms by seeing the storms build up. I though it was kinda cool that based on "skill" players could take shortcuts and have a faster time moving though.
    With this change though I imagine the navigator perk becomes more useful. But yeah mixed feelings on this.

    • Added new ability: "Sustained Burn"
      • Increases maximum burn by 10
      • Reduces acceleration and sensor range, increases range at which fleet is detected
      • Activation results in fleet slowing down and stopping before sustained drive mode is engaged
      • Intended for long-range travel while creating a vulnerability if hostile fleets are around
    This is something I am rather excited for since I always loved the feeling of "warp drive" powering up before moving through space at massive speed. Will it be something similar to this? https://youtu.be/2sCvIkNRV1o?t=7
    By that I mean that I just hope you give it some visual and possibly audio difference between normal traveling and normal burn drive, so it both looks, sounds and feels different "less burn and more warp" so to speak, which I imagine would both help with "why do the ships need to stop before using this system" question as the ships are using a different system to travel.

    • Odyssey, Conquest: increased burn level by 1
    Neat, with all of the speed nerfs, will conquest get some additional love in the speed department, or is it just me that wants a very fast but frail capital ship compared to the others.

    Combat
    • Thumper: now fires 1-second burst of 20 shots (100 frag damage each), 3 second delay between bursts
    I have never found a use for the thumper,what exactly is it supposed to be good for? Rare cases where you have a ship with exposed hull and no shields? But that assumes a crushing winning position anyway, aren't win more weapons kinda useless? (or is it against fighters? But PD and flak are more versatile in that regard)

    Lastly is there any estimates you can give on when this version will be released? I don't expect a concrete date but I imagine you know if it will take 6 months or 3 months, or 2 or 1...I am not asking for a promise, just an estimate.[/list][/list][/list][/list]
    « Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 03:28:02 AM by Questionable »
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    Tartiflette

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    Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
    « Reply #94 on: December 06, 2016, 03:10:00 AM »

    Almost all of these questions have been already answered.  ???


    >Rig
    Quote
    Yeah, I'm not sure this will stay in actually. It has some other problems - it's either always worth it to deploy the rig, or always not, depending on the battle size.

    >Speed
    There's Safeties Override and some hints about rare drop high tier hullmods to find.

    >Break
    Quote
    When a ship is disabled, there's a chance this will happen. The chance and min/max number of pieces are set per-ship in ship_data.csv. On average, the chance is around 50%.
    Ships that break up won't be available for boarding. For salvage, "destroyed" ships will contribute more than they do now, probably about the same as "disabled".

    >Crew
    Quote
    Yeah, but man does it make so many things on the backend *so* much easier and less bug-prone. Even if this was a subtraction in terms of gameplay (which I don't think it is - it feels cleaner now), it would still be 100% worth it just for how much it makes any related code easier, and for how many more crew-related mechanics are in the game as a result.
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    Questionable

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    Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
    « Reply #95 on: December 06, 2016, 03:20:15 AM »

    My bad, cleaned it up a bit.
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    Megas

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    Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
    « Reply #96 on: December 06, 2016, 05:53:20 AM »

    Quote
    I have never found a use for the thumper,what exactly is it supposed to be good for? Rare cases where you have a ship with exposed hull and no shields? But that assumes a crushing winning position anyway, aren't win more weapons kinda useless? (or is it against fighters? But PD and flak are more versatile in that regard)
    Thumper's problems are numerous.  It has slow windup like Storm Needler and it has relatively short shot range for a ballistic.  If you did not mind fragmentation damage type, Vulcan or Dual Flak were still better.  Vulcan costs less OP for roughly the same DPS, only downside was shorter range (but Vulcan is easier to use than Thumper).  Dual Flak has comparable DPS with area-of-effect to hit more than one target, and is the best PD in the game.  I even prefer single Flak to Thumper, despite less DPS.  Thumper is so bad that it is useless for the player.  If it was designed to be a useless (D) weapon for NPC pirate (D) ships to use, it does that job well.  However, even similarly cheap stuff like Arbalest and Hellbore are effective.  (Too effective for its cost in case of Hellbore.)  Thumper is not.
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    Thaago

