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[AxleMC131]

Man, I know it's a little past its time, but I just spent the evening reading through this post and found it both wildly entertaining and incredibly informative. I'm well aware a lot of this is going to become [possibly] irrelevant in 0.8, but I thoroughly enjoyed the read and I'm hoping @HELMUT that you'll have another one addressing fighters and new/updated ships once the update is released! 

(Shout-out to King Alfonzo who pointed me towards this post)

[hawkeye]

Man, I know it's a little past its time, but I just spent the evening reading through this post and found it both wildly entertaining and incredibly informative. I'm well aware a lot of this is going to become [possibly] irrelevant in 0.8, but I thoroughly enjoyed the read and I'm hoping @HELMUT that you'll have another one addressing fighters and new/updated ships once the update is released! 

(Shout-out to King Alfonzo who pointed me towards this post)

I concur. This thread was my GOTO when first learning to play. I kept it up while playing.
Since there aren't any good wiki's for the game, updating this thread would be fantastic.

[Dri]

There is in fact a good wiki: http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Starsector_Wiki

Or maybe our definition of "good" is different? Bear in mind that the wiki I linked above has received some serious TLC recently!

[TheWetFish]

There is in fact a good wiki: http://starsector.wikia.com/wiki/Starsector_Wiki

Or maybe our definition of "good" is different? Bear in mind that the wiki I linked above has received some serious TLC recently!

If it's fine with HELMUT then I'm fine with bulk adding his notes into the various wiki pages

Edit: Oh wow this is old.  Still, a lot of it is broadly applicable and and updated list would make an excellent wiki addition

[Serenitis]

One of the things I've noticed since OP boosts and optimised assembly went away, is that it seems much harder to outfit some larger ships with useful loadouts.

For the most part frigates are unaffected as you can fill them with guns and vents, and still throw a handful of hullmods on them.
Destroyers are a bit tighter but can still manage useful loadouts, with a few exceptions.
Cruisers are in a bad place. Thier hullmods are so expensive compared to thier OP limits without any kind of meaningful boost, they can usually only fit a single hullmod unless you give up other things which you generally can't afford to do without.
Capitals have the same problem as cruisers, but it doesn't feel quite as restrictive given thier more generous OP pools. On the other hand, even with full mobility mods they are dull and uninteresting to fly.

Dominator and Enforcer in particular are ships which I've had problems trying to outfit in a manner that is either tolerable to fly myself or isn't an AI deathtrap, as neither can afford a 'safe' loadout.
Enforcer got hit p. hard in this last balance pass, and I've stopped using them as AI support ships entirely now as they just don't survive any kind of combat any more as they can't fit useful weapons and all the mods it needs to not be a liability. It's still an okay flagship, but you can't be anywhere near as aggressive with it as you could before.
Dominator is a ship that absolutely requires mobility mods to be useful. But it can't really afford them without giving up other things it needs in order to be useful.

tl;dr
Frigates are still too easy to 'max out'.
Most destroyers are okay and give you some balanced choices to consider, except Enforcer who has become the blind old sheepdog dog of SS.
Cruisers and Capitals can't be 'maxed out' at all now (maybe a good thing), but have impossible choices that render them frustrating to use (not so good).

[Gothars]

it seems much harder to outfit some larger ships with useful loadouts.

Are you sure you meant "useful" and not "put on the best of everything"? I find it quite easy to equip ships with everything they need to work in a given role, and usually have OP left over for a few extras.

[Midnight Kitsune]

it seems much harder to outfit some larger ships with useful loadouts.

Are you sure you meant "useful" and not "put on the best of everything"? I find it quite easy to equip ships with everything they need to work in a given role, and usually have OP left over for a few extras.

You don't count Gothars! Not after what you did to that poor Onslaught captain with that Buffalo Mk. II!

[Serenitis]

This has been my Dominator experience so far:

Spoiler

Primary failing: It is lacking in maneuverability even with the constant zero-flux boost from SO and Evasive Action 1, and has trouble lining up on targets blessed with the gift of movement.

I could swap out blast doors for aux thrusters, but then it would be literally bleeding crew every time it did it's job as an anger magnet.
I could also swap SO for UI, aux. thrusters and something else, but then I lose the dissipation to free-fire all guns, and I lose rotation speed boost even with the extra thrusters as it is then tied to flux for maneuverability.
I could lose the torpedoes and run guns only but then I lose a significant fraction of the punch this thing has, and the ability to overload targets that are edging thier flux caps by flickering shields to dissipate and fire. (Plus missiles are the funnest weapons.)
I could lose the vulcans to free up more OP, but the fixed forward shields mean and lack of maneuverability means that without rear PD the Dominator regularly suffers from a terminal case of missile suppository syndrome.
I could swap the vulcans for MGs, but would only be a gain of 4 OP in return for a vastly less effective PD screen.
I could swap the devastators for something smaller, but that would mean giving up PD shotguns and splash damage for either mark 9s (and swap the autos for LAGs, which is a poor loadout that struggles with anything with actual armour) or hellbores (which are not bad, but need the autos downgrading to singles and the mortars removing in order to fit thrusters, but you still lose your main PD screen which is painful).
The lateral guns could really do with being upgraded to LAGs, but there isn't enough OP. Mortars aren't really fast enough to reliably hit frigates and fighters.
The forward smalls would be better as railguns for the extra penetration and range, but autocannons are adequate.
Standard flaks are fine and do everything I need them to.
ITU would be useful, but not useful enough to warrant the extra hassle of constantly replacing crew by swapping with doors.
Flux capacity is down a bit due to the (D)elightful mods, but repairing it for an extra 1000 cap is not worth the loss of the deployment/maint. bonus. I don't care about the other damage mods at all. If I could pick a single mod to repair that would not be a problem. (I don't think that will ever be a thing though.)

