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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Raiding for Fun and Profit (11/27/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.4  (Read 312577 times)

tokmak333

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #480 on: July 03, 2019, 03:13:37 AM »

dont you guys think victory is too strong?
I got this loadout on Victory battleship;
Large Slots;
x2 Mark IX Autocannon (front)
x2 Aegis Flak Cannon (back)
Medium Slots;
x2 Heavy Autocannon (front)
x2 Dual Flak Turret (front)
x2 Sunfire PDE (front) - Blackrock
x4 Gridfire MRM
Small Slots;
x2 Ion Cannon
x2 PD Laser
Rest are Micro Argus PD


https://ibb.co/9wrN0sY

Thats the stats i got on lv50 character ofc its max but i got this ship when i was lv 20-25. When i was around 35 Lv I even defeated an invasion fleet that is attacking single battlestation i just sent Victory Battleship to field against 6 Onslaughts  1 or 2 Legion battlecarriers and tons of cruisers/carriers,destroyers,frigates etc. It was literally 1 Battlestation and 1 Battleship against more than 50 ship

Victory have massive frontal firepower and also enough to defend itself from ships that is flanking. Torps rarely hit the ship since it allows you to get good PD cover. It can also tank and survive most of the time, not even talking about 0.43 shield efficiency i got there.

I think only problem this ship have is its the built in weapon called "Klutotekhnes". That weapon burns up even strongest armor super quickly and dont even require that much Flux. DPS is too much that can wipe out Cruisers within 10 seconds along with other weapons. I think "Klutotekhnes" needs to get nerfed, maybe it should become sniper weapon(firing slow less dps high alpha) like Imperium Caesar Battleship that have long range sniper weapon.  I think only ship that can counter Victory is the Blackrock Karkinos Battleship but only if Karkinos teleport behind the Victory and destroy its engines in 1V1.

Okay so ofc lv 50 player that is commanding battleship should able to take out any battleship 1v1 but it should take sometime to kill battleships, they dont even last 30-45 second. Like i said only problem is DPS. Victory have too much DPS. I think none of the battleships should take out a cruiser within 10 seconds at max range.

Junk pirates also have this issue on Bulldog battleships.
Victory can get 2.2K DPS with just x2 Mark IX Autocannons and x2 Klutotekhnes. If i add sunfire pde and heavy autocannons it will be a lot more.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 03:15:38 AM by tokmak333 »
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lethargie

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #481 on: July 03, 2019, 05:59:13 AM »

Hmmm, I dont see anything quite out of the ordinary with what you've done. You are using mod, the availability of weapons boost a lot the possible power of any ship. Everything you've done can be done with a vanilla Paragon, especially if you use mod weapons. The set up you have given it should result in quite short practical range. Youve got like a 180 degree angle in the back who are only protected by 2 aegis flak. Ion weapon would easily leave the ship crippled, in fact thats what generally happen when i fight victories in AI Hand. They aren't very dangerous because if you attack from 2 different direction they are totally toast.

You do mention the klutotekhnes specifically as OP, but I dont remember it being so strong. Isnt it just a slightly more bursty Hephaestus Assault Gun? Same damage per bullet, on short burst with same overall dps? I might be wrong for that thought. 4 large gun converging is pretty strong, but thats pretty common in the modiverse when it comes to "forward only" capitals. Just from the top of my head Paragon got 4 large, blackrock got 3, diable got 4, scyan got 3, shadoyard get 3-4, mayasura get 3, sylphon get 3 etc... Its hard to evaluate properly the strength of a ship when controlled by the player, all of the named faction capital can destroy a chain of Onslaught if manned by a player, all of them can erase cruiser. If anything it might just be the paragon being so strong that kinda skew all mods big ship toward Op.
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tokmak333

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #482 on: July 03, 2019, 09:40:52 AM »

Yeah most modded ships have very good arcs it seems like they all created to fight paragon. However if you take look at any of them, they don't have a weapon similar to Klutotekhnes. Like i said that weapon burns up even strongest armor like its nothing. Victory itself is completely fine ship i agree that once you get behind it, its nothing but piece of debris. Afaik even Paragon can't destroy  lets say Eagle within 10 second.

Just saying Klutotekhnes have too much fire power for 900 range/explosive weapon, maybe it doesnt for most people but im just saying that i think none of the battleships should take out cruisers in 10 second especially High Tier(not tech) cruisers at Max Range.

If i compare TPC with Klutotekhnes, TPC will be like baby weapon because Unlike TPC you get 15 ammo every 5 second on both Klutotekhnes. Is there any modded built-in forward weapon similar to Klutotekhnes?
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lethargie

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #483 on: July 03, 2019, 12:53:55 PM »

Just out of curiousity, could you post the specific stats of the klutotekhnes? I dont have  them close by, it might be OP even thought i dont remember it so.

As for destroying a eagle in 10 sec with paragon, you can definitely do it with weapons from mod. 4 Plasma cannon will do it. I know Dassault miyokan got some ridiculous Energy/fragmentation burst beam that would erase it too. Ultimately, its a bit beside the points.
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tokmak333

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #484 on: July 03, 2019, 01:28:35 PM »

How efficient is 4 plasma cannon though? Victory is super efficient with the loadout i have. A ship that can do everything better than any ship is big problem for balance

https://ibb.co/T1g6hv2
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eidolad

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #485 on: July 03, 2019, 05:41:12 PM »

To me the Victory special salvo is comparable to the Onslaught's...both are dangerous but I think the Victory is the substantially better ship of the two for my personal piloting.

