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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?  (Read 14476 times)

Cik

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2016, 11:38:52 AM »

C&D?

close and destroy?
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Thaago

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2016, 11:41:41 AM »

I'm very happy to hear about 'eliminate'. It sounds like it will pair nicely with the carrier mechanics in that we can force a ship to really engage the carrier (at the risk of damage, of course) if we really need it.

I suspect reckless Lashers will become a new favorite of mine.
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Cik

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2016, 11:57:10 AM »

maybe i will actually be able to get fighters to swarm things again

btw that's going to happen right because now they insist on standing off and being useless. it's not like heavy maulers actually care about range anymore  :'(

also thunders are still broken, while i remember. can we get a fix for that?

they used to fire their harpoons when something overloaded, resulting in a massive distributed alpha strike. they just fire them uselessly into shields now though and it makes them not great.

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Alex

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2016, 12:18:22 PM »

How does it feel fighting a reckless officer? Is it easy to bait and kill them in single combat, or only in a fleet context? Ha, it would be crazy if you could somehow provoke enemies and turn them reckless. Like a taunt skill or something.

With the caveat that I haven't spent *that* much time playing around with this:

They stay on you much more, so if it's a pather or otherwise a faster ship, you may be in real trouble in a 1-1 unless you can outmuscle them.

In a fleet context, lone reckless officers in fast ships would get picked off pretty easily. Many combined, though, would be much more effective and possibly a harder challenge than other personalities.


BTW, is "search&destroy" still the best name for what it does? Seems like something like "Rout the Enemy" would be more self-explanatory, no?  Or just "Full assault" or "all-out attack". Or whatever the proper military term for "mopping up" is.

Good point; renamed it to "Full Assault!", to go with the "Full Retreat!". Especially considering that there's a "Search & Destroy" ship order that doesn't cause this kind of behavior.


maybe i will actually be able to get fighters to swarm things again

btw that's going to happen right because now they insist on standing off and being useless. it's not like heavy maulers actually care about range anymore  :'(

also thunders are still broken, while i remember. can we get a fix for that?

they used to fire their harpoons when something overloaded, resulting in a massive distributed alpha strike. they just fire them uselessly into shields now though and it makes them not great.

There was an extensive balancing pass on fighters and many changes to their AI.

That said, Thunders still fire off their Harpoons early, but this isn't necessarily bad, as they can quickly refit to get them back. A wing of Thunders can be an endless supply of Harpoons.
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Cik

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2016, 01:31:55 PM »

oy alex

when are we getting sabot armed bombers :^)
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Alex

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2016, 01:36:13 PM »

Longbows have a sabot and are now classed as bombers :)
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Gothars

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2016, 02:05:29 PM »

In a fleet context, lone reckless officers in fast ships would get picked off pretty easily. Many combined, though, would be much more effective and possibly a harder challenge than other personalities.

That makes me want to fight the occasional fleet that is on "Full Assault" from the get-go :) Would be awesome if it would be connected to the campaign layer in some way, like them having a special grudge against you because of previous actions. Or it could be triggered by a special environmental condition, like the extra time pressure of fighting in a solar flare.


Thanks once again for listening to you fans Alex, I'm really looking forward to the games future ;D
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Alex

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2016, 02:24:39 PM »

That makes me want to fight the occasional fleet that is on "Full Assault" from the get-go :) Would be awesome if it would be connected to the campaign layer in some way, like them having a special grudge against you because of previous actions. Or it could be triggered by a special environmental condition, like the extra time pressure of fighting in a solar flare.

Yeah, was thinking along similar lines - well, not exactly, but more that it's neat to have battles differ in how the AI behaves.


Thanks once again for listening to you fans Alex, I'm really looking forward to the games future ;D

Hah, was just thinking how I'm grateful for the feedback and ideas and just in general people caring enough to want to offer that. Definitely not something I take for granted! And it really does improve the game a great deal.
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Cik

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2016, 02:31:03 PM »

now that i think about it, there's a great deal of potential in this sort of global behavior.

perhaps the AI already has it under the hood, but an AI that selects from a list of behaviors, independently (or maybe dependent on the fleet commander's disposition and level)

might give some more variety and unpredictability to fighting fleets in campaign. especially if it can be given on a group-by-group basis, for instance.

battlegroup 1 is a formation of dominators, an onslaught and a destroyer or two, then they form a line and engage

battlegroup 2 is a group of wolves, set to skirmishy behavior

battlegroup 3 are missile/carriers and they are set to hang behind group 1 and provide opportunistic support.

i know grouping is a thing, but can you actually give orders by group? i admit i've never tested it.

theoretically it seems interesting though i have no idea if the work is worth it. ah well.
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woodsmoke

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2016, 03:48:08 PM »

And reckless captains will be great for pursuit ships.

Actually, this is where I have problem with whole personality idea. You have just 10 Captains -> you can't afford specialized ones for pursuit, they need to perform well in any situation you throw at them.
Or at least scenarios that really matter, like surviving as long as possible against overwhelming enemy fleet.
Which means only Steady or preferably Cautious officers are fit for my fleet.

Speaking of, I don't suppose there's any chance we may be getting more officer slots in a future update?

I won't be heartbroken if the answer is no - just having officers in the first place already had a pretty significant effect on how the game is played; combining an officer in every ship with the ubermensch factor of the player's involvement would probably make things positively silly.

Still, a guy can dream. :D
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Dri

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2016, 03:53:38 PM »

The number of officers you can have is going to be tied to some sort of Leadership skill. Now as to whether or not a max rank in that skill will let you exceed 10 officers, who knows?
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Alex

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2016, 04:08:07 PM »

I think I might've mentioned it before somewhere (probably in the officer blog post or the comments?); 10 is likely to be the top-end number with the relevant skill(s) maxed.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2016, 04:53:48 PM »

I think I might've mentioned it before somewhere (probably in the officer blog post or the comments?); 10 is likely to be the top-end number with the relevant skill(s) maxed.
How will that work out though with easy and extra officer starts?
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Alex

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2016, 05:17:52 PM »

Didn't say you'd start with that value at 0 :)
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Is there a way to improve player combat AI?
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2016, 05:38:40 PM »

Didn't say you'd start with that value at 0 :)
So it it like a skill bonus then? IE if you hit such and such leadership skill to like 5 then you get five officer slots?
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