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Author Topic: collection of faction mods?  (Read 10688 times)

Joff3x

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collection of faction mods?
« on: June 25, 2016, 10:18:02 AM »

Hi every beloved Starsector fan. I'd love to find a collection of the greatest faction mods out there in the Starsector moddingverse in just one download and installation. I feel it's a huge struggle to download every faction mod separately. Anyone up for the job making one? It would of course be great if they were compatible with starsector+ and nExelerin. Thanks.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 10:26:10 AM by Joff3x »
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 01:09:18 PM »

This seems unnecessary.  Installing mods is as easy as downloading a file, unpacking it, and placing the unpacked folder in your /mods folder.  It's the easiest procedure of any game I've ever worked on.

On top of that, the packed folder would be somewhere in the realm of 600-800 MB, which is unreasonably large for any one person to host, and very slow to download on poor connections (over 4 hours on a 384kbps 3G connection).  It's also a *** to upload.

Worst of all, someone would have to update the package regularly and test all the mods for validation every time.  This is a task time-consuming and annoying enough to be an actual job.  Ever hear of Source Control Management?
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kazi

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2016, 05:50:53 PM »

When mods were tinier, this used to be a thing. Uomoz maintained the Corvus mod collection, and it contained pretty much all of the decent mods of the time. You would just activate it and play. However, maintaining it *was* basically a full-time job for him, and Dark.Revenant's Starsector+ sort of took over right as Uomoz decided it wasn't worth it.

Also, like Dark.Revenant said, the average mod size is something like 10x what it used to be. Custom sfx, music, backgrounds, interaction images, portraits, normal/material/surface maps, and planets/system details didn't used to be a thing. All of these are huge in terms of file sizes. Hell, even Starsector itself is 10x bigger than it used to be. Things used to be just the Corvus system lol.

Anyhow, although it would be nice to have a unified download, the amount of time and effort required to maintain it becomes absolutely insane. You are of course welcome to try your hand at hosting one, however  :)
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xenoargh

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 04:51:13 PM »

Eventually, when SS hits Steam, I'm expecting Workshop support; that'll make all of this a snap :)
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MesoTroniK

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 05:29:18 PM »

If anything would EVER make me consider quit SS modding, it would be if it got Workshop support and I would suspect some other modders feel the same way.

Toxcity

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 05:40:53 PM »

If anything would EVER make me consider quit SS modding, it would be if it got Workshop support and I would suspect some other modders feel the same way.

Any particular reason why? The only thing I can think of is the paid mods thing (where steam takes a good portion of the cut), but that's out as far as I know.
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Tartiflette

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 06:02:01 PM »

Any particular reason why? The only thing I can think of is the paid mods thing (where steam takes a good portion of the cut), but that's out as far as I know.
I think the "anything you post on the workshop belong to us forever" segment of the EULA is a pretty big reason. An I too would stop modding if the workshop was implemented.

[edit]   Steam's EULA concerning mods did became a bit more lenient in the past couple of years, but they still keep that provision allowing them to revert to a more restrictive EULA without any warning.

   In plain language, they can still change their mind about the economic worth of modding and decide to legally steal other people's work.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 06:13:18 PM by Tartiflette »
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kazi

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 06:28:10 PM »

Any particular reason why? The only thing I can think of is the paid mods thing (where steam takes a good portion of the cut), but that's out as far as I know.
I think the "anything you post on the workshop belong to us" segment of the EULA is a pretty big reason. An I too would stop modding if the workshop was implemented.

This is grossly misrepresenting what the actual terms of the license are. I was curious so I looked it up. Copy-paste of the relevant section at http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ (along with my English translations):

Spoiler
6. USER GENERATED CONTENT

A. General Provisions

"User Generated Content" means any content you make available to other users through your use of multi-user features of Steam, or to Valve or its affiliates through your use of the Content and Services or otherwise.