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    Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
    « Reply #97 on: December 06, 2016, 06:14:43 AM »

    The new Thumper looks interesting on paper - 2000 damage in a quick burst is pretty nasty and I can imagine sneaking it into a venting or flanked enemy for a surprise kill. Then again, each burst is only 100 frag, or 25 vs armor, and with the new minimum of 5% armor, that means the Thumper's damage output is always going to be significantly less than 2000 per burst.
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    Alex

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    Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
    « Reply #98 on: December 06, 2016, 10:52:21 AM »

      Will the AI be aware of the limitations of the personalities of the officers in its fleet and if its remaining fleet has too many cautious officers to effectively take down, say, a solo ship player, would they be more likely to trigger full assault mode than if they were to be fielding a fleet of ships that necessarily wouldn't need it? I guess my question is, at the first pass how dynamic are we expecting AI use of FA to be?

      I don't honestly remember all the details right now. It's probably not going to be super nuanced about it, though - it's the sort of thing where the nuance seems like it'd be impossible to appreciate or even notice.


      When I first tried out the game I actually though that is how deep hyperspace worked because it literally looks like a nebula. I was pleasantly surprised later when I found out that deep hyperspace doesn't slow you down, only the storms do, so if you were an experienced player you should weave through deep hyperspace while avoiding the storms by seeing the storms build up. I though it was kinda cool that based on "skill" players could take shortcuts and have a faster time moving though.
      With this change though I imagine the navigator perk becomes more useful. But yeah mixed feelings on this.

      Yeah, this pretty much covers it. Made the change because of how confusing it is because it looks like a nebula, but, yes, gameplay-wise it's potentially more desireable to have it function as it does in the current version. However, with the movement penalty in it capping out at 30% (vs 50% for nebula), it's still workable, and it gives a different reason to move through clear areas, so I'm hopeful it'll work out.


      I have never found a use for the thumper,what exactly is it supposed to be good for? Rare cases where you have a ship with exposed hull and no shields? But that assumes a crushing winning position anyway, aren't win more weapons kinda useless? (or is it against fighters? But PD and flak are more versatile in that regard)

      It's not supposed to be good, more of a weapon you use when you don't have anything better, and it's also cheap.

      I do think it gets too much of a bad reputation, though - it's surprisingly flux-efficient in chewing through shields, and can do a good job with just a bit of HE mixed in to do the initial armor-breaking. It can work well on an Enforcer with SO, for example, or some such. Again, not saying it's *good*.

      The new version is meant to generally remain bad while having situational usefulness and also creating a more interesting threat when you're the one facing it. Stop paying attention, and a well-aimed Thumper burst can end your day if you're flying a frigate.


      Lastly is there any estimates you can give on when this version will be released? I don't expect a concrete date but I imagine you know if it will take 6 months or 3 months, or 2 or 1...I am not asking for a promise, just an estimate.[/list][/list][/list][/list]

      :-X
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      Morrokain

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      Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
      « Reply #99 on: December 06, 2016, 11:33:50 AM »

      Yes!! Some notes!! "And it was my best...day...EVER!" (R.I.P Nappa)

      I'm glad to see hullmods are now properly like ship upgrades that can be bought and looted! Could really give exploration a shot in the arm alongside the expanded map and salvage mechanics with some special rare hullmods in the future!

      The A.I changes sound great! I hope the "Eliminate" command works well when the attacking ships are under fighter and drone pressure. It will be needed with the fighter changes. Ideally, since in the blog post on fighters you had commented that fighters inherently need to be weak to avoid balance issues with carriers, ships targeting a carrier with the "Eliminate" command should ignore its fighter attacks completely with the intent on closing the distance as quickly as possible since fighters are unlimited in the long run. Otherwise, I am worried game play will bog down again because ships spend too much time trying to thin the fighter herd to lower the fighter replacement bar than actually kill the source of the threat itself. For some carriers that could be effective, sure, but for others that can replace fighters more quickly for a longer period of time not so much.

