Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

Pages: 1 ... 34 35 [36] 37 38 ... 40

Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4  (Read 287011 times)

CrixM

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #525 on: September 09, 2019, 05:49:04 AM »

The cathedral is sometimes a lot of fun, other times you just slowly move it across the map because the AI refuses to engage it. I'm never quite sure what to put in its hangers. I had tried interceptors but they would just end up constantly reloading if they had missiles racks absolutely wrecking your fighter gauge, even if they weren't being destroyed. It's surprisingly a lot weaker than I had thought. Maybe I'll try changing the core to be more missile focused, I wonder how the redeemer would fair with ECCM.

That being said, with these new balance changes it seems a lot better. Not eating up all your deployment points is a great change. I don't think it needs any more buffs.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 05:55:03 AM by CrixM »
Logged

cathar

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • ludd is bae
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #526 on: September 10, 2019, 04:16:48 AM »

Is there a specific way the IBBs are triggered?

I am currently on a Diable Avionics playthrough and would really like that specific faction's IBB to come up. Character is on level 63 and the last IBB I got was the all-phase ship one, if that is important in any way.

Sorry if this has been explained before at some point.
Logged

Sinigr

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #527 on: September 11, 2019, 04:44:12 AM »

Seriously, Sinigr, have you ever considered that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? I can't imagine any situation where calling someone's decisions stupid would make them want to consider your "recommendations". Is this how you interact with people in real life? Smh
Maybe it is my bad english, but Cathedral is not strong ship at all, and that cruisers range just killes it, you do not agree with it?
Logged
"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png

Sinigr

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #528 on: September 11, 2019, 05:17:12 AM »

Changing text.

Cathedral.

1) Do you know that it's modules have cruiser's bonus of weapon range from targeting cores, it is very bad, some other capital ship can hit it, when Cathedral's weapon range do not reaches that target and can not confront it whith it's guns, why you made so?
Also, notice that for 85 deployment pts it gives just one capital ECM rating, that gives more range advantage for enemy.

2) When modules are shielded by main module, they use their armor system, so they just use it for nothing, it is not good.

3) So, as you see, for better offensive player should use paragon or other similar ship with capital range, and as result more ECM bonus.

4) So, Cathedral is utility ship, it is your goal? You can create one offensive modification without surveying equipment, operation center, sensors, salvage gantry, but with capital range, and i think, built in ECM module can be good.
Logged
"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png

Hrothgar

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #529 on: September 11, 2019, 05:21:46 AM »

The Cathedral is mainly intended to anchor the fleet, i.e. be right behind the front line to provide support and fill in holes where needed.  The Luddic Church doesn't really use it that way because of lack of capital ship variety, but that's the intent.

Ah ok, i see, thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments, i really like the mod and felt the needs to at least give it some input. can't really comment about anything else besides the two ships i already mentioned.

Well in Tahlan mod Luddics get Castella and Castella LP. Cathar cruiser is also a decent ship, dunno from what. Luddics will never put anything major in term of BB, if you stick to lore. Even this battleships are i think stretch for poor religion fanatics.
Logged

Sinigr

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #530 on: September 11, 2019, 05:28:23 AM »

First off I'm going have to ask you to stop putting your foot in your mouth right there. If you're gonna do some criticism, do it in a more civilized and coherent way so the modder will know what's up. Calling them stupid or something along the line is never going to look good.
Paragons can be countered if you apply enough pressure to force it to use Fortress Shield often and it's bound to overload at some point or another.
1. If the Cathedral's modules is gonna have a 60% range boost from ITU, why not make it a 100% from ATC even? That's gonna be make the ship going to be even more OP as it's nothing different from a station on steroids.
2. Okay, using their armor system for nothing, what do you mean by that?
3 and 4. Nope, not even valid points. If the Cathedral is not modular then it's just going back to the way it was in .8.1a, and that ship back then was already too big and uninteresting to pilot to begin with. Not to mention the AI is gonna have a hard time piloting a ship of that size in battle.
1) 100% it is paragon's feature, 60% is enough, whith 60% it will not become OP, see some post above where I explained why that cruiser's range is so bad. Look, it has Hephaestus gun, that onslaught shoot safely, cathedral can not shoot and can not catch up onslaught.
2) I made some picture, look how it is going, first module is shielded by main module, so it do not get any damage, yes? But it turnes on it's armor system to avoid damage that is not present, so system was turned on for nothing.
3) If autor wants let players to use paragon for much better offensive advantage, let it be so.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 05:47:23 AM by Sinigr »
Logged
"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png

Takion Kasukedo

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 478
  • A Mojito Drinker
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #531 on: September 11, 2019, 08:32:09 AM »

That is because, as someone has elaborated before, the Cathedral is a fleet anchor/support ship.

