Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5

Author Topic: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)  (Read 23658 times)

majorfreak

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2016, 04:04:49 AM »

 ;D  well, at least the annihilator IS explosive. And with expanded missile racks the ammo is impressive.  Though, a medium swarmer would probably have double to triple ammo than it's smaller cousin.
Way i figure it would probably boost it's DPS via increasing the shots/minute by what looks like double for a MRM (taking annihilator as an example) ...maybe even launch 5 at once? anyways, definitely between 150-200 DPS. say 120 ammo.
I guess the developer knows the danger of having a large ship using burn drive and forward firing guided missile packs with large ammo bins. Can you say "Drive By"? i knew you could

As for the swarmers currently (the small) i tried it out and they're great against anything that can't phase/teleport/ecm that's frigate sized...yet those aren't really my problem, although it's honestly fun to "R" a low tech frigate and watch it burn. The bigger threats are the ships of the line, so Annihilator pods it is
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 04:22:40 AM by majorfreak »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2016, 04:50:36 AM »

Swarmers are relatively weak, even against fighters.  Their main use is to let AI shoot through other friendly ships if they get stuck behind the front line, and you do not want the AI to use Harpoons for whatever reason.  I suppose Swarmers could be Brawler's PD against things Swarmers can target (i.e., fighters).

For small PD, there is no substitute for Vulcan cannon.  Machine guns are good as an assault weapon for Lasher, or for ships that need multi-role PD/assault and/or hurting from OP shortage, like the Mule.  As PD, machine guns are not very reliable.  As someone mentioned earlier, Vulcan is also great as a finisher against hull, which can happen more often than you think.
Logged

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2016, 09:36:51 AM »

Whoever think swarmer missiles suck are because you didn't get 10 in missile skills. Swarmers are excellent for destroying fighters and frigates when you use officers that have the missile skill.

Also Afflictor with small Reapers isn't a one shot pony. Each Reaper at missile skill 10 will kill a destroyer, 2 reapers will kill a cruiser, and 4 reapers will kill a battleship. With combat skills your Afflictor can deploy 4 times before CR goes below 50%, which means each Afflictor can fire a total of 32 Reapers, destroying either 8 battleships, or 16 cruisers or 32 destroyers.

No enemy fleet has that many ships it could lose.

The torpedo boat could be backed up by an antimatter blaster to take care of leftover frigates.

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2016, 09:49:33 AM »

If I have 10 is Missile Specialization, I use torpedoes, annihilators, or regenerators because they give the most bang for the OP buck.  Swarmers are okay then, but still not the best, and now that Harpoons are also 4 OP, and Atropos is now scary good, Swarmers are not that great for its cost.  Swarmers are weak enough that I take Salamanders over them every time if I need a homing option.  Now that Harpoons cost 4 OP instead of 5, I prefer them over Swarmers because they are more effective finishers despite less total damage.

Back during 0.65, I had a fleet of thirty or more frigates, and they would unload Swarmers by the dozens.  They were enough to send a cruiser down from full to somewhere between third to half health.

Today we have officers, but only up to ten, and we cannot have a fleet with more than 25 ships, and the enemy can combine forces into a simulator-sized fight.  Swarmers do not cut it anymore for serious fights.

I would like to have the fighters' unlimited two-shot version of the Swarmers.
Logged

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2016, 10:04:40 AM »

For the ammo limit, you could order full retreat then redeploy them.

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7173
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2016, 12:02:38 PM »

@goduranus

Doesn't retreating cost double the CR? Or is that only retreating at the overworld level? I've forgotten...
Logged

majorfreak

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2016, 06:47:14 PM »

For the ammo limit, you could order full retreat then redeploy them.

ohhhh...didn't know that. just assumed that reinforcements come from the pool that was separate than those that retreated. hmmm...well, that makes harpoons certainly more attractive. i dunno though, since you could do the min/max thing and totally spam Atropos that way. i'd suggest being something we could disable in the settings
Logged

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2016, 08:32:38 PM »

It's not an exploite, you'd need to retreat and end battle, then lose more CR to deploy them again to reload missiles. But with good combat skills, you could deploy certain ship in several battles before they start risking malfunction.

