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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.12.3b  (Read 505745 times)

MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #735 on: August 06, 2020, 08:59:43 PM »

Are you *positive* both Starsector itself, and GraphicsLib are up to date?

cjuicy

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #736 on: August 07, 2020, 12:16:23 AM »

I can tell you that IFed Legacy should be nowhere near your modlist. I was around when the original mod was actually maintained, and I can safely say that the current iteration of it hasn't been updated at all. Didn't actually realize that someone brought it past 0.7.2. GK Sector should also be removed too, as it hasn't had a proper patch in over a year IIRC.

Other then that I'm not too sure on what to do with that list. Please double-check that all your libraries are up to date, and that you aren't doing the thing I do every time I update and forget to grab LazyLib.  :D
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maxi1.1

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #737 on: August 08, 2020, 10:47:01 AM »

I am certain that Starsector is 0.9.1a RC8. Last download was from the blogpost March 10 2019. I have also doublechecked the libraries again. Even did a complete delete and reinstall of graphicslib as you suggested. Lazylib and the other libs are up to date and active.

Regarding IFed Legacy and the mod list in general: I had a few mods installed but not active. They must have appeared in the mod list. Ifed was one of those. I have appended a new mod list with only the ship weapon pack as listed, but not currently active. The deleted mods are: Fix empty planets, Fuel syphoning, IFed legacy, Power dolls portrait 1 +2, Sanguainary Defectors.

Just for my understanding: Could the reason for the crash be that this mod tries to "take" some content from another mod to spawn an IBB bounty? As far as I undertand this here mod is the master for IBB bounties. It connects to other mods and creates IBB bounties with some of their content. I think this might be the issue! Page one of this thread has a listing of all IBB bounty mod connections. Is that the defenitive list? I could use that list and check all referenced mods for their update status. Does this list also contain up to date info on what minimum update status each mod needs to be compatible with the Ship Weapon pack mod? If there is a different list, please inform me. I will now see about updating the other mods.

Thank you for your input.
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maxi1.1

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #738 on: August 08, 2020, 11:50:54 AM »

Solution found!

During the re-installation of Starsector.exe an error appeared: Some files could not be overwritten. -> Repeat - fail, ignore, next file comes up. Among those files were some audio.jar files and a few others. I was surprised. Deleted the whole starsector directory except for the mods and saves directories. Previously I had a folder called "installer" under Starsector, from where I ran the setup.exe. Deleted that folder too, started the .exe from the Partition d:\.  Reinstalled, no errors.

After trying all kinds of combinations of active and inactive mods: Pre-install Not even Ship/wep + 2 necessary libs would start. Post-install that worked. Started a new test character: Mod works, the Contendor cannon was available at the starting market.

Readded all of my mods (including GKSec) and started again. Everything worked without a flaw.

One thing I would like to report though: When I went through the lists of mods that 091a or just 09a or older, the mod index page turned out to be inaccurate! There were a few mods listed as 09a in the index. Upon entereing the thread it was listed as 091a though. The mods concerned were Neutrino, and Stopgap. Is this the correct place to mention this or do I have to bring this information to someone else?

I deleted the mods Fringe Defence Syndicate and Vesperon. Their index entry of 09a was correct.

Short summary:
Fix: Complete deletion of Starsector folder + new installation of base game
Information that brought about fix: During reinstallation of game on existing folder, some x.jar files were inaccessible.
Assumed problem:    Some main files of Starsector were somehow rendered inaccessible or slightly bad. Only ShipWep pack somehow triggered the fail condition. The mod itself is not defective.

Thank you all very much for helping me and giving me some of your most precious resource: Time. Have a good one. :)
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #739 on: August 09, 2020, 09:49:10 AM »

Phew!  I'm sorry you had such trouble, but I'm glad you got it resolved. Happy hunting!
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peppermeth

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #740 on: August 13, 2020, 03:21:34 PM »

Is their a chance to find blueprint for the cathedral hub ship by raiding luddit church/path colonie? Or do i have to find it by exploring?
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e

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #741 on: August 13, 2020, 09:46:33 PM »

Is their a chance to find blueprint for the cathedral hub ship by raiding luddit church/path colonie? Or do i have to find it by exploring?

Only Luddich Church colonies can drop the bp, you can also find it by exploring.
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JohnVicres

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #742 on: August 17, 2020, 12:06:24 PM »

Welp, I decided to post some thoughts and feelings about my experience with this (superb) mod, specifically some suggestions.

So, first of all, I think some ships could be made more unique, or just appealing to be used:

Spoiler
- The Beholder is just a waste of resources atm, since it is almost harmless, and super-mega-blaster exposed on the rear. making the drones able to turn helps a lot, and with built-in Hardened Shields (and extending them a bit), it becomes a neat lil' wall for enemies to face, to be combined with carriers or missile ships.