Hence why it also has Mine Strike. To help the fleet in situations that could prove dire. The Redeemer is also high-range due to this.

As for the armor system, that's just how the AI works.

Also, please explain why the ship exactly is without an outfit to express this point of yours (1)? Have you even tested it properly?
Logged
Y'know, Mojito's are pretty rad.

[Attempting to redo Discount Ships. Works on variants/new Gladiator Society Bounties in their past-time.]
[Unsure if rights are held for TL. Contact Thule for more info.]

Shad

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #532 on: September 11, 2019, 09:06:42 AM »

1) Do you know that it's modules have cruiser's bonus of weapon range from targeting cores, it is very bad, some other capital ship can hit it, when Cathedral's weapon range do not reaches that target and can not confront it whith it's guns, why you made so?
Also, notice that for 85 deployment pts it gives just one capital ECM rating, that gives more range advantage for enemy.
Well, yes. The Cathedral is powerful enough, capital-grade ITU would make it completely broken. Cathedral has a reloading long range missle system built in, it has 4 hangar bays, it has mine strike built in, it has a lot of slots for long long-range missile pressure. It doesn't need extra long range bonuses.

Quote
2) When modules are shielded by main module, they use their armor system, so they just use it for nothing, it is not good.
This is so minor, it's basically irrelevant. But this is more an AI problem.

Quote
3) So, as you see, for better offensive player should use paragon or other similar ship with capital range, and as result more ECM bonus.
Depends for what. If you want to tachyon beam everything, then yes, Paragon is the way to go. The paragon does not have all these support mods built in though. It does not have the carrier capacity either.

Quote
4) So, Cathedral is utility ship, it is your goal? You can create one offensive modification without surveying equipment, operation center, sensors, salvage gantry, but with capital range, and i think, built in ECM module can be good.
Then it would become yet another capital giant beam machine. Like there's a shortage of those in other mods.
Logged

Hrothgar

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #533 on: September 11, 2019, 09:17:52 AM »

Everyone want to make every ship very powerfull. But then, well, everything is the same.

Listen about my bootiful Cathar class cruisers.

I was a almost on beggar level in one of playthrough. remnant broke most of my ships and i was basically crippled in term of most bigger ship , cruiser and above.

Then i picked up fight as support in fight with Luddic fleet on side of Persean League or Kadur if i remember correctly . Some yellow-orange faction.
I got from this fight two Cathar ships. They were not op, they were not pretty. Ragtag of weapons and some d-mods. But they were a great anchor to get up from hole i was.  From this moment i like this ships. I dont had luck finding them or dropping them, but i like this ships. They're decent cruisers, but not op, not by longshot. They have bult in dedicated core, but they're hulking and their big gun is front only. But they served me well.

I like ships which are not op, i dont like Paragon, hell, i used a Prometheus II in my playthrough and they were quite decent. Of course in playthrough i got more weapons to tinker on this hulls, but point is, not every ship need to be op. Not every ship need to be great. I even dare say that if ship dont have at least one weakness it is bad ship. Paragon weakness is it cost. 60 points is big cost, most battleships is on 40-50 points lvl.
Logged

Sinigr

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #534 on: September 11, 2019, 10:10:14 AM »

Also, please explain why the ship exactly is without an outfit to express this point of yours (1)? Have you even tested it properly?
Some day i where testing it, trying to use it before, because it has interesting module structure, there where same results, (using paragon, or onslaught is much more better and offensive), but i was lazy to make that post, now i got one cathedral more, also i see that Cathedral is changings so i said what i see. Such support ship for 85 deployment? Better i will use just paragons, or redact cathedral modules giving tham status of capital ship, but it is not interesting if that will be made by me.

