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News: New blog post: Economy & Outposts (9/19/17); Starsector 0.8.1a is out!
 
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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering v.0.9.6  (Read 76387 times)
Hussar
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« Reply #210 on: May 14, 2017, 11:15:12 PM »

In short, yeah. It's balanced against vanilla, it checks in against vanilla balance where it departs, and balance is important to me.

That said, it's not THI; it has some treats, outliers, and flaws.

Of course and that's what makes it great. I almost lost my kobra early game to 2 LP hounds playing ball together. So it is balanced Smiley
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Dudley Dickerson
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« Reply #211 on: May 16, 2017, 04:44:00 AM »

Really loving everything about this mod and can't wait to see more.
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Jojo_195
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« Reply #212 on: May 16, 2017, 09:22:22 PM »

Mod gives me an exception:null error when I try to play a mission. Don't know if normal campaign is bugged too.
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Morbo513
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« Reply #213 on: May 16, 2017, 09:38:33 PM »

Yeah, this faction is great. I used the mod in 0.72, but never got round to playing as them in Nex. Though I've not yet fully experienced all its content, the only thing I'd say needs addressing is the power of the Voltigeurs ASMs. While a missile good for anti-shield work was sorely needed (cause let's face it, the Sabot sucks hard), I feel like these do it too well - a salvo from two launchers will put almost any frigate over the limit even without skills, or close enough that they can be sent the rest of the way to overload with a second or two of fire from one ship, or a second salvo before it's had time to retreat and vent. They also do strong damage to hull/armour for their OP, size and the fact they're meant to be kinetic, making them extremely potent all-purpose weapons. I think there's nothing wrong with its versatility or power, but it needs a bump up in OP to compensate imo - for 4-5 OP the vanilla options for missiles are pissweak - swarmers, annihilators; at 5, Sabots and Harpoons (The latter of which is very effective but also very limited ammo-wise). I think 7 or even 8 may be appropriate.
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Soren
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« Reply #214 on: May 16, 2017, 09:59:53 PM »

Mod gives me an exception:null error when I try to play a mission. Don't know if normal campaign is bugged too.

Caught and emergency patched, try redownloading - unless it's not the Goose Chase mission, but another? I didn't touch missions more than the minimum this update, so if I screwed up a different one, let me know.

Yeah, this faction is great. I used the mod in 0.72, but never got round to playing as them in Nex. Though I've not yet fully experienced all its content, the only thing I'd say needs addressing is the power of the Voltigeurs ASMs. While a missile good for anti-shield work was sorely needed (cause let's face it, the Sabot sucks hard), I feel like these do it too well - a salvo from two launchers will put almost any frigate over the limit even without skills, or close enough that they can be sent the rest of the way to overload with a second or two of fire from one ship, or a second salvo before it's had time to retreat and vent. They also do strong damage to hull/armour for their OP, size and the fact they're meant to be kinetic, making them extremely potent all-purpose weapons. I think there's nothing wrong with its versatility or power, but it needs a bump up in OP to compensate imo - for 4-5 OP the vanilla options for missiles are pissweak - swarmers, annihilators; at 5, Sabots and Harpoons (The latter of which is very effective but also very limited ammo-wise). I think 7 or even 8 may be appropriate.

First, thank you.

Second, yeah I've taken a whack at Voltigeur balance - they now have more time between shots, more time between salvoes, and act as more of a pressure weapon. I agree they're not quite right still; I think you're right about needing an OP bump up to 5/12 for the small and med.
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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Jojo_195
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« Reply #215 on: May 16, 2017, 10:40:45 PM »

I tried all three missions actually and none worked.
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Soren
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« Reply #216 on: May 16, 2017, 10:44:20 PM »

Okay, I would imagine they're calling variants no longer in vanilla Starsector, then. I will get on that shortly, probably late tonight/tomorrow.

In the mean time, the campaign does work.
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Wyvern
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« Reply #217 on: May 16, 2017, 10:59:41 PM »

Today's amusing thing: a Chamois mining rig armed with Trident bombers... and not much else.  Made for a surprisingly effective bit of support during the early game, when you still end up just throwing together whatever you have.
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Morbo513
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« Reply #218 on: May 16, 2017, 11:24:52 PM »

Yeah, this faction is great. I used the mod in 0.72, but never got round to playing as them in Nex. Though I've not yet fully experienced all its content, the only thing I'd say needs addressing is the power of the Voltigeurs ASMs. While a missile good for anti-shield work was sorely needed (cause let's face it, the Sabot sucks hard), I feel like these do it too well - a salvo from two launchers will put almost any frigate over the limit even without skills, or close enough that they can be sent the rest of the way to overload with a second or two of fire from one ship, or a second salvo before it's had time to retreat and vent. They also do strong damage to hull/armour for their OP, size and the fact they're meant to be kinetic, making them extremely potent all-purpose weapons. I think there's nothing wrong with its versatility or power, but it needs a bump up in OP to compensate imo - for 4-5 OP the vanilla options for missiles are pissweak - swarmers, annihilators; at 5, Sabots and Harpoons (The latter of which is very effective but also very limited ammo-wise). I think 7 or even 8 may be appropriate.

