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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4  (Read 304532 times)

Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.3
« Reply #510 on: August 30, 2019, 06:08:47 PM »

This mod doesn't seem to be compatible with Nexerelin. It says "Fatal: cannot find class of script". Is there a fix for this, or am I just redacted?
SWP should be fully compatible with Nex, but another mod may be broken, or you may have forgotten to install/enable LazyLib and GraphicsLib.
If the problem persists, could you post the full error message and your mod list?

I have a question, is there a list of IBB bounties? Last IBB mission i did - to kill founder of IBB (unique paragon, unique conquest, and unique onslaught). I'm done with IBB, or i just couldn't find other missions?
That's the last one, yeah.
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Nerzhull_AI

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.3
« Reply #511 on: September 01, 2019, 02:13:25 PM »

Oh, good. It was fun, last boss gave me some trouble.
On the other hand, dear god that first AI boss (with tons of upgraded phase ships) was hard to beat.
Great mod overall.
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Dark.Revenant

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[0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #512 on: September 07, 2019, 11:58:22 PM »

Just a balance pass!

Download Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
Download Mirror
(Requires LazyLib 2.4e)
(Requires GraphicsLib 1.4.1) (Updated!)

- Supported by DynaSector 1.4.6 (Not yet compatible) -
- Supported by Nexerelin 0.9.4b (Updated!) -

Git Repository

Edit SWP_OPTIONS.ini to enable or disable Ship/Weapon Pack features!



We recommend Version Checker to notify you when an update is ready.

Having problems?  Visit the Mod Troubleshooting Guide!



Change Log
Version 1.10.4
- Decreased Cathedral deployment cost to 85 from 100 and auto-resolve strength to 40 from 50
- Bumped Cathedral hull values
  * 4000 -> 6000 for hangar
  * 6000 -> 8000 for gunnery
  * 12000 -> 15000 for engine
  * 12000 -> 20000 for bastion
- Cathedral no longer loses zero flux boost if the engine section isn't at zero flux - only the core matters
- Bumped Redeemer Sub-munition HP to 200 from 75
- Tweaked CR/deploy for multiple ships to adjust the cost of full recovery
- Updated Euphoria IBB
- Reduced Zenith deployment cost to 30 from 35 and auto-resolve strength to 17 from 18
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Onyvox

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #513 on: September 08, 2019, 06:52:48 AM »

Thank you for all the mods you've made, contributed into and keeping up.

Spoiler
Cathedral buffs make me all giddy :3
[close]
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Taverius

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #514 on: September 08, 2019, 08:04:49 AM »

Suddenly I wish we had a more modern forum software so that I can block people.
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Turdicus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #515 on: September 08, 2019, 08:11:31 AM »

Seriously, Sinigr, have you ever considered that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? I can't imagine any situation where calling someone's decisions stupid would make them want to consider your "recommendations". Is this how you interact with people in real life? Smh
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #516 on: September 08, 2019, 12:32:21 PM »

Why most of you are making useless ships?
We have vanilla reference: paragon.
And there lies your problem.
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lechibang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #517 on: September 08, 2019, 07:29:47 PM »

First off I'm going have to ask you to stop putting your foot in your mouth right there. If you're gonna do some criticism, do it in a more civilized and coherent way so the modder will know what's up. Calling them stupid or something along the line is never going to look good.
Paragons can be countered if you apply enough pressure to force it to use Fortress Shield often and it's bound to overload at some point or another.
1. If the Cathedral's modules is gonna have a 60% range boost from ITU, why not make it a 100% from ATC even? That's gonna be make the ship going to be even more OP as it's nothing different from a station on steroids.
2. Okay, using their armor system for nothing, what do you mean by that?
3 and 4. Nope, not even valid points. If the Cathedral is not modular then it's just going back to the way it was in .8.1a, and that ship back then was already too big and uninteresting to pilot to begin with. Not to mention the AI is gonna have a hard time piloting a ship of that size in battle.


Cathedral.