Make video of battle 1 Cathedral 29 lvl with 2(two) onslaughts 14 29 lvl, and look, can it win them or not. But make good onslaught's loadouts, not 100500 flak cannons how someone do it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 10:19:27 AM by Sinigr »
Logged
"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png

Sinigr

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #535 on: September 11, 2019, 10:22:25 AM »

Quote
4) So, Cathedral is utility ship, it is your goal? You can create one offensive modification without surveying equipment, operation center, sensors, salvage gantry, but with capital range, and i think, built in ECM module can be good.
Quote
Then it would become yet another capital giant beam machine. Like there's a shortage of those in other mods.
Just take that Cathedral and try to fight 2+ big remnant's fleets, better with officers in each ship and 26+ lvl, because you can get all skills for ship, and ai with officers 20 lvl not.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 10:26:21 AM by Sinigr »
Logged
"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png

MajorTheRed

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #536 on: September 11, 2019, 11:59:17 AM »

Everyone want to make every ship very powerfull. But then, well, everything is the same.

Listen about my bootiful Cathar class cruisers.

I was a almost on beggar level in one of playthrough. remnant broke most of my ships and i was basically crippled in term of most bigger ship , cruiser and above.

Then i picked up fight as support in fight with Luddic fleet on side of Persean League or Kadur if i remember correctly . Some yellow-orange faction.
I got from this fight two Cathar ships. They were not op, they were not pretty. Ragtag of weapons and some d-mods. But they were a great anchor to get up from hole i was.  From this moment i like this ships. I dont had luck finding them or dropping them, but i like this ships. They're decent cruisers, but not op, not by longshot. They have bult in dedicated core, but they're hulking and their big gun is front only. But they served me well.

I like ships which are not op, i dont like Paragon, hell, i used a Prometheus II in my playthrough and they were quite decent. Of course in playthrough i got more weapons to tinker on this hulls, but point is, not every ship need to be op. Not every ship need to be great. I even dare say that if ship dont have at least one weakness it is bad ship. Paragon weakness is it cost. 60 points is big cost, most battleships is on 40-50 points lvl.

That's the first time I read someone giving thoughts about the Cathar in Stop Gap Measure. Thanks for giving some feedback!

For the sake of conversation, I think some people, especially those from the last wave coming from the last review on youtube, don't understand how most of mods are designed. Most modded ships are built around an idea and/or a specific need for the player modding it. Even the mod has something specific in mind: variety, a new faction, a feeling (like HMI). Ships don't have to be perfectly balanced, as long as they are fun to play with or against. It doesn't mean it has to be game breaking.

About the Cathar, I designed it around 2 goals : fleshing LC fleet with ships they would be able and willing to produce, and it has to be a cruiser with acces to large missile or ballistic. There you go. For my part, if a ship is OP, it's not interesting to play it. I understand some people wants the best of the best, but others people just want a good story to play in. Cathedral fall in this category, I just fell in love with the lore.
Logged

canned Tomatoes

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #537 on: September 11, 2019, 12:16:41 PM »

The cathedral is a great counter against mass fighters thanks to its mines and can spam 6 medium missiles, 2 large ones and the redeemer! And it has 4 fighters, so it is great at supporting a fleet.
Last but not least, the ship is an excellent logistical support for a large fleet or when you want to build up colonies.

Also, who would ever field that ship alone?
I mean, most big ships are getting wrecked if fielded on their own.
Play the mission "Sinking the Bismar" and see for yourself.

It already perfectly fulfills its role in the fleet.
If you want something with more dakka, go for the IBBs. There are some really nice ones that should be able to stomp most other ships in the game.
Logged

Hrothgar

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #538 on: September 11, 2019, 01:24:20 PM »

Incoming Vayra/Tahlan/other mods unique bounty ships are quite that- a ships which are little better but one of their kind.

I always liked Cathar look, especially red rust color. Color of old warships and low quality but good in quantity.

From Luddic refit ships i used very often from your mod : Martyr for it great utility as decent frigate and Templar for it toughnes and robust.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 01:26:09 PM by Hrothgar »
Logged

Sinigr

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #539 on: September 11, 2019, 05:39:20 PM »

Okey, here we have range domination by Cathedral, let it be so.
Logged
"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png
Pages: 1 ... 34 35 [36] 37 38 ... 40