- I adore the Circe, simply because it looks so cool, but it's very underwhelming in it's effective loadout possibilities. I built-in Accelerated Shields and PDAI to it, so you can use the small mounts freely; they'll always be PD-able, and the shield, although small, becomes very versatile.

- For the Vindicator (S), I changed the guns dramatically: Gungnir now has a 5-shot magazine, that recharges almost as fast as it reloads, therefore sustained fire is the same, but the volley ability will exhaust your ammo. Also made it's sub-ammo have a small EMP effect, changed the built-in DTC for ITU because yes, brought it closer to the other variant OP-wise, gave it more flux dissipation (it should have more than the modified Vindi, since that one focuses on missiles), and increased the top speed, so it can keep up with battlecruisers at least.

- Axed the Vulture's PD drones, for Maneuvering Jets instead. Just feels more adequate for a fast cruiser. I did think of adding the drones as an in-built wing, but dropped it because that felt a bit too much.

- Gave the Legion and Onslaught built-in Blast Doors, and changed the Onslaught's TPC recharge rate to 4 seconds, 4 ammo per recharge. I know this mod doesn't touch them really, but now they're much more competitive and dangerous, while still feeling, well... low tech.

Maybe I changed more, but tbh I didn't write it down till now, so this is what I remember.
[close]

Second, modified some weapons, though not many, and not much.
Spoiler
- Made Phase Lances viable, I chose to make their damage/flux cost a 1/1 ratio, per the cost: aka, hits like a searing spear, but overheats you like one would, too. Could do the other way around, and lower their flux cost.

- Changed magazine recharging for the Autopulse and Ion Pulser, kinda the same way as with the TPC: Autopulse recharges 3 shots per 1.5s, Ion Pulser recharges 4 shots per 2s.

- Increased Vulcan range to 300. Now it's actually decent at PD.

I know most of these changes are to vanilla weapons, but I decided to put em here anyway.
[close]

One last bicker:
Why is the mini-blaster sfx so low? They seem soundless in the heat of battle, that ticks me a bit.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #743 on: August 17, 2020, 12:20:36 PM »

Quote
I know most of these changes are to vanilla weapons, but I decided to put em here anyway.

But why?

Dark.Revenant is a fine man, but he is not the one, who could (or should) modify vanilla values.
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Terethall

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #744 on: August 17, 2020, 05:07:44 PM »

There are a lot of good ideas in those suggestions, including the vanilla tweaks, JohnVicres. Do you feel like making a mini-mod with those, dependent on having a SWP install? I'm betting other users would enjoy those changes as well.
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Julio Montega

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #745 on: August 19, 2020, 11:26:43 AM »

This pack rocks!

I wondered why there is no pirate refit of the vulture though, revolving around ballistics and the burn drive.
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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #746 on: August 19, 2020, 12:09:45 PM »

Ok so, a long time i gave an opinion on the Cathedral Class Hubship and honestly i didn't give it a fair shake at the time, this time i've been using it for a very long time and now i can give an educated opinion and suggestions for it, I divided this into three parts so you can skip the boring stuff:

What it's NOT
-With a total of only 3 large ballistic slots and a comparably modest amount of medium slots; the cathedral is NOT a gunship in the slightest and should avoid direct confrontation if possible. That is not to say it can't defend itself, what i mean is that you should not spearhead an assault with the Cathedral.
-With a total of four fighter bays, the ship in theory could perform well as a bomber/heavy fighter support, but that would be incorrect. Because the fighter wings are spread out the segments will not coordinate an attack together. The hangars can be used as bombers and will be decent, but not great. Ideally, you want to devote the hangars to interceptors or stuff that compliments point defense. The core, forget it. (more on that later)
-For a ship of it's size it, understandably, has somewhat poor flux management, to be confortable with the cathedral you gotta invest A LOT into it's flux management, specially so if you intend to use it for direct engagement, which you shouldn't.
[close]

The Good
The one thing the Cathedral is EXTREMELY good at is missile support, specially if you have mods like Imperium or Kadur Remnant which add missile batteries with infinite ammo that can be launched from extreme ranges, suddenly it all clicks together:
-A missile capacity that can rival that of more than two capital ships combined.
-Enough gun power to protect itself against a variety of threats should something get past the frontline to sneak against it.
-Very useful mines for extra support.
-Full sized shield which will deter occasional threats.
-Potentially uncontested PD capabilities.

The support it gives while behind combat ships is unmatched and has enough power to heavily spam missiles on several target and being an overall annoyance with mine strikes.
[close]

Problems and Suggestions
Problem: The fighter wings on the core are a newbie trap and should be avoided entirely, even if you have mods that give you 0 OP cost fighters; because maintaining, replacing and managing fighters costs flux, which you CANNOT on the Cathedral, because when you engage, which you inevitably WILL no matter what; your shield will be your deciding winning factor for those confrontations. You also can't really afford the OP on the core to get actually good interceptors as there are A BUNCH of priorities far more important than a couple of fighters.