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2016, 07:47:50 AM »

Starsector is like a boxing match.

The problem with retreat and reengage for another round is you lose loot from the ships you destroyed for that round you just lost.  You may get XP from all rounds you fought, but you only get the loot from the rounds you win.  If you want all of the loot, you must win every round.

If not for that, I would retreat when peak performance times out if I think staying in to finish the fight would drain too much CR.  I do not retreat because I want it all - loot and XP!
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2016, 09:44:10 AM »

Quote
are you SURE plain flaks and not dual flaks?
Yes.  Dual Flaks do not increase your chances of shooting down Reapers or Harpoon swarms atm.  They're almost a complete downgrade for the OPs and Flux costs.  They are not double the protection, or anywhere near that.
I overlooked this!

I agree that dual flak is (probably) not double the protection, but that is where the agreement ends.  Dual flak seems to be much more effective at PD due to how fast it fires.  Also, dual flak is an excellent close-range weapon.  If enemy has been reduced to hull, or simply has paper-thin defenses (e.g., fighters, some frigates), dual flak will eat whatever is in the way.  Dual-flak is a multi-role weapon - best PD weapon in the game, and excellent DPS despite fragmentation damage type.

Also, single flak can have trouble stopping some sustained and/or evasive missile barrages.  That is, flak fires once, then more missiles come in before single flak can fire again.  Dual flak fires rapidly enough for this not to be a problem.  I always use dual flak over single flak if I can afford the OP cost.  That said, single-flak provides good PD and is an excellent low-OP-budget weapon.
Logged

Deshara

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1578
  • Suggestion Writer
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2016, 12:27:41 PM »

For the ammo limit, you could order full retreat then redeploy them.

ohhhh...didn't know that. just assumed that reinforcements come from the pool that was separate than those that retreated. hmmm...well, that makes harpoons certainly more attractive. i dunno though, since you could do the min/max thing and totally spam Atropos that way. i'd suggest being something we could disable in the settings

Auxiliary kite, quad a troposphere,  expanded missile racks advanced ecms and 10 missile spec = 10,000 damage per engagement all at once for 4 supplies an engagement. Roll up, plow through everything you can with 8 a troposphere then retreat and re-engineering.  It is soooo satisfying to scuttle an entire battlegroup with a pair of ultra-strike shuttles.
Just a shame the AI doesn't know how to use torpedoes
Logged
Quote from: Deshara
I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2016, 01:05:44 AM »

That's actually a very neat idea, use them low cost  shuttles with omni mounts to carry missiles for massive damage.

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2016, 06:08:50 AM »

That worked better when Logistics was our fleet soft limit.  I do not think I want a fleet of shuttles with the 25 ship hard limit.
Logged

Deshara

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1578
  • Suggestion Writer
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2016, 01:26:17 PM »

Why would you need 200 Atropos?  What could you possibly have done to need that
Logged
Quote from: Deshara
I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12117
    • View Profile
Re: going all vents on a Dominator (solved)
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2016, 05:01:52 PM »

Today, Atropos is fast, accurate, and powerful.  Atropos is like a super Harpoon - they kills things easily!  I would like to mount them (and light needlers and other rare and powerful weapons) on a lot of ships, and I do have dozens of ships by endgame.  Atropos is rare, unfortunately.

In earlier versions that featured Logistics, Mercury was worth 0.5 Logistics, and with 100 Logistics maximum possible, you could literally have dozens of them (in theory).  Mercury has terrible stats, and cannot use ballistics or energy weapons very effectively with poor flux stats.  However, they have universal mounts, and can mount missiles.  With only missiles, Mercury does not need to bother with flux much or need to add otherwise mandatory hullmods like ITU.  The idea is to deploy a Mercury-turned-missileboat, kill a few ships, then get out.  Repeat until enemy fleet is dead.

Atropos was not very good back then.  Usable with max Missile Specialization, but otherwise outclassed by better options.  But, Mercury with up to twelve Atropos can kill two or three ships before needing to retreat.  All at the cost of one 0.5 Logistics ship.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5