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[Alex]

Huh. That surprises me - I would have thought that heavy kinetics would be able to pound the shield into submission, especially with the flux pool reduction. Still, if it works then it works.

It does definitely depend on how the Dominator is fitted out.

thats going to be Soon^TM, I'm guessing?

Isn't everything?

More speed fits the bill but I'm still of the opinion it lacks punch for its cost. Not to delve too much into Mods but the BRDY Nevermore is nimble and has all medium mounts (much like an Aurora) but it has the built-in cannon that is a great finisher. Speed and positioning counts for a lot but if I want a finisher, I have go Reapers/AM Blasters on most/all those synergy mounts. When finishers are limited to small missile mounts (or a Typhoon), ammo becomes the prohibitive factor. In big fleet engagements (the only kind of battle I'd deploy an Aurora in for its cost), unless I have missile spec 10, I know I've got about 5-6 shots on capitals and that's it.

I'm willing to give the Plasma Jets a try and see how it feels though. If it's fast enough to get in/out without getting itself in too much trouble, it will be death by a thousand papercuts on the big ships.

AM Blaster is always an option, too.

Really, though, if we're talking about burst damage, the Aurora has no trouble getting a set of weapons that max out its flux quickly. So it's either that or missiles for high-alpha; a heavier weapon mount wouldn't necessarily add "punch" without more flux stats to support it.

[FooF]

I guess I look at say, an Autopulse, and think to myself "very efficient DPS/flux and good alpha-strike potential." Or a High-Intensity Laser and think "has good HE damage that isn't ammo dependent." The Large energy weapons (outside of the Plasma Cannon) are much more flux efficient than Heavy Blasters or Mining Lasers. Pulse Lasers and Phase Lances are efficient but need time to do damage. That's what I mean by "punch."

The large mount isn't necessary per se, it's that the available high-burst medium energy weapons are very flux inefficient (by design). The large weapons are more efficient and/or have specialized damage which is why stats don't necessarily have to change because efficiency goes way up. However, they add in the wrinkle of extended range which is against the design goals you've stated.

[Megas]

I would love to have that heavy energy mount just to have that 700 range.  600 range for a cruiser seems lame.

[SweetMango]

Well, I don't agree with other people.
I think Aurora already has enough firepower and flux dissipation rate compare to other cruisers.
In my test combat, it was strong enough to beat a conquest battlecruiser in proper AI's hand and skills.
Aurora's short firing range and slow speed are just appropriate costs for those strong points.

My Aurora and character

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And the simulation result

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[Cik]

i'm not sure if "beat an un-officered conquest" is really an accolade, to be honest

also that variant seems rather weak

put some sabots, harpoons or other good missiles on it and it would probably kill you(?) i mean, once your shield's cracked you're about 5 seconds from death assuming you're in weapons range, aren't you?

i've never piloted an aurora, tbh

[SweetMango]

How about this?
unofficered and autopiloted. My flagship is an unequipped harbinger.

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[woodsmoke]

I think he was referring to the Conquest build. If memory serves that's one of the default variants, which... isn't terrible, but it's certainly leaving a lot of firepower on the table. Though I suppose the AI pretty well only flies with vanilla variants (sans mods, anyway), so.

[Wyvern]

The large weapons are more efficient and/or have specialized damage which is why stats don't necessarily have to change because efficiency goes way up.
However, they add in the wrinkle of extended range which is against the design goals you've stated.

Do they?  I'm not so sure - if we're putting the large mount at the rear of the ship, how much of its range is going to be eaten up just by having to traverse the vessel's length before getting anywhere?

Admittedly, you could do a bit of kiting with a longer-range large energy by rotating the ship to bring the large turret to bear on the target - but at that point you're giving up the firepower of your entire forward weapon array, so I don't really see this as a big problem.  If it is, though, maybe shift the mount to a more central location and only allow it to fire in a comparatively narrow forward arc; poof, problem solved.

