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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: This is just too much.  (Read 32042 times)

DownTheDrain

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2016, 05:02:24 PM »

I don't think I've ever expected a game in development to constantly ouptut content on a regular schedule whether there is anything "worthwhile" or not.
And such things, I belive are the bane of creativity AND quality.
Your expectations are based on what big name developers and publishers frequently do, and that is not something I'd ever expect any indie dev to put upon themselves.

Games in development usually aren't open to the public to play so they can follow whatever update schedule works best for them, but that whole scenario changes considerably once you put your alpha or beta on the market.

I would also argue that this is precisely what AAA studios with a publisher behind them don't do.
With a few exceptions the big boys only grant access to selected youtubers in a controlled setting for advertising purposes. They might provide an open beta once their game is so far in development that there's not much left to do besides balance changes and a round of polishing or two, but they very rarely let you look under the hood. Early Access models are mostly used by smaller or indie studios, often without a publisher, simply because they need to secure additional funding to be able to finish development.

If anything his or her expectations are probably based on various Steam EA titles.
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xenoargh

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2016, 08:24:12 AM »

Quote from: Alex

(I will say, reading anything regarding "cash grab" and "lazy developer" is bitterly amusing when I consider how much I'm in the hole compared to just getting a regular programming job. To put things in perspective, I'm working off savings - with income from preorders helping to offset the drain, but not entirely - as opposed to doing more responsible things like saving for (eventual) retirement. Not complaining by any means, though, it's a choice I made and I'm happy with it.

But, yeah, if one finds oneself thinking an indie developer is making a "cash grab", this really just isn't the industry for it. I'm not saying it never happens, but 99.9% of the time it's not going to be that. If I simply wanted to grab some cash, a regular job would be so much more time-efficient.)
Exactly.

Keep on truckin', Alex.  I haven't had much time to say stuff around here lately, but I am aware you've made huge gains this update, and this remains the best $10 I've spent on a game, ever.  I've bought a number of copies for others, etc. at this point and I've recommended it countless times.  I can't wait to see this get done-enough to hit Steam, where jaws should drop :)
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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2016, 01:06:17 AM »

Game is coming along nicely, I like checking in every month or two and seeing where it's at, maybe sinking 10-20 hours into a new campaign and then scurrying off again.
It's all going well IMO.
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RyokenMK

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2016, 07:46:51 AM »

I have rarely seen such a ridiculous jackass as the OP of this thread. I am overwhelmed by how unqualified for life you are, man.
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Gothars

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2016, 08:05:29 AM »

@RyokenMK: You've got a PM.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

DownTheDrain

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2016, 01:32:51 PM »

I have rarely seen such a ridiculous jackass as the OP of this thread. I am overwhelmed by how unqualified for life you are, man.

Whereas your delightful contribution significantly improved the thread...?
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2016, 06:00:34 PM »

This thread really ought to be locked. I can't see it going anywhere good from here.
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frogbones

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2016, 06:52:07 PM »

wow....I've been following this game for years......playing it too. but these....buzz words today, such as cash grab, lazy Dev, etc.etc. have been thrown around so much past year or so they've lost pretty much all their weight when being used to prove a point.

I've been playing video games for over 30+yrs. I've seen all manner come, go, fizzle, scam.

I do know this. I know a good game, this is a good game. I knew it was a good game when it was just barely combat...what early 2012? and I INVESTED into this game. I paid my $$, and I played every version to the nub.

I can see parts of the OP's frustration....I've had fleeting bits of it...SO? I'm invested, gladly so. I've invested into many a game, by my choice, understanding what comes with investments...RISK. I never have, never will get pissy, and *** over the internet my frustrations with what ever game I might be upset about......in the end MEH to it all.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2016, 02:10:25 PM »

This thread really ought to be locked. I can't see it going anywhere good from here.

Why should it be locked?

Admittedly the OP lost the plot halfway through his rant (Derek Smart? Really?) but the replies have been perfectly civil.
In fact most replies were outright positive and supportive.
A single abusive poster dropping unrelated insults should only get that poster warned (which apparently happened), not the entire thread locked.