      Also loving the codex hint  8)
      +1 to the Discover hint!

      I am also pleased by the flux vent spam nerf. It was too abusable. Is the A.I aware of this penalty too? Not as much of an issue usually, but it would occasionally come up where I see the A.I vent spam.

      With the world so big now, have you done anything to address fuel and supply prices accordingly? I actually kind of felt that they were a tad high before. With things so much bigger I feel I will go bankrupt trying to travel :D

      Great work on this update, I see a lot of things really coming together nicely! I think I say this almost every time but this is my most anticipated release ever!

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      facc00

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      Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
      « Reply #100 on: December 07, 2016, 07:43:49 AM »

      Thanks for the continued work!
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      Dri

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      Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
      « Reply #101 on: December 07, 2016, 10:20:24 AM »

      Alex, could you please share Heavy Mortar stats with us? Damage/flux per shot and OP cost?
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      Alex

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      Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
      « Reply #102 on: December 07, 2016, 10:43:38 AM »

      The A.I changes sound great! I hope the "Eliminate" command works well when the attacking ships are under fighter and drone pressure. It will be needed with the fighter changes. Ideally, since in the blog post on fighters you had commented that fighters inherently need to be weak to avoid balance issues with carriers, ships targeting a carrier with the "Eliminate" command should ignore its fighter attacks completely with the intent on closing the distance as quickly as possible since fighters are unlimited in the long run. Otherwise, I am worried game play will bog down again because ships spend too much time trying to thin the fighter herd to lower the fighter replacement bar than actually kill the source of the threat itself. For some carriers that could be effective, sure, but for others that can replace fighters more quickly for a longer period of time not so much.

      Yeah, actually. One of the properties of "reckless" behavior is ignoring whether you're being flanked or not, which will make ships stop maneuvering to avoid the fighters and they'll just plow through. They'll still try to avoid bombs/torpedoes launched by said fighters, though.


      I am also pleased by the flux vent spam nerf. It was too abusable. Is the A.I aware of this penalty too? Not as much of an issue usually, but it would occasionally come up where I see the A.I vent spam.

      The AI iirc isn't aware of it but then it basically doesn't vent-spam to that degree anyway, so I don't think it'll affect it much except for, say, the Mudskipper Mk.II armed with a Gauss Cannon. And I'm ok with that being sub-optimal :)

      With the world so big now, have you done anything to address fuel and supply prices accordingly? I actually kind of felt that they were a tad high before. With things so much bigger I feel I will go bankrupt trying to travel :D

      I haven't actually done a whole lot of testing here, so: not at this point. I actually like the idea of travel costs being high so that just going somewhere is a risk or at least an investement, but of course the rewards have to be balanced accordingly as well.


      Great work on this update, I see a lot of things really coming together nicely! I think I say this almost every time but this is my most anticipated release ever!

      Thank you!


      Thanks for the continued work!

      Thanks for the continued support :)


      Alex, could you please share Heavy Mortar stats with us? Damage/flux per shot and OP cost?

      700 range, 110 damage for 90 flux, 2 shots per second average (in 2-shot bursts), 7 OP, and the same anemic shot speed as the light mortar (500).
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      Linnis

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      Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
      « Reply #103 on: December 07, 2016, 11:18:24 AM »

      Well the problem is not so much it is a * bad*  weapon. Thumper that is. It's more a budget weapon.

      But there are two problems.
      1. There are small mount weapons that perform way better for cheaper.
      2. There are no expendible ships that can use medium mount other than the hound and Cerberus. But these ships because of shield problem are best fitted with flux intensive weapons.

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      Cik

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      Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
      « Reply #104 on: December 07, 2016, 11:33:33 AM »

      it's bad insofar as

      1. it takes a weapon slot you can use for something else
      2. other weapons are readily available

      if there was a subclass of weapons that were deliberately bad (well, past like the 2 others that are) it would be fine, but as it is it's kind of just garbage no one uses because better things are always available.
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