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Author Topic: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad  (Read 28973 times)

Cyan Leader

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2016, 10:48:23 AM »

Doesn't most if not all objectives grant at the very least 1 CP? As if it expected you to use one to capture it.

But to be honest, I agree with Megas. While I understand why CR is in the game, I can't really wrap my mind around the concept of CPs. Why can't we have full control of our fleet? Would it make us that overpowered against the AI?

I'm not pure soloer like Megas but I've done at least 2-3 entire runs (read: reaching point of invincibility and thus boredom) soloing because as he points out it is the best way to profit, and the reason why I wasn't willing to use the AI is because the lack of control. If I could direct the AI to back off when needed, to charge in when needed, to fire missiles when needed, etc, I'd be willing to experiment with them more. I still use fleets but CP is such an annoyance that most of my allies are missile boats that I give an order to stay back and they stay there the whole battle.

I understand I can have that if I level up the skill but it is such an annoyance and it comes so late.
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Megas

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2016, 07:41:24 PM »

Capturing Nav or Sensor points give +1 CP, and Comms give more.  The thing is, you need ships that are fast enough to get the points before the enemy does and strong enough to defend points against the enemy.  This assumes your fleet is at least equal strength.  If you are in over your head, and you only have 3 CP, you could end up trying to capture the points, but things go horribly wrong and you fail, then you have no recourse but full retreat to recall your ships.  If you can capture and hold the points, you have probably already won the fight, and the challenge at that point is not winning, but minimizing damage or casualties.

I am almost a pure solo'er now, but I was not that way for all versions.  In 0.65, I solo'ed fleets until I got high Fleet Logistics (when fleet size was bound by Logistics, not 25 ship limit), then I ran with forty frigate fleets that overwhelmed everything.  (I could use bigger ships, but frigates were cheap and fast.)
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frag971

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2016, 08:17:56 AM »

At this point i i think i just use CheatEngine to keep my supply up so i don't worry about it.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2016, 12:09:17 PM »

At this point i i think i just use CheatEngine to keep my supply up so i don't worry about it.
Just use the console mod. (Someone linked it earlier)
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frag971

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2016, 01:12:21 PM »

At this point i i think i just use CheatEngine to keep my supply up so i don't worry about it.
Just use the console mod. (Someone linked it earlier)
But then i have to keep clicking it :P
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2016, 01:18:06 PM »

But then i have to keep clicking it :P
Ummmm what?
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frag971

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2016, 05:54:34 PM »

But then i have to keep clicking it :P
Ummmm what?
Well i used to set it to dev mode then hitting... K i think?, to give me 25k. I don't remember, i haven't played in a while.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2016, 06:35:46 PM »

But then i have to keep clicking it :P
Ummmm what?
Well i used to set it to dev mode then hitting... K i think?, to give me 25k. I don't remember, i haven't played in a while.
LOL I think you are confusing dev mode with this mod: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0
With this mod you can turn off supply usage and give yourself many more credits than 25K at one time. Basically you need to try it to see
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 06:38:02 PM by Midnight Kitsune »
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Grizzlyadamz

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Re: In-battle CR Timer - Why It's Bad
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2016, 09:15:31 AM »

snip
Is it then not possible to translate the CR mechanic into actual ships? Instead of having this Readiness mechanic why not have actual ships that cover that? For example: each ship has its own ability to recover, but that ability is limited and the player would want to get a logistics ship that handles that. This ship would be deployed in combat to provide repairs, rearm and drain hardflux. The more ships you field the more/bigger logistics you want to field alongside. This also "fixes" the solo-kiting of deathball fleets by letting the AI retreat and rearm/repair while your single frigate runs out of ammo or gets hardfluxed.
snip

This sounds a lot like what Gorgon was saying here:

snip

How would you feel about in-combat refuelling?  Imagine the current mechanic of transferring command via shuttle, and apply that to refuelling your ships.  You deploy a Dram, or other tanker vessel, which would refuel nearby allied ships in turn, depleting it's own fuel reserves as a result.  This would mix-up combat, meaning both players and AI need to systematically retreat to the tanker to refuel, almost making a king-of-the-hill metagame.
In addition, apart from emergency burn, fuel doesn't contribute anything to the game when the player isn't in hyperspace.  Giving fuel another purpose, and rebalancing consumption, could add another level of gameplay.



And I actually really like it.
  • Ammo-limits could be re-implemented
  • Fuel capacity could be reworked into what CR+PAT currently do
  • Tankers/Logi ships become absolutely vital, even in small fleets
  • Kiting would remain a viable tactic, but it would come at a cost & large fleets could heavily counter it by fielding a large tanker/logi ship
  • It also introduces a high-value target to both sides of the field and a whole new 'resupplying' mechanic, opening the way for a multitude of different tactics
  • Lastly, it removes the 'gaminess' of combat-readiness

Only problem is it would require a MAJOR re-balance of pretty much everything.



-edit
Thinking on it, some ideas:
Fuel consumption in-combat vs on the world stage is a balancing act.
-If a single unit of fuel gives a lot of combat time, fights would last forever or you'd have to make everything only have 1-5 fuel capacity. Very bad for small fleets & the galaxy map
-If a single unit of fuel gives a scant amount of combat time, fights would end quick & the fuel cap would remain the same, but battles would be VERY expensive (if not in cost, in time spent going to ports & refuelling)
I'm thinking we could give ships an 'atomized fuel' value, in order to limit the amount of fuel they can consume in combat, keeping the battles short & campaign range high.
In lore-terms, we could say the fuel in the storage holds is highly-enriched/concentrated & has to be broken down for use in the core.
We could get as complex as we want with this, with superfluous values for base AFuel available, consumption rate, and in-combat production rate (say with a fuel tank icon, giving a timer until the next unit is available and a gauge for how much burn you currently have from the previous atomized unit. 'You'd have to carefully consider when to run if you don't want to be stuck with an empty tank' sorta thing.).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 09:39:56 AM by Grizzlyadamz »
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