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News:

Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: 4 years....  (Read 22965 times)

zurv

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2016, 07:51:21 AM »

I'm just sad because i want to play it :)

for ref, i bought the game is august 2011 :) But it was only $10 then... till it is finished (or close to it) i'll just keep waiting.
It would be nice if we had a guess to when it might be done. Honestly i totally forgot about the game till the Giantbomb did a video of it the other day. "Hey, this looks like something I've seen before.. hrmm" :)
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Draken

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2016, 01:07:19 PM »


(Regarding the "hiring a small team" bit, that... well, it wouldn't work for a large number of reasons. I feel like this has come up before, but here's a quick list: 1) not nearly enough money, 2) can't just find good people with a similar vision quickly, which ties into #1 and makes things take longer, 3) it's a creative endeavor and throwing more bodies at the problem is more likely to hurt than help in terms of overall quality, even if - and that's a big if - that helps it reach a "finished" state more quickly.)

I really appreciate all the support here, by the way. Thank you!

Alex,

I want to start by saying that I think you are an excellent developer and a good person based on both the quality of the product you put out and the interaction that you have with the community here on the forums so please do not take anything I say personally, but I do think it needs to be said.  

You made a commitment to us, the customers, when you chose to charge money for an unfinished product.  Now as I've said before, I think the quality of Starsector and the amount of enjoyment I got out of it more than justifies that price but I know that is not true for everyone.  And even if it is, there is still an expectation that you would live up to the standards that you set out for yourself and provided to us at the start of the project.  

Starsector has been in development for a long time and at this point the slow pace of development is hurting the game and your brand.  GiantBomb did a video preview of the game today.  Here are a all of the quotes from the comments that have to do with the game -

1) Hey it's this game. I bought it back when it was still called whatever it was. I forgot the name of it, so thanks for the reminder. It's crazy that it's not out yet. It seemed pretty nice back then.?

2) I just realized I have a preorder code for Starfarer in my Gmail from August 2011. I had totally forgotten this game was even a thing, and now I'm kind of annoyed it's been almost 5 years and it's still not out.?

3) this game has been in development forever?

Every other comment is unrelated to the game.  Every comment posted that had anything to do with the game complained about the long development time.  This thread does as well.  The post above mine does as well.  

With that out of the way - your comment from above

1) not nearly enough money - There are a number of ways to raise funds - from Kickstarter and similar sites, Steam Early Access sales, investors etc.  This is a difficult process and I understand that but the number of avenues available to Indie games is at an all time high.  

2) can't just find good people with a similar vision quickly, which ties into #1 and makes things take longer - This is true of every business in the world.  It is not an excuse or a reason to not hire a team.

3) it's a creative endeavor and throwing more bodies at the problem is more likely to hurt than help in terms of overall quality, even if - and that's a big if - that helps it reach a "finished" state more quickly. - This is simply not true.  Ignoring the fact that 99% of every game ever has been made by a team, you already use a team.  Art and music are contracted out and have not hurt the quality of the game.  

It is clear that you cannot deliver a game of the scope and quality that you want with your current resources in a reasonable amount of time.  

I want Starsector to be a success and I know that you do as well.  But the current development pace is making that harder and harder.  The space game category is not the barren wasteland that it was a few years ago and competitors are plentiful.  The opinions of people who own the game are starting to turn sour, and speaking personally - I cannot recommend the game to any of my friends simly due to how slow development has been.  I am confident that this is true of other people as well.  

You may not agree with me or my assessment but I hope that you atleast give it due consideration.

PS - Pardon the formatting, and grammar/rambling nature of it, I wrote it over a quick break at work.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2016, 01:46:32 PM »

You're asking him to suddenly swap workflow and take a huge financial risk for the chance of a faster release.  It doesn't seem worth it at this stage.
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arcibalde

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2016, 01:53:55 PM »

And reading comments from:
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/unfinished-starsector-05032016/2300-11170/
i didnt catch that grim vibe for game dev cycle aka taking to long to finish.
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Draken

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2016, 02:11:23 PM »

And reading comments from:
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/unfinished-starsector-05032016/2300-11170/
i didnt catch that grim vibe for game dev cycle aka taking to long to finish.

I was referring to the comments on the video itself, sorry for not being clear.
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Draken

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2016, 02:20:27 PM »

You're asking him to suddenly swap workflow and take a huge financial risk for the chance of a faster release.  It doesn't seem worth it at this stage.

You may be right that it is too late for it to make a big difference at this stage, but the game as it stands is still years away at the current rate of progress, despite being in development for around 6 years already.  At some point you have to take a risk.

