Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Max aptitude/skill-level change  (Read 4221 times)

Camael

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Max aptitude/skill-level change
« on: February 04, 2016, 02:01:16 AM »

Greetings,

for reasons of balancing and expanding possibly mod-wise (yeah, someone wants to do sprites for me? I suck at this...) I would like to know if there is a way to modify the maximum skill/aptitude-level. Interface and accessible files concerning skills suggest the system is capable of going beyond level 10, I would just like to know if there is a way to remove the cap without having to rewrite the entire game... like... mod-wise.

(I am aware that the interface might screw up with aptitudes beyond 10 due to the cute little bars lighting up... will try to find a workaround later...)

(For reasoning behind this - skill caps annoy me. It puts a lid on specialization and maximum character growth. The way skills are balanced against xp gain in starsector I don't think it will screw up balancing too much to be able to level a skill to 15 and leave another, useless one, behind entirely. Especially as right now, most skills are only chosen for their perks... furthermore officers could become more specialized that way, which, quite simply, I find awesome... missilesupport here we goooohooo...)
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile
Re: Max aptitude/skill-level change
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 03:15:41 AM »

Skills already badly screw up the balance. A max level ship is at the very least twice as powerful as a level 0 one, and that scale up exponentially the higher the base stats are. Alex also planned to completely revamp the skills system soontm (that is, in SS dev time, probably in the next two years ><)

Anyway for your question I'm confident it is possible for the game to support beyond 10 skills as SS+ do that for some AI fleets. But I don't know if that's possible for the player or the interface. You'll have to dig through the files...
Logged
 

TJJ

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1905
    • View Profile
Re: Max aptitude/skill-level change
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 03:46:10 AM »

I've always been partial to complex skill trees; Civ4 tech tree-like* in complexity with multiple paths, dependencies, and synergy bonuses.

I don't have anything to say beyond that, just throwing it out there :)

*other skill/tech trees I liked; Sword of the Stars, Skyrim, oh and the grand-daddy of skill trees - Path of Exile!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 04:43:33 AM by TJJ »
Logged

Camael

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Max aptitude/skill-level change
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 04:31:23 AM »

I think skill and tech trees are slightly different in effect, mechanics-wise in strategy-games tech is the second factor next to economy and that's it. In RPG-like mechanics, like starsector, opportunity, economics, fighting skill-and style and other things contribute, making skills a much smaller factor. I don't think the skill tree lacks in complexity, as it already modifies almost everything in the game that can be scaled, the thing is, with hard caps, the game is limited. Economic growth is limited by the fact that at some point it makes no sense to grow as Your enemies don't "grow" beyond a certain point and a bigger fleet is impossible to support without a proper use for your fifth paragon. But skill growth still gives a feeling of progression. It's a singleplayer sandbox game. Why limit it? Balancing for the sake of a challenging and interesting progression is important, but eventually You will come out on top. Once there is economy and playerfaction war/development going on, the game can go to a next level at that point, not taking on "that hegemony fleet" but "the hegemony", but that is not here, and neither is a new skill system. Till then I'd like to create an option, for myself and possibly others, to go above and beyond. Imbalanced powergaming is not boring if You earned it somehow. Increasing the XP needed per level would make a single playthrough (if You can fit it between version updates...) quite epic... if You were not stuck on lvl10 in every skill.

Also, the balance is somewhat tilted here. You grow in skill, but so do enemy officers. Having a ship twice as powerful with a maxlvl officer or player does not do You much good if the enemy has the same advantage in quality - also, it can always be balanced out by quantity. Just go get another ship then. It's a matter of playstyle and feeling - a maxcap just tells me at the start of the playthrough - this will hit a dead end, everything You collect will be worthless - and it makes me sad. Especially in a sandbox open world, as mentioned. There is no need to make skills more powerful, just let them grow without limit to stop this nagging feeling of futility. As power per XP does not change, the progression through most of the game would remain unchanged, and with aptitudes as limiters, min-maxing could not go overboard either. The eventual effect would be some lategame advantage easily balanced out by economic means (the bonus through skills is static, so +2% when You already have +20% is not going to impact that hard... especially as this one skillpoint is much harder to earn than the first few...) but it would feel better to know that You stop when You feel finished with this incarnation of the corvus sector, not when the game mechanics say "no more growth now, stop".

Also... I already did my file-digging and did not find anything. That's the issue, I'd like some pointers where to look, or if looking makes sense at all.
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile
Re: Max aptitude/skill-level change
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 06:29:17 AM »

You missed my point about balance: it's not an issue with uneven playing field caused by skills, it's the case btw since the player fleet recieve much larger bonuses from the player's skill than AI fleets from the officers alone.

   My issue is that some ships and weapons benefit from skill much more than other due to the skills design. For example the Hellbore is cheap, very powerful, efficient and reasonably ranged. It's main drawbacks are the projectile speed and the somewhat slow fire-rate making difficult to land hits. On the other hand you have the Hephaestus: cheap, reasonably damaging, efficient and easy to hit with due to the high fire-rate. It's main drawback is the relatively weak armor penetration.
   Now add max skills on them: The Hephaestus is slightly easier to aim and a bit more damaging to the armor due to the damage bonus and projectile speed. The Hellbore on the other hand has become a monstruosity almost as easy to fire than the unlevelled Hephaestus but able to nearly one-shot frigates and just kill everything in sight.
   In ships you can compare any hull with a 360 shield that will suddently dissipate hard flux and no longer need to ever drop it's protection, to every other that can't have a perfect shield and will still be vulnerable.

The skills completely upset the internal balance of power of the game, and a lot of the complains to vanilla or mod weapons/ships being "OP" comes from the skills that brutally change their behavior. You want to even further accentuate that and I'm not fond of the idea...

Anyway, you are looking for the levelup plugin something java file (I don't have the game here), and all the other files related to it I believe. Note that you'll certainly need an IDE and maybe rewrite those files.
Logged