First, thank you.

Second, yeah I've taken a whack at Voltigeur balance - they now have more time between shots, more time between salvoes, and act as more of a pressure weapon. I agree they're not quite right still; I think you're right about needing an OP bump up to 5/12 for the small and med.
I think for 5 OP, you could make a variant that fires 2 missiles per salvo rather than 3, and with 10 shots total. That'd bring them more in line with other missile weapons of the same OP value, but still at the very top end. The current 15(?) shot, 3-missile salvo version could serve as an intermediary between the medium launcher for a higher cost (Again, recommending 7-9OP) - for those who are especially fond of their missiles, they'd have to sacrifice the potency of weapons in the other mounts (or flux capacity/dissipation) or forego them entirely to fit a pair on a Wolf for example; Disclaimer, I have been using them on vanilla ships (With the loadout design skill). If these numbers don't make sense on the faction's ships I understand, maybe slightly buffing their OP could compensate.
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Soren
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« Reply #219 on: May 16, 2017, 11:34:01 PM »

I'm going with a minor bump and cutting the small's ammo to 12 for now; I'm not ruling out future redesign, though. I appreciate that you've taken the time to give detailed feedback; I do read it and consider it.

I don't test ships or weapons with skills; all balance is done around level 0. Loadout design is a good skill; the benefit is just that: being able to fit more and more powerful weapons.

Fixed missions (it was simple and dumb), some minor balance: get it >HERE<
0.9.5a - Patch and polish.

- Ripper and Raker rebalanced (again) - higher damage, slightly slower firing.
- Autolaser and Microlaser fire rates increased, added charges; should compete better with the Hybrid Blaster for your medium energy slots.
- Modular Voltigeur OP costs increased to 5/12.
- Fixed bugged missions.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 05:43:41 PM by Soren » Logged

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Jojo_195
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« Reply #220 on: May 16, 2017, 11:50:55 PM »

Thanks! Will try it out at once!

P.S.: Why not put a "Nostromo" or a "SULACO" class ship in the game?
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Soren
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« Reply #221 on: May 16, 2017, 11:56:18 PM »

Thanks! Will try it out at once!

Embarrassingly easy fix, once I took a look. And I figured that people who don't communicate on the forum would appreciate it.

P.S.: Why not put a "Nostromo" or a "SULACO" class ship in the game?

Doesn't really fit; the homages in the mod so far are ones I felt fit thematically.
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Ali
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« Reply #222 on: May 17, 2017, 12:06:35 PM »

gettin fast quite attached to this mod!! Cheesy

only thing i noticed so far, is it intended that the micro lasers on the snow goose only target missile's n not fighters?
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Soren
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« Reply #223 on: May 17, 2017, 12:14:20 PM »

They do have the PD_ONLY tag, so, yes, very much intentional.

I am thinking it might be time to remove it, though, with the increased power of fighters in 0.8.
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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
Hussar
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« Reply #224 on: May 18, 2017, 06:58:06 AM »

Heh, in 0.72 I was making my Kormorans so OP (360 accelerated hardened shields, range mods and more - a whole list xD ) - in 0.8? Not really.

But it is still strong Smiley



I love the 3 centaline twin accelerator gun setup. It's pretty. Plus it can fight multiple targets at once, or... Kite things like that Onslaught. I bet the sindrian admiral was thinking "we got 'em! they're like deer caught in a headlights" or something.

Lol.

They were trying to get me so hard that I kept kitin' them till half of their destroyer and cruiser cover on the flanks crumbled so carriers sent out my damseflies over to give them good news (they were flux locked anyway, the twin accelerator's are really good at that haha). And that was pretty much it, skipjeted it and switched to the offensive with the hybrid blaster Tongue

Edit: the only annoyance are occasional drones and fighters with ion cannons... So I guess there's some room for changes as they can be annoying disabling all the center PD batteries (engines are insulated for both campaign and battle reasons  tho). Oh well Cheesy
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 07:11:23 AM by Hussar » Logged
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