I'd be in favor of giving the Aurora such a weapon mount if it's losing the HEF ship system.

[Midnight Kitsune]

I'd be in favor of giving the Aurora such a weapon mount if it's losing the HEF ship system.

Agreed, especially since it is losing 3K capacity and HEF, pigeonholing it more (to me at least) into the SO and or AM blaster builds. And to make matters worse, it still has the old 180, .8 DMG/Flux Omni shields so it will do less damage, overload faster and most likely be picked off if used by the AI since it LOVES to just spam its mobility systems and get itself stranded in the middle of the enemy fleet with no back up and no mobility system to get it out. (Unless of course this got fixed)

Also, I see you're getting "inspiration" Blackrock again Alex. Those Plasma jets remind me alot of the Nevermore's ship system

[FooF]

Do they?  I'm not so sure - if we're putting the large mount at the rear of the ship, how much of its range is going to be eaten up just by having to traverse the vessel's length before getting anywhere?

Admittedly, you could do a bit of kiting with a longer-range large energy by rotating the ship to bring the large turret to bear on the target - but at that point you're giving up the firepower of your entire forward weapon array, so I don't really see this as a big problem.  If it is, though, maybe shift the mount to a more central location and only allow it to fire in a comparatively narrow forward arc; poof, problem solved.

I'd be in favor of giving the Aurora such a weapon mount if it's losing the HEF ship system.

When playtesting with my own variant, I did notice that a good chunk of range gets mitigated by the length of the ship. I don't know how that translates in actual range loss (maybe 30?). Losing the HEF system, paradoxically, also removes some of the "punch" I was hoping for in a re-balance. With it, you could argue that the medium mounts were more efficient during those bursts but without HEF, I agree: a large mount would not seem too excessive.

Honestly, the asymmetry of the ship doesn't bother me too much save for the fact the current rear medium mount has limited opportunity to be useful. If a large mount was more centrally located and had a narrow arc, that's fine but the sprite model doesn't accommodate that very easily.

Edit: Blackrock has a ton of maneuverability systems and those were themselves inspired by the maneuvering jets of Eagles/Falcons, etc. I don't see it as a big deal.

I hadn't thought of the new proposed changes as pigeon-holing the Aurora into SO builds, etc. Using more conventional arms, you'll be able to retreat better to vent and then come back again. It will be more active than say a hull that can just shield tank. I'm still of the opinion that a large mount with Alex's proposed plans would be great but I'll withhold judgement until I can play with it. That being said, I could try modding Alex's proposed changes into some of my variants and see how it feels. Alternatively, a Tri-Tach variant akin to the XIV Hegemony ships that throws in a large mount would be a nice compromise. :wink wink:

[Aeson]

When playtesting with my own variant, I did notice that a good chunk of range gets mitigated by the length of the ship. I don't know how that translates in actual range loss (maybe 30?).

I'm not positive, but I think that each pixel in the sprite is 1 range unit long. An Aurora's sprite is 280 pixels long, so a mount two thirds of the way towards the back of the ship which is shooting at something directly ahead of the ship should effectively lose ~187 range.

[Dri]

Almost every Aurora build should have the Front Shield Emitter hullmod, seriously.

[TJJ]

Almost every Aurora build should have the Front Shield Emitter hullmod, seriously.

I resent having to pay OP to make the ship situationally worse.

[Megas]

Almost every Aurora build should have the Front Shield Emitter hullmod, seriously.

I was really disappointed ever since Aurora lost 360 shields just to differentiate from the Apogee more.  If anything, Apogee should get shield nerf instead of Aurora since Aurora is the dedicated combat ship.  Since then, Front Shield Generator to get them back has been an OP tax for the Aurora.

[Megas]

One more thing about firepower.  Eagle can be built to use three blasters, along with medium kinetics for assault.  It is hard but doable.  Now, Aurora will lose high-energy focus and some flux capacity.  Basically, Aurora will be a slightly easier-to-use but more expensive version of the blaster Eagle.