You grant Valve and its affiliates the worldwide, non-exclusive, right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, transcode, translate, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site. This license is granted to Valve for the entire duration of the intellectual property rights and may be terminated if Valve is in breach of the license and has not cured such breach within fourteen (14) days from receiving notice from you sent to the attention of the Valve Legal Department at the applicable Valve address noted on this Privacy Policy page. The termination of said license does not affect the rights of any sub-licensees pursuant to any sub-license granted by Valve prior to termination of the license. Valve is the sole owner of the derivative works created by Valve from your Content, and is therefore entitled to grant licenses on these derivative works. If you use Valve cloud storage, you grant us a license to store your information as part of that service. Valve may place limits on the amount of storage you may use.

If you provide Valve with any feedback or suggestions about Steam, the Content and Services, or any Valve products or services, Valve is free to use the feedback or suggestions however it chooses, without any obligation to account to you.
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Any content you make available, we may modify, display, and distribute in connection with operation/promotion of Steam. This is a catch-all clause that allows Valve to use your content for advertising and promotional materials if they want to.
--------------

Spoiler
B. Content Uploaded to the Steam Workshop

Some games or applications available on Steam ("Workshop-Enabled Apps") allow you to create User Generated Content based on or using the Workshop-Enabled App, and to submit that User Generated Content (a “Workshop Contribution”) to one or more Steam Workshop web pages. Workshop Contributions can be viewed by the Steam community, and for some categories of Workshop Contributions users may be able to interact with, download or purchase the Workshop Contribution. In some cases, Workshop Contributions may be considered for incorporation by Valve or a third-party developer into a game or into a Subscription Marketplace.

You understand and agree that Valve is not obligated to use, distribute, or continue to distribute copies of any Workshop Contribution and reserves the right, but not the obligation, to restrict or remove Workshop Contributions for any reason.

Specific Workshop-Enabled Apps or Workshop web pages may contain special terms (“App-Specific Terms”) that supplement or change the terms set out in this Section. In particular, where Workshop Contributions are distributed for a fee, App-Specific Terms will address how revenue may be shared. Unless otherwise specified in App-Specific Terms (if any), the following general rules apply to Workshop Contributions.
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Blah, blah... we can remove your stuff from the workshop if we want. We may release your mods as "paid mods" if we so choose, but how revenue is split is dependent on the developer (Alex).
------------------

Spoiler
Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.

Notwithstanding the license described in Section 6.A., Valve will only have the right to modify or create derivative works from your Workshop Contribution in the following cases: (a) Valve may make modifications necessary to make your Contribution compatible with Steam and the Workshop functionality or user interface, and (b) Valve or the applicable developer may make modifications to Workshop Contributions that are accepted for in-Application distribution as it deems necessary or desirable to enhance gameplay.
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We only have the right to make changes to your content in two scenarios: what you uploaded isn't actually compatible with the workshop OR if you mod is really, really broken in terms of gameplay. I can only see Valve using the second part of the license to touch things up if they were going to do paid mods.
------------------

Spoiler
You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.

Except where otherwise provided in App-Specific Terms, you agree that Valve’s consideration of your Workshop Contribution is your full compensation, and you are not entitled to any other rights or compensation in connection with the rights granted to Valve and to other Subscribers.
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If you remove your contribution from the workshop, we will remove the contribution from the workshop, but not delete it from users' computers if they've already downloaded it (because that would be INSANE).
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Literally none of the EULA is scary whatsoever. The very worst case scenario that these EULA terms allow is Valve arbitrarily deciding that the mods are now for-profit and they start sending modders royalty checks (unlikely to happen, unless Alex demanded paid mods). Bring on Steam Workshop.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 06:29:53 PM by kazi »
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MesoTroniK

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2016, 06:36:39 PM »

The day someone besides me has any say in how my content is distributed or promoted is a cold day in Hell. Besides, think of it from another angle.

Ok, so some shitlord likes the stuff I make right? So he uploads it as his own and tries to charge for it or whatever, this would be a never ending battle once Pandora's Box has been opened.

kazi

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2016, 06:41:36 PM »

Eh, Valve only makes 2 claims there as to redistribution: we can do whatever we want for advertising AND we will redistribute it to users who download it as long as you have it online.