Of course you could argue that everything worth saying has already been said, but this isn't exactly the first time this topic came up, nor will it be the last, so you might as well keep this open and let people reply here instead of starting a new thread yet again.

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Excalibur Bane

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2016, 11:28:40 PM »

This thread really ought to be locked. I can't see it going anywhere good from here.

Why should it be locked?

Admittedly the OP lost the plot halfway through his rant (Derek Smart? Really?) but the replies have been perfectly civil.
In fact most replies were outright positive and supportive.
A single abusive poster dropping unrelated insults should only get that poster warned (which apparently happened), not the entire thread locked.

Of course you could argue that everything worth saying has already been said, but this isn't exactly the first time this topic came up, nor will it be the last, so you might as well keep this open and let people reply here instead of starting a new thread yet again.



As Soren so politely said on Discord, "You took a *** on the forum and nobody liked the smell." Interesting how most seem to have some smart ass remark attacking me, instead of using solid reasoning to dispute any of what i posted. Yes, perfectly civil. A few actually took the time to at least show me some sort shred of decency and come up with some solid points, which was nice. Not most however.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2016, 03:55:01 AM »

This thread really ought to be locked. I can't see it going anywhere good from here.

Why should it be locked?

Admittedly the OP lost the plot halfway through his rant (Derek Smart? Really?) but the replies have been perfectly civil.
In fact most replies were outright positive and supportive.
A single abusive poster dropping unrelated insults should only get that poster warned (which apparently happened), not the entire thread locked.

Of course you could argue that everything worth saying has already been said, but this isn't exactly the first time this topic came up, nor will it be the last, so you might as well keep this open and let people reply here instead of starting a new thread yet again.



As Soren so politely said on Discord, "You took a *** on the forum and nobody liked the smell." Interesting how most seem to have some smart ass remark attacking me, instead of using solid reasoning to dispute any of what i posted. Yes, perfectly civil. A few actually took the time to at least show me some sort shred of decency and come up with some solid points, which was nice. Not most however.

I don't frequent the Discord server so I have no idea what people may or may not have said to you there, I was clearly referring to the thread only.
You conveniently seem to forget that people did address your points, some even agreed. In fact the very first reply you got, from a forum veteran, started out with "It's been like this for many years now, but I don't blame you for feeling that way."
As far as I can tell only a single poster attacked you personally and promptly received a warning for it.

As for disputing your points, that would be a lot easier if your OP was more of a reasonable assertion and less of an angry rant.
Let me highlight a few claims that made it impossible for me to take you seriously.

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another cash grab
A cash grab that loses money? Running for 5+ years? On a fairly obscure forum that only hardcore fans of the genre are likely to even find?

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the hype train has just blown by it with little fan fare
...
given how little thought or effort is put into marketing this game
So now it's a cash grab past its hype that isn't even properly advertised?
You do know that a cash grab, by its very definition, relies on exploiting hype to make quick money, right?

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Battlecruiser 3000AD would be a good comparison, along with Derek Smart.
This is the point where you lost anyone that was still taking this at face value.
Battlecruiser 3000AD was an unplayable mess even long after release, whereas Starsector may be in development forever but is perfectly playable and without major bugs.
Comparing Derek Smart, who is infamous for his attitude and for telling his own customers to go eff themselves, with Alex, one of the nicest and most responsive devs I have ever met, is beyond comical. That's just absurd.

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If I were Fractal, at this point, I would release what is there and done and move on to the next version.
So you'd advise to drop this before completion and release an unfinished game? In other words, you'd want them to pull a belated cash grab?
At this point I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing for anymore.

Look, I can understand that you're angry. Frankly, I'm somewhat annoyed as well and I haven't even been following the development for all that long compared to many other guys here. I completely agree that new versions are taking far too long and that it would probably be more advisable to release smaller incremental updates instead of building anticipation for an entire year. I also agree that this is most likely not a very good way to keep a steady cash flow going, especially since Alex has admitted himself that funding the development of the game loses him money.