In the end, the compromise I ended up with was:



Which loses penetration and range on it's forward turrets in exchange for a boost in PD coverage and enough reduction in weapon flux to swap vents for thrusters.
It's still not as dangerous as an 'old' Domi, it feels much more vulnerable and doesn't have all the caps and QoL mods that it's 0.7 counterpart has.
It is not awful, but requires being closer to targets to be effective than I usually like to get. A mediocre but functional ship.
Hardly the 'best' of anything let alone everything.

I am however still looking for all these OP I'm supposed to have left over for extras.

[close]

[Cik]

it is almost like you have to make tradeoffs instead of just having a perfect, invincible ship or something

wew

[Dri]

Put 3 Light Needlers in the front 3 slots on yer Dominator. So good.

[Gothars]

This has been my Dominator experience so far:

I am however still looking for all these OP I'm supposed to have left over for extras.

Well, I said enough OP for a given role, not mutiple roles.

You seem to want it to be an
- "anger magnet" (Blast Doors),
- fighter and missile killer (with the Devastators)
- and capital ship killer (Reapers)

in one. You also want the luxury of never having to vent.
And then you put all these demands on the shoulders of a D-hull.

I'd recommend to think of your fleet more holistic, with every ship having a clear role, or maybe two if there's good synergy between them.  It's really fun when your ships need and support each other, and in my experience the fleet as a whole is more effective that way.

You don't count Gothars! Not after what you did to that poor Onslaught captain with that Buffalo Mk. II!

Wow man, that's ancient history, I can't believe someone still remembers

[SCC]

I'd recommend to think of your fleet more holistic, with every ship having a clear role, or maybe two if there's good synergy between them.  It's really fun when your ships need and support each other, and in my experience the fleet as a whole is more effective that way.

I'm quite adept in SS by now, as well as outfitting ships, but I'm hopelessly making almost every ship an all-rounder: unless it's something very outstanding, it's supposed to kill ships by itself, without support, though I end up mostly with anvils (?) with probably only flagship being a hammer. I'm not sure, because my fleet kills thing on its own as well... And not having hammers has changed because carriers are very easily made into hammers. I'd still use somebody to tell me which ships for what should I make...

Wow man, that's ancient history, I can't believe someone still remembers

I remember that something happened, but don't exactly remember what. Cheers!

[Megas]

I would use Devastators on SO Dominator not for PD (although it does a decent job of that in a pinch), but for excellent flux efficiency and damage ratio, and with SO range limit choking the range of most of the shells to more or less the same range, Devastator becomes much more reliable as a short-range assault weapon.  I put HMGs in the mediums for shield breaking and more DPS against hull.

The point of Light Needlers on Dominator is range, and Safety Override guts that.  Might as well use Light Autocannons if LMGs are insufficient.  Save your precious Light Needlers for ships that really need them for the range.

[Dri]

So what are your top pick ships for each size class, Megas? You still think Hyperion is king of frigates? Drover for destoyers?

[Megas]

@ Dri:  That question is tricky for me to answer because carriers are flat-out better than non-carriers individually, but it may be a good idea to have some non-carriers tank for carriers in your fleet.  Also, availability of ships and weapons is a concern.  Having the best ship is not much help if it is too hard to get the ship or weapons.

Hyperion is probably still the best frigate as a special playership.  I doubt AI can be trusted with Hyperion with mining blasters; that is asking for it to overload and die.  For everyday use?  Probably Tempest thanks to the drone.  SO Lasher with machine guns is still good for cheap stuff early in the game.  Destroyer? Drover.  But if you need a simple brawler, probably Hammerhead.  Solid all-around and can use low-grade weapons effectively.  Medusa might be better against some things if you can get the weapons.  Cruiser?  Probably Heron if you can kite with it, Mora if cannot rely on it to kite (and must tank instead).  For brawling, Dominator and Eagle are still good.  Aurora is really powerful now, but you must hit-and-run with it due to short range and speed; it cannot kite at all.  Falcon is in a better place today.  Capitals? Astral if your character is built for carriers, Paragon with beams otherwise.  If you do not have enough beams for Paragon, Legion or Onslaught may be good.

P.S.  Carriers cannot be ordered to capture points.  You need non-carriers to obey such orders if you use them.