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Author Topic: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)  (Read 20224 times)

Tartiflette

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2016, 06:42:54 AM »

...I can kind of get behind this, while simultaneously not getting behind this. Maybe if 'boarding' were instead relegated to the Salvage aspect of Star Sector and not battles, I could see THAT being a thing. But it's still fun to conquer your way into decent ships as is. It's just frustrating as hell.
The emphasis was on "As it stand". Of course the mechanic can be tweaked toward something that add a lot to the game, but in its current 1-2% chance to get something good I feel that it creates more bad blood than good moments.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 12:57:41 PM by Tartiflette »
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VuNut

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2016, 11:01:43 AM »

The problems with boarding entirely boil down to it being left to crossed fingers and a X% chance the player can only manipulate through save-scumming and very obviously game-y steps (ala blowing up all the wrecks you don't want in combat).

I would guess that this isn't something that should be worried about right now, as I can see a pass of the mechanic with more general salvaging stuff in the coming update.
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Weltall

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2016, 02:56:08 PM »

Savescuming (seriously, I learned that weird word in here..  Sounds so wrong) will be a thing be it there is a luck factor or skill factor. When people want something, they will reload untiul they get it, except if of course they limit themselves for more realism, or play Ironman.

If I had a list of which feature I want the next patch to have and boarding was an option, it would be on the top of my list. That is thought only because of my personal views on how much I like boarding.

But for sure I too think this is not something that we should be worried about right now. Again, like I said, be it it appears or not, I will adore this game like crazy. If anything I wish the 0.6.5.2a mechanic was an option. Not that I say that throwing two dices makes the boarding much better than just throwing one, but it gave me a better satisfaction, cause it was a bit harder to get a ship... oh that moment that you got a chance with the ship you wanted so much to get and it would explode in your face.. grrrr
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Gennadios

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2016, 07:27:52 PM »

Many suggestions involve a lot of feature-creep like boarding minigames or expanding the scope of combat to have a sub-level of assault shuttles and ship invasions. Starsector is a game that's fairly clear about what it's about - space battles - and what it's going to be better about - campaign-level gameplay - so I don't think extremely detailed sub-features are a useful route to solving this problem.

Fleet based combat is already so detailed that I doubt people expect any future scope changes to move away from it. Will there ever be a point in development where the player retires to their Capital planet/space station and control things remotely like a sci-fi transport tycoon?

While I'm not fond of the idea of minigames, I have no problem with Ion weaponry and boarding shuttles. The basic behaviours are already there for Ion weapons and the shuttles could very well be fighters that happen to only be able to attack ships that are in flux overload or otherwise out of commission.

Having control over which ship to capture needn't be easy or guaranteed. To tool a fleet for capture, the player would need to sacrifice punching power in favor of less hard hitting/flux generating weaponry, and also organize their fleet for troop carrying capacity (what use do the Valkyrie and Starliner currently serve?)

It shouldn't be a question of whether making a capture "guaranteed" will ruin the game, but about how hard it should be to accomplish it.
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Megas

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2016, 10:49:55 AM »

Quote
Having control over which ship to capture needn't be easy or guaranteed. To tool a fleet for capture, the player would need to sacrifice punching power in favor of less hard hitting/flux generating weaponry, and also organize their fleet for troop carrying capacity (what use do the Valkyrie and Starliner currently serve?)
Valkryie, none since the smaller liners are more efficient.  Valkyrie may have more OP and guns, but it is still relatively helpless due to poor combat performance.  It needs to haul and fight like the Mule.  Of course, this is all moot since Valkyrie cannot be found in unmodded game.

Starliner is useful if you need to haul lots of elite crew to sell.  (Command Experience 10 plus lots of combat can generate lots of elite crew.)  It would be useful as a freighter if its maintenance costs were not so high.  If not sell crewing, then Starliner is not very useful.
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ciago92

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2016, 02:14:22 PM »


 - time consuming salvaging to prevent farming ships in enemy space as you'll be interrupted,
 - burn 0 disabled ships that needs tugs and repair gantries to move...
 - to a spaceport to get reactivated, again to limit the number of ships you can get in one patrol. It would also create some interesting choices like when you get the opportunity to capture a second ship on your way home but only have one tug.