The below is very subjective, feel free to ignore -

At this point the Giant Bomb video has a higher than average dislike ratio on Youtube, the reddit thread about it was down voted and buried, no prominent Youtuber is giving it coverage, and this is not the 1st time a thread like this has gained traction in the forums.  If the game takes several more years to release it will not succeed.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
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Grievous69

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2016, 02:23:41 PM »

''Every comment posted that had anything to do with the game complained about the long development time.''

Literally 3 comments are saying that. Also it's just Youtube comments, people sh*t on everything, most of the time for no real reason. Personally, I'd take a polished game that took forever to release over some rushed cash grab any day, and I'm sure there are others who think alike.
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boogada

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2016, 07:15:41 PM »

How many 'finished' $60 games have you bought 4+ years ago that you don't even think about anymore?  I paid $10 for this a few years ago, play the new releases and some mods every once and a while, I feel like I made out like a bandit on this game.
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Soren

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2016, 07:45:51 PM »

Yeah, I weighed the chances of the game never getting finished vs. how much I thought I would enjoy it and went for it, and as ten-dollar purchases go, I think it was one of the better ones I've made.

It might be possible to accelerate development by a little bit, but probably not by a lot; adding more man-hours doesn't automatically mean faster development. I'm okay with slow (I have so many other games I haven't played through), and a lot of mods are going to get polished up in that time, too. I think slow development would be a bigger problem if the game were leaning on Steam Greenlight or Kickstarter funding, both models that generate a lot of shallow involvement that can quickly turn sour.
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ValkyriaL

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2016, 12:30:42 AM »

I'm pretty sure Starsector will get finished, im guessing mid 2017 or start of 2018 for a full release, which is fine, I've got plenty of things to keep me entertained, and when it does come out, I wouldn't expected any less than max reviews when it hits steam and a minimum of 9/10 on critic sites. :)
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Deshara

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2016, 09:36:45 AM »

As is this game entertains me more than anything else and has for 5 months straight now. The fact that I'm gonna get more of this game for years to come is only a good thing to me. See the glass as being half full, man, it's just a matter of perspective
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Andy H.K.

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2016, 10:30:22 AM »

How about just let Alex focus on making the game instead of dealing with distractions like this and then maybe we would get to play the full game sooner? Since when does Alex disappoint you, with his brilliant game design concepts and prompt response to bug reports? The way I see it, the long development of Starsector is not a sign of Alex taking his time or slacking, but that he makes no compromise in the quality of his creation!
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Aik

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2016, 01:11:45 AM »

Normally I can't stand people throwing the word 'entitlement' around like it's a terrible thing but holychrist the entitlement. So you paid ten bucks four years ago and you got a game for it, and have been getting considerable upgrades to that game for free the whole time - what more do you expect? If Alex declared the game was finished tomorrow it wouldn't look out of place alongside anything else you'd find out there commercially available from an indie studio.

And why would it be expected that he should hire people to work on his game? Take any other artform - no one says to George RR Martin 'hey, you're taking too damn long - hire another writer and get on with it!'. People would be angry if he did that. Why should a game be treated differently? Contracting out things he can't do himself is one thing, but why would he be expected to hire someone to work on stuff that he can do himself and has been working on all along?

I don't think Starsector is being made purely as a product of a business to be sold anyway - if that's the idea then it's been managed terribly and Alex should be drowning in cash from overpromising Kickstarters and Steam early access by now. In a time when so-called 'indie' studios can throw around money and hire people to make their games for them, people seem to have lost respect for actual independent development where the creative driving force for the game is the same people who are making it.

I just don't understand the mindset of people who think they are owed updates faster. What exactly do you think you were promised when you bought the game?
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Cycerin

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2016, 08:54:45 AM »

no one says to George RR Martin 'hey, you're taking too damn long - hire another writer and get on with it!'. People would be angry if he did that.

This has been happening consistently, for a very long time on almost every forum I've seen ASOIAF discussed in.
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Dri

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Re: 4 years....
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2016, 09:48:47 AM »

What exactly do you think you were promised when you bought the game?

Actually, as has already been said in this thread, at one point Alex had something along the lines of "I'm not Blizzard, this won't take forever." This was found on either the FAQ or Buy page, so yeah, that gave the impression that this wasn't going to take 4+ years. Whoops!

Now, apparently Alex has finally reached the stage were he can start adding major and fun features he has been planning for ages so hopefully this means more patches and fewer 8 month waits.
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