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Author Topic: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)  (Read 19841 times)

Azmond

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2016, 12:24:14 AM »

Do whatever (loophole abuse) it takes to win.

Not much to win in a game like this. Then again, it's comparable to something like Camping, or Cheesing an AI in a game too.  So, meh. To each his own. Personally, I sometimes get frustrated with iron-mode. And often have two games. A game where I can just wreck people's crap and have fun- save-scumming when I take a signigifanct hit if I feel so inclined -and basically just playing it as I feel i want to.

and then an Iron-mode where I try to "Git Gud" and beat my own personal record for not rage-quiting. :P
Yes, sometimes, I have quit out of frustration with my own stupidity. yaaay videea games!
But, that is off topic.

so... On the topic at hand.
I'd say it's to have a better sense of control or understanding of how the mechanic works and influencing it in some feasible way.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 12:25:47 AM by Azmond »
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Tartiflette

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2016, 01:22:28 AM »

Optimizing your gameplay is one thing, but using any exploit and loophole is just an excuse for cheating. If it's not intended to be played like that, then you should use a command and dodge the tedious part altogether.
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Kaucukovnik

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2016, 01:39:16 AM »

I consider save-scumming via reloading a previously saved game from a menu within the game a perfectly legitimate strategy, and not cheating.

There is only you and your computer, and the PC doesn't care the least bit. And whether you savescum or summon the ship via console, you are not playing the way you were meant to be in either case, you are playing the way you want to.
Quote
...unfun...
Or are you?  ;)

I personally prefer to edit the config file for 50% boarding chance and just fire away.
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Megas

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2016, 07:36:26 AM »

The opponent in a single-player game is the AI and the conditions given by the game much like trying to get a high-score in a 1P game of Asteroids or Star Castle.  In current Starsector, it is beat never-ending fleets of AI efficiently enough that the player does not death-spiral into a perpetual state of poverty and endless respawning (the closest Starsector gets to a true "GAME OVER").  I do not cheat (on my first playthrough) because there is no point - just say "I WIN!" and move on.  Loophole abuse and AI/game exploits is not cheating, because I did not break any rules enforced by the game.

As for Ironman, since player can leave the game without saving by exiting combat, player can save-scum there too.  It just takes longer because the game exits to desktop instead of going to the main menu.  Since the game provides non-Ironman, I use it, because I do not want to waste a minute or so exiting and restarting the game.  If current Ironman was the only way to play the game, you bet I will save-scum there (and get irritated by constant exit-and-restart).  For Ironman in Starsector to be like Ironman in Roguelikes, save-scumming should be impossible unless the player backs up files manually; then, it is cheating to save-scum.

Also, the game intends fleet action play, but soloing fleets with one overpowered ship is much more efficient in CR and supply consumption, and protects your AI ships from themselves, which is why I solo nearly every fight in the game.  This is not cheating.  What the developer (or lawmaker) intends and what the game rules (or law) actually says and enforces may be two very different things, which is why there are amendments, errata, patches, or the like to mitigate or remove exploits or degenerate play.  Telling me that I cheat just because it offends people idea of a fun game instead of actually breaking game rules is just trash talk by an opposing party trying to shame a gullible opponent to give up and join them.  It helps that Starsector is an "alpha", so that exploits found have a chance to be addressed.
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Creepin

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2016, 07:52:31 AM »

And whether you savescum or summon the ship via console, you are not playing the way you were meant to be in either case, you are playing the way you want to.
I don't understand, why does people say it as if it is anything bad? Really, you think it's valid point saying I should play as somebody else (dev) wanted me to play, or else I am cheating? The hell? Next time when some developers would want people to play standing on one feet singing Michael Jackson, you will say "eh, if that's how they meant us to play" instead of "screw you, I have better idea"? What any game really is is a set of rules wrapped in a pretty graphics. Devs give you the set of rules, and you try it with all your wit to bend it, to squeeze what you want and get what you could without breaking the rules, that's what is a game - a war between a rules given by the devs and the wits of the player. And if devs by shortsightedness or any reason leave a loopholes between the rules, that's their fault, at that point they lost the war, and the player, clever enough to saw these loopholes, won a war. How hard it is to understand?
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DownTheDrain

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2016, 08:10:55 AM »

This discussion is sure dragging on considering you all pretty much agreed that the only objective in a singleplayer game is having a good time...
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Kaucukovnik

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2016, 08:53:33 AM »

B-b-b-but...

... although that is irritating and unfun... until I get that ship
:P

I'm ceasing my attempts to spare anyone unfun gaming time. May the RNG gods be favorable to you.
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MikeyTWolf

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2016, 07:10:45 AM »

Here's my first post and opinion on boarding as it is:

RNG sucks, if this is the only way to earn ships through spoils of war, it's incredibly dissapointing.

So here's thinking outside the box: Add to salvaging (I read the July article about exploration and salvage) to not just include raw materials, but the following outcomes:

  • Failed boarding attempts can partially succeed by disabling the self-destruct but the ship is now incapable of flight
  • Ships that can be boarded are ships that have active crew on, because the ship is not operational in combat or is capable of retreating but it's otherwise mostly external damage. The crew on them will be holding out in hopes of a rescue effort from their side, so marines are necessary to neutralise them and prevent them from going down with the ship via self-destruct
  • Particularly brave/experienced marines will chance the self-destruct instead of fleeing, allowing a partial success of incapable but still intact ship hull remains
  • For each Ox (Tug) ship the player has, one safely secured but disabled ship can be added to your fleet in a completely destroyed state. Repairing these won't be possible without materials and a construction/salvage rig or market
  • Commander skills can determine what size ships can be tugged. These ships are effectively wrecked and therefore may need multiple tugs to move without disintegrating.
  • These ships can be found in other fleet's battlefield left overs, so salvaging is especially profitable for pirates.
  • It's now possible, even without any boarding attempts, to acquire used ships with some extra legwork

So economically:

  • Captured ships are good to go, use supplies to restore CR and repair
  • Disabled ships are tuggable, need taking to market or extra circumstances to make operational
  • The cost of buying ships new can be more costly, though every shipyard can also stock (D) type ships fairly commonly near war zones
  • The cost of making a disabled ship operational can be affordable if the current shipyard doesn't stock any of that type if it's a frigate or destroyer. If the ship is bigger it can actually cost more money to invest than buying new if it's available. However you can use materials to offset these costs, and mercantile fleets should be able to do so without spending (almost, labour still costs) credit.
  • Disabled ships can be brought to markets that decommission old ships for either credits and/or materials, so it's worth it for salvage minded fleets. This helps iron manners to progress towards their goal ships even in the event of otherwise nothing good coming from a fight.

In the end fighting simply shouldn't be paying. If you can make a military grade fleet hauling boxes of potato chips, those are some really expensive potatoes. PMCs can really make do with their enemy's belongings instead, they won't be needing them anymore after all.

Lastly, boarding in this context hasn't really changed at all, and remains an extremely useful tool. It's just now you're not trying to use that same chisel on carving a tunnel through a mountain instead of just the building blocks needed to support it.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 07:13:11 AM by MikeyTWolf »
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