On the topic of paid mods, that door's not even open. The EULA supports it, but there aren't any major games that support it. Unlikely to ever happen, and if it did, you have the opportunity of legal action with Valve.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 06:44:36 PM »

Because I totally want to have to consider possible legal action for a *** mod that I do out of the goodness of my heart and own pockets.

Or fight *** who try to reupload my content as their own (they could do it without trying to collect money), in a setting where I don't have the luxury of poking one of our moderators to deal with it swiftly. And such problems are a real thing that happens in other games.

Midnight Kitsune

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2016, 06:53:37 PM »

Kazi, I see you failed to notice that Steam Workshop goes against the SS EULA:
Spoiler
--------------------------------
4.  Additional License Limitations
--------------------------------

The license granted to you in Section 3 above is subject to the limitations set
forth in this License (collectively, the "License Limitations"). Any use of the
Game in violation of the License Limitations or in violation of this Agreement
will be regarded as an infringement of Fractal Softwork?s copyrights in and to
the Game, and shall result in the automatic termination of your license to use
the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

b. Exploit the Game or any of its parts (or any Mods) for any commercial purpose
   without Fractal Softworks's express permission,

d. Attempt to sell, sublicense, rent, lease, grant a security interest in or
   otherwise transfer any copy of the Game or your rights to the Game to any
   other party in any way not expressly authorized herein.
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kazi

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 07:13:54 PM »

You both are counting on mods being paid (of which absolutely none are on the Steam workshop). And Mesotronik, let's envision your nightmare scenario: other person uploads a copy of your mod... now twice as many people are playing Exigency... oh, and this hypothetical evil person can't make any claim to it because there's literally years of evidence pointing to you as the developer on these forums.

And if you were obsessed over the possibility of someone ever repackaging your mod and claiming it as their own, simply obfuscate the jar, have it compute an md5 checksum of itself on initialization of the mod plugin, and throw a RuntimeException if it doesn't match the checksum you specify. Literally no one could change even a character of your mod's text without it crashing. No one could make changes to the mod, only redistribute it.

And Midnight Kitusune, absolutely none of that clause is in conflict with the Steam EULA whatsoever. As the Steam EULA states, any "App-specific terms" take precedence. In this case, that means Valve cannot make mods paid without Alex's express permission (as per terms of Starsector's license).

------------------------------------

Honestly, I don't actually care if Starsector has Workshop support or not. What bothers me is that none of you even bothered to read the actual license. Then everyone tries to make it out to be the end of the world (because OMFG STEAM MAKES MONEY, THEREFORE EVIL), which is totally not the case.

Personally, I think workshop support would be a good deal- as OP mentioned, installing Starsector mods is a chore and it would make things easier for the end user.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2016, 07:29:15 PM »

How to install Starsector mods:
Download all of these.

GraphicsLib
LazyLib

Audio Plus
Autosave
Combat Chatter
Common Radar
Console Commands
DynaSector
Nexerelin
Save Transfer
Ship/Weapon Pack
Simulator Overhaul
Starsector+
Steiner Foundation
Underworld
Upgraded Rotary Weapons
Version Checker

Then get all the factions listed on the Dynasector page.

Then get 64bit java and increase the allocation. 2GB+ memory allocation guide

Then update stuff when Version Checker tells you to. You literally only have to do this initial download once per version of Starsector! That's it, how is this a chore? Even if you have a poor connection it isn't that big of a deal. Starsector has just about the easiest method to enable mods of any game I have ever seen.

If we really want an "easier" method to download mods, then someone should step forward and make a Freespace 2 Open style mod downloader / manager that is ran by us the modders. Not Valve, they can go to Hell for all I care.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 07:34:24 PM by MesoTroniK »
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kazi

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Re: collection of faction mods?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2016, 07:55:41 PM »

Thats like 200+ clicks, not counting having to read the mod pages to see if you actually want the mod in the first place. I think the Blackrock download page even has a captcha now that requires you to view/read an ad. (*edit- double checked and it wasn't there this time... that only happened to me once...)

I'm too lazy to download all of those in one sitting haha...

(but yeah, I'm all for a mod downloader/installer... get coding people!)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 07:58:27 PM by kazi »
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