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[Alex]

I did say I was speaking hypothetically

However, hypothetically speaking, this would be something less than an 8% overall reduction - not all *that* much. Plus, I feel like having a few less OP on the high end will make the choices more interesting. The way it is now, too many things are "must have" in large part because there's enough OP to get all of them.

But, I'd really prefer not to get into a detailed discussion about skills here - not quite ready to talk about all of it, and discussing individual hypotheticals in isolation without talking about the bigger picture is a bit tough.

[HELMUT]

- I see the radar is back, is it related to a skill or hullmod??? Or a permanent UI element? Can it be improved by skills and hullmods?

"Back"?

The big thing that made me happy with this blog-post was the presence of automated enemies, which i suspect to be turrets of some kind. The weakest will probably be nothing more than debris with a still functional guns strapped on it. The bigger ones however... I'll speculate on proper space stations battles between factions in the future.

Also, this will maybe add the possibility of "inactive" turrets on the battlefield that could be reactivated through strategic points. Capturing the arbitrary +10% damage dispenser isn't as fun as taking over that conveniently placed ancient doomsday device.

What is that thing you boarded in the second screenshot by the way? Some kind of colony ship? It clearly got some kind of engines tubes-things, plus it's huge compared to your little Medusa. Or just a placeholder?

I'm quite happy as well for the salvage change. Blasting stuff apart could finally become lucrative outside of bounty hunting, which would be handy for pirates and other Luddite terrorists.

[Alex]

Ah - but that was in combat. (Man, that screenshot looks rough. Neat to see, though.)

What is that thing you boarded in the second screenshot by the way? Some kind of colony ship? It clearly got some kind of engines tubes-things, plus it's huge compared to your little Medusa. Or just a placeholder?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The thing under the dialog, that you can barely see? That's the Domain survey ship that's being interacted with.

[Cycerin]

Excellent stuff Alex. One of my favorite parts of the Escape Velocity games was the feeling of exploring off into unknown systems, with a limited fuel supply, wondering if you would find something interesting. And there wasn't really that much to find in those games. This will be much better. Especially for difficulty curve.

Are you procedurally generating markets as well?

[Alex]

One of my favorite parts of the Escape Velocity games was the feeling of exploring off into unknown systems, with a limited fuel supply, wondering if you would find something interesting.

That was so my favorite part of Star Control 2.

Are you procedurally generating markets as well?

Not at the moment. I could see something doing something limited along those lines - such, as, say, a faction establishing an outpost because it needs X resource, or an isolated hidden colony type thing. I do want to keep the core worlds pre-made, though.

[Gothars]

Working through the icons ("exactly the same as the map" doesn't quite seem to work well), but wasn't thinking of updating the widget itself. Maybe David will come up with something, though.

WW2 radar: well, it needs to be round. And then the concentric circles indicate range - in the radar, they're spaced at 2000 unit increments, same as the map grid. Once you've got those things, that's pretty much the design right there... just seems entirely driven by its function.

It's just, the campaign UI we have is in-universe, with the little metal bits holding it in place, and the buttons, and the information parts being "projected" and the TRIPAD writing and all. The radar on the other hand just floats there. Some little metal parts framing the text and projecting the radar could really help to sell it.

What is that thing you boarded in the second screenshot by the way? Some kind of colony ship? It clearly got some kind of engines tubes-things, plus it's huge compared to your little Medusa. Or just a placeholder?

It's a "derelict survey ship left from the initial Domain exploration of the Sector", according to the description:)

[Alex]

It's just, the campaign UI we have is in-universe, with the little metal bits holding it in place, and the buttons, and the information parts being "projected" and the TRIPAD writing and all. The radar on the other hand just floats there. Some little metal parts framing the text and projecting the radar could really help to sell it.

Ah, gotcha, that makes sense. I was thinking that it's in the same style as the ability widget and that'd be enough, but yeah, some bits and bobs in the tripad style probably wouldn't hurt to add. Made a note!

[Megas]

However, hypothetically speaking, this would be something less than an 8% overall reduction - not all *that* much. Plus, I feel like having a few less OP on the high end will make the choices more interesting. The way it is now, too many things are "must have" in large part because there's enough OP to get all of them.

Not sure about this.  I would certainly dump the luxuries (e.g., more capacitors, bigger missiles, extra weapons), but the critical stuff like Augmented Engines, ITU, and (maybe) Hardened Subsystems will stay.  Also, may gravitate toward cheap but effective weapons (e.g., Tactical Laser over Graviton Beam, Heavy Mauler or Hellbore over HAG, Heavy AC instead of Heavy Needler, etc.) and dump the missiles (especially if Missile Specialization gets whacked hard).  It would also make the Flux Dynamics perks a joke (I almost never take advantage of double max vents because there is not enough OP to take advantage without giving up more important stuff).  If anything, I think less OP would reduce interesting choices, not expand them, unless the must-haves are weakened enough, integrated into ships (e.g., shot range builtin for all ships like in some mods), or changed into skill bonuses.

[Alex]

Yeah, that's kind of why talking about individual changes in isolation doesn't make a lot of sense. There are so many "unless" cases.

[Gothars]

If anything, I think less OP would reduce interesting choices, not expand them, unless the must-haves are weakened enough, integrated into ships (e.g., shot range builtin for all ships like in some mods), or changed into skill bonuses.