This is the kind of thing I think should be implemented. Now that we have debris fields on the campaign map, I think part of that should/could be "these ships were disabled but not destroyed in the battle that generated this field. You need X repair gantries to repair this ship here (1% hull, 1% cr so you can get it moving) or Y tugs to take it somewhere to be fixed. Or, you can just loot the ships." This can be part of the salvaging stuff, the skill would probably fit under industry reasonably well, and it'd add more interesting decisions to the campaign map (it'll take three days to repair the engines to the point we can move it, how likely is it no pirates will find you during those three days? Heck, if we wanted to get crazy with it you could even have the repair gantries as ships you must defend in combat if you get caught). The sizes of ships can be locked behind different skill levels and repair costs. It'd add another way to acquire ships without making it a requirement, a must-have skill, or a cheap grindfest. You'd still have to dedicate yourself to making it happen. It might even open up the scavenger playthrough further, running around behind fights trying to find a hull or two to sneak off with quickly and sell for a quick buck without getting caught.
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Schwartz

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2016, 03:44:05 PM »

Starsector has an 'easy mode' that involves chasing lucrative bounties and playing nice with the major factions, but it also has a 'hard mode'. You make the game difficult for yourself by antagonizing factions and becoming a pirate. It's a legitimate playstyle and yet it penalizes you hard. You don't get a lot of markets and what they offer is mostly sh*t.

Now piracy is tons of fun. It is the one playstyle that really caters to the new sensor mechanics the most. Clearly it is encouraged. It's also the playstyle that benefits most from boarding. The old system was RNG but workable. You could rig Mercury shuttles with extra personnel space and get a fair shot without the risk of losing an expensive ship of yours. I don't know how the game now calculates possible salvages, but I'm pretty sure it's falling short on what it's supposed to be, X% per ship. I always end up upping the percentage in my games.

Boarding doesn't have to be a whole minigame. I would like it to be because it could be a fun thing to do. Mostly I just want the pirate playstyle to work better. Hell, a starting option that enables something like rare ships (Dynasector) and at the same time increases boarding chance would be fine and easy as pie to implement. The system we have now is okay. Right now it's just not quite there yet.
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Drokkath

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2016, 09:25:07 PM »

Yeah, have had a ship or two blown up in the past too. Not sure either how the new boarding mechanic works but at least the ship of mine hasn't blown up due to boarding.

All I can say is that I do prefer some sort of a boarding minigame even if it is through dialog and in hopes of lessening the dead marines.
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Deshara

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2016, 10:34:42 PM »

Yeah, have had a ship or two blown up in the past too. Not sure either how the new boarding mechanic works but at least the ship of mine hasn't blown up due to boarding.

All I can say is that I do prefer some sort of a boarding minigame even if it is through dialog and in hopes of lessening the dead marines.

preferably locked behind a skill tree to maintain vanilla balance
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Drokkath

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2016, 02:23:11 AM »

preferably locked behind a skill tree to maintain vanilla balance

Aye. The more skill the less casualties. Basically a sort of a boarding relating skill that opens up a few more dialog options and chances to possibly keep more marines alive. That's, yeah basically what I was thinking of.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 02:26:18 AM by Drokkath »
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Megas

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2016, 05:56:49 AM »

That is what the level 5 perk of Advanced Tactics, Special Ops, does.  It halves the marines you need to successfully board the ship.  Combined with marines worth 233 credits a pop at zero stability black markets, boarding is cheaper than buying ships, even after repairs.
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Drokkath

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2016, 07:38:09 AM »

I barely look at what skills give or do about half the time, can't really blame me for not wanting to read much and wanting to play the game with maxed out everything instead.

That aside, it's a neat thing indeed as I just checked.
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JDCollie

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2016, 11:25:12 AM »

Personally I don't see how less RNG-y boarding mechanics would "ruin" the game experience, especially if you balance the boarding correctly. Consider the cost of a new ship, let's say a 45,000 credit destroyer. Now let's say the player is given the option to board said ship instead of buying it. So long as the repair cost plus the marine cost are balanced to be similar, the progression will stay largely the same.

Heck, allow the boarding success rate to be controlled by how many marines are committed, with success being guaranteed with enough personnel. Just have the casualty rates guaranteed as well (with a +/-10% margin for FUN!) and you have a generally balanced mechanic that allows players to have agency, let's them still get lucky (committing to boarding with less than the required marines and just hoping to get roll big), and is still has cost that can be measured in credits. Granted, it doesn't address which ships are available for boarding, but at least it deals with the boarding mechanic itself.

Obviously the boarding skills would require a rework with this, but I think it would be more fun than the current mechanic of "Pray to RNGesus".
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:27:04 AM by JDCollie »
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Megas

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2016, 02:47:07 PM »

The biggest fun killer is ship availability.  I want to board that Hyperion or Onslaught XIV, not another Buffalo or Hammerhead!
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Drokkath

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Re: Why so many people want detailed boarding mechanics (my best guess)
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2016, 03:16:18 PM »

Manual choice of which enemy ship to save for boarding the most would sure be welcome. I fully agree.

On a side note I'm probably the idiot here who used a fully maxed out Hammerhead for a while last time I played Starsector which was like more than a year ago.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 03:19:49 PM by Drokkath »
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