1) Do you know that it's modules have cruiser bonus of weapon range from targeting cores, do you undestand that it is stupid?

2) When modules are shielded by main module, thay use their armor system, so they just use it for nothing, do you undestand that it is also too stupid?

3) So, as you see it is useless ship, it is garbage, no sense to use it, just using paragons, and no chance, for cathedral, to rival with it, it is normal, you think?

4) just make normal capital weapon range for modules, than, maybe, catherdral becomes qualified ship.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 08:10:00 PM by lechibang »
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Do it yourself, as people always say.

Alex

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #518 on: September 08, 2019, 08:30:05 PM »

Cathedral.

1) Do you know that it's modules have cruiser bonus of weapon range from targeting cores, do you undestand that it is stupid?

2) When modules are shielded by main module, thay use their armor system, so they just use it for nothing, do you undestand that it is also too stupid?

3) So, as you see it is useless ship, it is garbage, no sense to use it, just using paragons, and no chance, for cathedral, to rival with it, it is normal, you think?

4) just make normal capital weapon range for modules, than, maybe, catherdral becomes qualified ship.

You've got a PM.
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DarkOmegaMK2

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #519 on: September 08, 2019, 09:06:03 PM »

Hello, first time posting but i been using this mod for a couple of weeks and have some input i would like to make regarding two ships, the cathedral and nike.

First of, the cathedral's buffs are welcome, however, they are still not enough to make it worthwhile deploying, i get this is a ship that is meant to be piloted by a high level officer, but even then it struggles a lot, here are the problems with it:
1.- It is very slow, which in itself is not a problem, but this means that anything that can out range it, will hit and run vs the cathedral and the ship will have no means of countering. To counter this i suggest replacing "integrated targeting unit" for "advance targeting core" as a hull mode on all the ship sections, or at the very least, the bastion, this will mask it able to compensate for it's lack of speed (again, the speed is not the problem here) and will prevent him from being picked on and potentially out ranged by enemies.
2.- The shield is massively weak, one capital ship with some slight anti shield can force the cathedral to vent, which is not right at all. I've been forced to max venting and flux capacity on the core just to get an average shield that can still be taken down with relative ease. I suggest increasing it's venting and flux capacity for the core or adding more OP to the core.
3.- This doesn't solve a direct problem, but i suggest adding two more fighting bays to the ship, either one on each hangar or 2 on the core as well as some OP to accommodate for the addition.
4.- The bastion, being the place where most of the bigger guns are meant to be placed, could benefit heavily from having "Heavy Ballistic Integration" in it, to encourage the usage of bigger and meaner guns right on the front.

Now, moving on to Nike, i was so excited when i saw it the first time, but then i actually saw what it had to offer and found some things that disappointed me. These being:
1.- It doesn't have 8 burn unlike every other conquest.
2.- It doesn't have heavy ballistics integration, unlike every other conquest.

Nike advertises itself as a "upgraded conquest-class" and yet, technically speaking, it is far away from a conquest and not really for the better, it doesn't feel like i got "the legendary conquest", it feels more like i have "a conquest knock off".

Hope you can take some of this into account, thanks!
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #520 on: September 08, 2019, 09:19:11 PM »

I have to explain something about the Cathedral here:

Originally, it had ATC on all the modules.  It was broken as hell.  The AI could not deal with it.  Fighting it would be an exercise in frustration, and using it in your fleet would make the game too easy.  AI duels between entire groups of ships and the Cathedral routinely turned into CR wars where the Cathedral slowly ground down everything while nothing could engage it properly.

I will not be adding ATC.  I will consider changing the frontal and rear sections to Capital tier for an extra 20% range and easier OP allocation - tests pending - but ATC is out of the question.

Also, the central node has a bad shield because it's a huge armored ship that can continue fighting while the central node vents.  You're *supposed* to dedicate most of the OP of the central node to shield quality; the ship is designed with the assumption that most builds will do that.  Plus you can, uniquely, have multiple overlapping shields if need be.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #521 on: September 08, 2019, 10:01:03 PM »

While the Cathedral could perhaps use further balance tweaks here and there, as it is a *very* complex ship to balance so more iteration is not unreasonable. Its current iteration is pretty solid and it was never *that* far off though what happened to it in 1.10.4 is welcome indeed. Also listen to what Dr said about ATC, it really is unworkable heh.