I think interesting choices while refitting a ship should depend more on the intended role of the ship. At the moment you can just build a fleet of general purpose ships that is sufficient to tackle any and all (vanilla) obstacles. That is due to two things, firstly the superior stats of your ships, and secondly the lack of variety in combat scenarios. We have one scenario where special fast ships are required, that is pursuit. For everything else any kind of combat ship will do, be it missile, long-range laser or strike. You just have to make it as generally powerful as you can. Cutting player OP will mitigate the issue, but I think that's only half the rent.


If some more scenarios were introduced were one kind of ship had a huge advantage, that would be motivation to make some new and interesting choices while refitting your ships. Maybe the derelicts would be a good start for that. You know, drones that have great weapons but no PD, or super heavy armor but no shields, stuff like that.
A next step would be more tactically specialized UI fleets, where you can get a real advantage by counter-specializing.


I know that you are not a fan of hard-counters, Alex, and that's not what I'm suggesting. You can still beat those opponents with a general purpose fleet, but it would take much more ships on your side. At least some dashes of the stone-paper-scissors principle would help to mix things up in a good way, I believe.
 

Ah, gotcha, that makes sense. I was thinking that it's in the same style as the ability widget and that'd be enough, but yeah, some bits and bobs in the tripad style probably wouldn't hurt to add. Made a note!

 

[mendonca]

Love it.

I also found the automated domain-era drones section of the blog rather exciting.

Also the inferral of perhaps more powerful drones that you may come across in, say, more Special Circumstances.

Spoiler

I've just re-read almost all the Culture Series books, I can't stop myself thinking like this anymore.

*mendonca glands Calm*

[close]

Several like this in the blog post - nice, simple additions that hit bang-on with the current flavour of the world and the game and should only add to the experience.

[Megas]

I think interesting choices while refitting a ship should depend more on the intended role of the ship. At the moment you can just build a fleet of general purpose ships that is sufficient to tackle any and all (vanilla) obstacles. That is due to two things, firstly the superior stats of your ships, and secondly the lack of variety in combat scenarios. We have one scenario where special fast ships are required, that is pursuit. For everything else any kind of combat ship will do, be it missile, long-range laser or strike. You just have to make it as generally powerful as you can. Cutting player OP will mitigate the issue, but I think that's only half the rent.

Currently, there are only three necessary roles in a fleet:  brute force, cargo hauling, and tugs to raise burn speed of capitals to 9 (or 8 in case of Atlas).  Of the three, only one is relevant in a fight.

Cutting OP only helps if you cut so much that your combat ships cannot afford all of the necessities.  If you cut some OP but leave just enough to get all of the bare necessities, then ships will just get all of the bare necessities and nothing else fun.  Unskilled ships have so few OP it hurts.  Even with +30% OP and Op. Assembly perk, some ships still do not have enough OP to get everything, especially if Flux Dynamics perks were unlocked.

When some ships can do more than its peers, I simply pass on the underperforming ships.  I always pick Enforcer over Hammerhead, because everything Hammerhead can do, Enforcer does better (except mix ion cannons with ballistics, which is not enough), and I always pick two Medusa or one Eagle over one Aurora.

[Midnight Kitsune]

Until the AI learns to focus fire on a ship until it is dead (especially with skills becoming more defensive, thus increasing the TTK) and the AI doesn't get to basically IGNORE CR, supply consumption and damage/ losses, OP and skill changes will only HURT ship build diversity. Hell I'm already limited since the AI will almost always close to knife fight range so why would I give them long range guns?
Hopefully skills will be merge-able next time so I can make my own and add back in the OP that gets lost...

[Gothars]

Cutting OP only helps if you cut so much that your combat ships cannot afford all of the necessities.  If you cut some OP but leave just enough to get all of the bare necessities, then ships will just get all of the bare necessities and nothing else fun.  

What I'm saying is that the "necessities" you speak of are necessary only for the brute force approach. Making other approaches far superior in certain situations would turn other skills into the must-haves for those situations.

Of course toning down the best mods a bit can help, but there will always be a set of optimal mods for a general purpose (i.e. brute force) build. So we need reasons for other builds.

Hell I'm already limited since the AI will almost always close to knife fight range so why would I give them long range guns?

I think you got it the wrong way, the engagement range the AI chooses is dependent on it's weapon loadout.  If you only give it long range weapons it will keep its distance (sufficient mobility provided).

[Megas]

Until the AI learns to focus fire on a ship until it is dead (especially with skills becoming more defensive, thus increasing the TTK) and the AI doesn't get to basically IGNORE CR, supply consumption and damage/ losses, OP and skill changes will only HURT ship build diversity.

When I used to fight with fleets, I would spend excess CP by selecting every ship in my fleet, and click an enemy I want dead now.  There is no kill like overkill.  I am not fond of my ships automatically splitting up to engage enemies in multiple duels.  If I cannot gang-up on the enemy with superior numbers, it becomes time to leave the fleet undeployed and solo or chain-flagship the enemy.

@ Gothars:  More viable roles would need to be added first.  Brute force is the only role ship configuration supports.  For other roles, just slap Augmented Engines and maybe Blast Doors hullmods, then put some Vulcans for anti-missile, and they are good-to-go - and they will probably still die if caught by a combat ship.