Suggestion: Have those two fighter wings removed entirely from the core and replace them with something else, anything else is better.

Not really other major problems with it, however, some insight:
-I always play the cathedral with Makeshift Shield Generator on all of it's modules and that extra layer of defense has become fundamental for my play style with it.
-The hangars seem to lag behind in terms of usefulness regardless of how i decide to devote them.
-I gave Hardened Subsystems to the core in hopes that it can last during very extended encounters, but i found out that the modules themselves follow their own combat readiness rules instead of those of the core which seems weird.
-Luddic Church is hasn't been spawning Cathedrals at all, they only employ Legions as their capital ship for anything, this also seems weird as nothing else in my game is behaving strangely and i haven't really touched anything on the mod files. Also can't find if it's the result of a conflict between other mods.
[close]

Thanks.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #747 on: August 19, 2020, 12:45:44 PM »

    Oh, almost forgot. My experience with cathedrals:
 Full list of builds, I found useful:
  • Logistic hub with ADF, efficiency overhaul, surveying equipment etc... and a bunch of defensive hullmods and mounts. Built around cap sized salvage gauntry, frankly said.
[close]

Some bad words.
Can cathedral be deadly on the battlefield? Sure thing, it can! But you can use some Paragons or Victories instead with better specific "kill-em-all" value per DP spent and they also would be cheaper and faster. Cathedrals are serious threat in enemy fleet, as AI does not optimized for battles with such targets, so enemy cathedrals could be a source of casualties, but when it's in player's fleet under AI control - they rater hindrance, you need to get around.

I wouldn't say cathedral is bad or should be changed, as it is actually damn well-made thing, verified and balanced. Just see no place for them in my fleet other than logistic, alas.
[close]
[/list]
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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #748 on: August 19, 2020, 02:22:00 PM »

I wouldn't say cathedral is bad or should be changed, as it is actually damn well-made thing, verified and balanced. Just see no place for them in my fleet other than logistic, alas.

Not gonna lie, i was like this at first as well, until i got bored an decided to experiment with it with some ridiculous builds and simulations and then put as many missiles as possible (in this case Kadur's VLRMs) and by the end of the test i was like "wow... this is actually kind of good".

The Cathedral is meant for max size battles, for starters, where you at the very least start with 200 deploy points. You deploy 2 capital ships (40-50 dp each) that have good frontal fire power (again, Kadur, but Onslaught also works) and the Cath is right behind (85 dp). This effectively prevents your two assault ships from being surrounded while at the same time being a missile spam of absurd proportions. This only really works as long as the fleet sticks together.

And the plus is that you get a combat warship that has some utilitarian functions outside of combat. It has like... a SINGLE niche? sure, but that one thing it does, it does it very well.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.11.0
« Reply #749 on: August 19, 2020, 09:04:14 PM »

Monday has the right of it; the Cathedral's actual purpose (in lore) is logistics, exploration, colonization.  The Luddic Church just co-opted them as emergency beatsticks.

As for the rest...
I wouldn't thumb my nose at the fighter bays.  They are a significant contributor to the ship's overall firepower.  You're correct that the Cathedral is not an anti-capital brawler, but it can deal with a lot of smaller (cruiser/destroyer) ships at the same time.  Even if that's not enough for you, if you have the Cathedral hanging back shooting missiles, why not mount Thunders or some other long range fighter?  It's not like you'll be fighting directly much.

Fighters don't cost flux.  An engage order has a tiny flux cost, canceling the 0 flux boost, but regroup-ordered fighters don't have any flux cost.

And for the earlier suggestions...
The Beholder is a specialist anti-small-craft ship.  It's meant to escort a ship, keeping the exposed rear to an ally rather than an enemy.  Plus if the drones could fire in any direction, they'd mass-up way too effectively; those tac lasers fire over allies.  I just did a couple fleet tests with Custom Battle to see how it did, and I didn't see a problem.  It eats missiles for breakfast.  It's not meant to be a good brawler, but it actually scored a 1v1 destroyer kill too.
The Circe isn't really meant to be a super effective combatant.  It's stupidly fast, which would make any kind of truly effective layout Too Good.
The Vindicator S is a gimmick ship and has awkward flux stats intentionally.  DTC was chosen over ITU because the built-in weapon is meant to be its main rangefinder.
Vulture is a fast cruiser because its unmodified speed beats every vanilla cruiser, and most destroyers while it's at it.  It's as hard to kite as a Falcon.  The PD drones are a throwback that allows it to have some ablative defense and some added kick in a knife fight (those drones do a lot of kinetic damage).
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