Unfortunately your OP is framed in a way that makes it impossible to agree with you even though I share some of your concerns. You heaped up so many accusations, insults and demonstrably false claims that I'm rather surprised how level-headed the majority of replies have been.
So yeah, some of your points are valid in my opinion, but the way you worded them is not. If you think I lack decency for pointing that out then so be it.
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CaptainWinky

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2016, 08:04:06 AM »

For $15 I've gotten more hours of fun than I can count, and the game's still being improved.  Compare this to, say, No Man's Sky, which cost four times as much and the lead dev slunk into a hole somewhere after lying to everybody he sold the game to.  If Alex has any future cash grabs in mind after this one I'm on board.
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Excalibur Bane

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2016, 08:30:20 AM »

Sorry, but I'm not going to quote and unquote the mess that is your post to all hell, because I'm simply too lazy this morning, but I will address a few points. Firstly, your making some pretty wild assumptions on what I intended with my OP, not to mention your taking most of it out of context and not even properly quoting it.

I did say a few were pretty decent, including the first from a forum veteran. That was nice, yes. Even your reply is at least somewhat decent, no matter how badly distorted it is.

I would hardly call it an angry rant, believe me, if it was an angry rant, it would be far less civil.

I can call it a cash grab quite easily, there are no sales figures available and while Alex claims to be working on it everyday, I very much doubt it. Not for 5+ years at least. It would be considerably more complete and complex at this stage. On the other hand, I will concede one thing, having programmed an intranet for the government using java, it is without a doubt one of the worst programming languages out there, period. No idea why it was chosen as the basis for this game. So I can imagine it's slowing development down considerably.

You completely, and utterly missed the point as to why I brought up Derek Smart and Battlecruiser. They are similar because both developers seem to think it's still cool to go lonewolf on game development, and the whole mess smacks of pride, due to the refusal to get any additional help to speed up the project, also because both games attempted to throw everything in the game but the kitchen sink before releasing it and attempting to make everything perfect. The result was less then impressive, as you said when it comes to Battlecruiser and I don't see it resulting in anything better here. The reference has nothing to do with his attitude towards the community, or anything other then what I stated above.

Not sure what this belated cash grab is, I can only assume sarcasm. I was referring to releasing the current version such as it is, rather then wait until god knows when to give us something else to play with. I wasn't referring to releasing the entire game right this second, but the current version he is working on. That's right, the current version that he's writing about in all these blog posts, which I'm sure is playable at this point. It's fast approaching a year since the community saw any new builds.

Beyond that, excusing the lack of updates on "Oh, this is the indie game industry!" is hilarious. Really? Fascinating stuff, it's good to know that indie game developers are held to lower standards then those in the "regular" game industry, and that there is zero accountability, let's just all keep our fingers crossed that one of these years, we'll eventually have a new build to toy with. Let's just hope that whatever current OS is out by then, that it still supports Java.

But at the end of the day, it's Alex's perogative when and how to release new builds. This topic or anything contained within is unlikely to change anything, my OP was just giving my opinion and thoughts, which last time I checked I'm allowed to do this in this place. At least for now.

If nothing else, this lovely little thread is wonderful amusement to go with my morning coffee.






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Grievous69

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #73 on: December 02, 2016, 09:32:46 AM »

Dude, you have other games, you have internet, you have a life (I assume). Surely there are other things you can sink your time into until the next update comes out. I assure you everyone on this forum is eagerly waiting for the update (or patch notes at least) to come out. Be patient mate :)
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Please don't take me too seriously.

DownTheDrain

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Re: This is just too much.
« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2016, 11:55:19 AM »

If nothing else, this lovely little thread is wonderful amusement to go with my morning coffee.

Well, I'm glad I amuse you.
I especially like the dismissive tone, the complaint about wild assumptions when your OP was nothing but, and the fact that you accuse me of misquoting and taking things out of context when you couldn't be bothered to quote at all and attribute arguments to me that I never made.

Good talk.
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