Anyways, first of all if your benchmark for capital ship balance and design is the Paragon? You really don't understand SS balance and design at all... And if you expect the Cathedral to sit there and duel battleships? You also don't understand the point of the ship. While there are certainly some capitals it can in fact duel in a head-on brawl? It really isn't the point of the ship, but what it does do is provide supreme combat support.

It deploying mines, the Redeemer missile, tons of modular missile spam, fighters, and direct gunfire makes it superb at providing fire support and also acting as a meatshield for the rest of your fleet! Combined with the campaign-layer hullmods and thus assistance it provides there? It really is a damn good ship, and an interestingly designed one too :)
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DarkOmegaMK2

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #522 on: September 08, 2019, 10:13:54 PM »

Also, the central node has a bad shield because it's a huge armored ship that can continue fighting while the central node vents.  You're *supposed* to dedicate most of the OP of the central node to shield quality; the ship is designed with the assumption that most builds will do that.

That is exactly what i do actually, combined with a high level officer with all the flux related and shield related skills, more so out of necessity than out of personal preference, because otherwise i feel like a slow moving glass cannon.

I get the idea that this ship is meant to have an escort during battle, but in a lot of cases you really have to actively babysit it, otherwise it gets taken out.

IMO the flux on the cathedral is so strict that i avoid using the core's special ability entirely out of fear that i may overload and become a sitting duck. Due to it's slow speed and the fact that it's a really big target, it'll become inevitable that it'll have to tackle against more than one enemy and some of the other capital ships are better designed to tackle multiple at once enemies than the cathedral is, which i think it a big part of why people find it underwhelming in general.

It is inevitable that it'll be compared to other ships of its kind, specially considering it's DP cost.

One question i do have is: what is the cathedral meant to be exactly?
-It doesn't have neither the shield or the armor to be a proper tank
-It doesn't have enough guns to be a "glass cannon", i mean it has A LOT of guns overall, but they are all spread out and some will be out of range... which makes sense, but what i mean is, it's potential firepower can be outdone by other ships.
-It doesn't have the bays to be a proper carrier... I mean, it does, with it having four in total, but two of these are in the core and we already discussed why the core needs to focus all it's attention on shielding and flux management.
-It can take A LOT of crew so it is a good crew transport ship
-It has a lot of support abilities meant for exploration, salvaging, etc all in one convenient place.

With all this in mind, i get the idea that the cathedral is not meant to be a spearhead during battles and it is meant to just be left behind in a safe spot, while it produces Command Points incredibly quickly and sometimes engaging during low risk encounters, is this what the cathedral is meant to be played? this i how i play it at least.

I really want to like the Cathedral as a sort of "command ship" like it's tag "hub ship" would imply, but at times i find it hard to justify putting my best officer or the PC on a ship that i have to actively make it avoid big combat situations.

Sorry if it sounds like i'm ranting, i'm just leaving my feedback on something that i think could have an improvement, i also understand that balancing something so unique like this is really difficult.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #523 on: September 08, 2019, 10:36:29 PM »

The Cathedral is mainly intended to anchor the fleet, i.e. be right behind the front line to provide support and fill in holes where needed.  The Luddic Church doesn't really use it that way because of lack of capital ship variety, but that's the intent.
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DarkOmegaMK2

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4
« Reply #524 on: September 08, 2019, 10:42:34 PM »

The Cathedral is mainly intended to anchor the fleet, i.e. be right behind the front line to provide support and fill in holes where needed.  The Luddic Church doesn't really use it that way because of lack of capital ship variety, but that's the intent.

Ah ok, i see, thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments, i really like the mod and felt the needs to at least give it some input. can't really comment about anything else besides the two ships i already mentioned.
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