It is the combination of that "Maximum Drive" dash forward and the Klutos...makes the ship a top tier cruiser killer.  I even wrote a poem about the ship :).  It's basically the perfect linebacker for an end-game fleet.

However even if we removed the Klutos and let the player replace them with comparably pointed weapons we'd have the same effect.

Like putting pairs of HVD/Heavy Maulers on a Diable Avionics cruisers that can "flicker drive" towards their enemies and pour fire.  Just completely OUCH.
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lethargie

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #486 on: July 03, 2019, 08:47:13 PM »

Might be a problem with the victory, but the kluthotekhness aren't anything special. Its sustained damage capacity are less than the Hephaestus, a really common large ballistic. Its got a nice burst, but its got poor penetration , bad accuracy and mediocre sustained damage

Plasma cannon are actually quite efficient in the current version. And while I might agree that the victory is a bit overtuned I would never agree to say that it can do everything better. Its slow as molass for turning,  has a very narrow full damage angle, and has very very poor back and side defenses. It perform really poorly if your are in inferior number. Because of its shape (large weapon are far on the back) it does not have super great range either.

You might have gotten used to your officer/personal skills too. Your setup on a officer less victory is not exactly impressive in the simulator even if it works.

Edit: Rereading, i realize I might come out a little hard as defending a mod I don't even maintain. I think the mod creator will enjoy your feedback. But I have played  with SWP for at least 2 years, and the victory has remained pretty much unchanged for as long. It had a very long period to get balanced and I enjoy it very much right now.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 04:51:15 AM by lethargie »
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joppe_k

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #487 on: July 04, 2019, 04:50:42 AM »

I mean, the Victory is strong if played to its strength, but what ship isn't? It shines in a 1v1 or with its flanks protected by a fleet, so that it is free to burn in and crush whatever is in front of it. It's like a battering ram in a siege. Its drawback is that it's easy to flank. All in all, I think it's a well balanced battleship.
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tokmak333

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #488 on: July 04, 2019, 11:36:09 AM »

Victory is fine ship but i still think Klutotekhnes is little too strong. 900 range, very fast fire rate, adds 15 ammo every 5 second, explosive ammo. Seems too much.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #489 on: July 04, 2019, 12:30:31 PM »

In a 1v1 straight up manfight, the Victory is nearly unbeatable. It has incredible forward firepower; 2 larges, 6 mediums, and 2 built-in heavy burst DPS weapons. That's its job, that's its name; it is victorious. The Victory falters when it can't do that. Unlike the Onslaught, the Victory's anti-flanking weaponry is also its forward weaponry; the Victory has to split its firepower to deal with the flanker, where the Onslaught has dedicated side weaponry independent of its forward battery. The Victory has a terrible shield arc, only capable of defending against threats directly in front of it; the Onslaught's shield is 180 degrees and can at least catch incoming threats from slightly to the left or right.

The Onslaught is built to take on unfair fights and win. The Victory falters in an unfair fight. The Victory is severely vulnerable to EMP or HE flankers, bomber strikes from the side, and 2v1s in general. And the Victory's high DP cost (55!) means that you will be outnumbered. As a player, you can reliably avoid putting yourself in situations where the Victory's weaknesses are crippling, build the rest of your fleet around the Victory's weaknesses and strengths, and engage in a series of 1v1s with lesser ships that the Victory can chew up and spit out. This is a very powerful strategy, but ultimately so are many other endgame fleet-level strategies.
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Vayra

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.2
« Reply #490 on: July 04, 2019, 12:37:22 PM »

the most recent AI Fleet Building Tournament showcased the Victory quite well, I thought. Both its weaknesses (folding very quickly early on, when it was deployed without enough backup) and its strengths (doing a ton of work against enemy fleets later on, once its attendant fleet had been bulked up substantially enough to cover it properly)

in summary, ship is fine
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
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Dark.Revenant

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[0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.3
« Reply #491 on: July 12, 2019, 01:59:39 PM »

Maintenance update!

Download Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.3
Download Mirror
(Requires LazyLib 2.4e)
(Requires GraphicsLib 1.4.0)

- Supported by DynaSector 1.4.6 (Not yet compatible) -
- Supported by Nexerelin 0.9.2c (Updated!) -

Git Repository

Edit SWP_OPTIONS.ini to enable or disable Ship/Weapon Pack features!



We recommend Version Checker to notify you when an update is ready.

Having problems?  Visit the Mod Troubleshooting Guide!



Change Log
Version 1.10.3
- Fixed Extreme Modifications UI issue
- Fixed bizarre Arcade crash.  WTF Alex?
- Updated Yamato IBB
- Maybe fixed possible edge case that might have resulted in an IBB not being recoverable?
- Added Imperium-flavored Excelsior for a new IBB bounty, ft. HELMUT
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Asauski

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.3
« Reply #492 on: July 14, 2019, 03:12:42 PM »

Phase boss ships fires continuous lasers even in phase

Spoiler

[close]
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.3
« Reply #493 on: July 14, 2019, 07:06:18 PM »

That is correct, the IBB phase ships are intended to be able to fire continuous beams while in phase, as long as they started firing the beam while out of phase. The IBB Shade can also activate its EMP system, then activate phase and have the EMP system continue to work.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 07:09:14 PM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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Murtagh21

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Re: [0.9.1a] Ship/Weapon Pack 1.10.3
« Reply #494 on: July 21, 2019, 11:11:17 AM »

I updated to the latest version midgame and noticed all my IBB have stop spawning. Will it just take some time and they will come back or did I bork it?
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