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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 355149 times)

ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #135 on: February 23, 2016, 04:20:31 AM »

Hephaestus is not terrible per se.  It is the Heavy Needler of heavy HE.  It is a faster, more efficient version of Hellbore, which means... you usually take Hellbore much like you usually take Heavy Autocannon over Heavy Needler, unless you need the turn speed badly or accuracy badly.

Hephaestus is poor man's Mjolnir, and can sub in a pinch, but that means no Heavy Mauler in the medium ballistics slot to complement HAG.
It's not more efficient than the Hellbore, though. Because of the way armor mechanics work, burst is king, and the Hellbore has enough burst to blast through any armor in the game in one to two shots. The HAG takes much longer to bust through cruiser-to-capital grade armor or even the kind of armor the Enforcer can get, which is what you're going to be using it against since it's a large ballistic weapon. Sure, it's slightly more flux-efficient on paper, but it's nowhere near as time-efficient, which means you're going to be spending more total flux in practice. On top of that, it costs 4 more OP than the Hellbore, so with the Hellbore you can get 40 more flux dissipation worth of vents to almost totally make up for the decreased flux efficiency.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 05:10:12 AM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #136 on: February 23, 2016, 05:37:09 AM »

On top of that, it costs 4 more OP than the Hellbore, so with the Hellbore you can get 40 more flux dissipation worth of vents to almost totally make up for the decreased flux efficiency.
Not really, I have max vents either way, which means I do not have 40 more dissipation per gun.

Armor is not the only thing I need to hit with guns.  I need to hit hull too.

The most dangerous enemy to a souped-up Dominator or Onslaught is not another capital, but a swarm of high-tech frigates.  Eight or more Wolves, Tempests, and phase ships will wreck your low-tech ship if not dealt with.  Hellbore is probably better against phase ships.  Against other frigates, HAG is easier to use.

That said, I think Hellbore is the better gun overall, especially if OP is scarce.  HAG costs enough OP that if I have Mjolnir available, I use the latter instead.  Basically, Hellbore if going cheap, Mjolnir otherwise.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #137 on: February 23, 2016, 06:04:40 AM »

Nice changes all around, I'm looking forward to a much smoother campaign experience.

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Added "cargo scan" patrols may perform when the player's transponder is on
Chance to happen if player has been doing smuggling at patrol's source market

Don't forget to make that relation transparent, maybe just by having the patrol captain state the reason for his suspicions :)


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Rewrote game launcher in OpenGL (was in Swing)
Any chance you can add a direct link to the mod folder in the launcher? That's about the only feature I've been missing.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2016, 06:07:33 AM »

  • Added "cargo scan" patrols may perform when the player's transponder is on
    • Chance to happen if player has been doing smuggling at patrol's source market
Is this permanent, or does this go away after the player stops smuggling at that market for a while?
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Schwartz

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #139 on: February 23, 2016, 06:08:57 AM »

Well, this is interesting.. I did some Tac Laser test runs with Astral and Heron. That weird flickering thing doesn't happen much anymore. They seem to favour continuous fire and sweeping hits instead. Some missiles they catch, some they ignore. Some, they will trail behind without making contact. I assume this happens when they don't have anything 'better to do' and hope to catch up. Fast movers like Salamanders will be chased unsuccessfully if they're circling. So yeah, Tac Lasers have been improved and can be used with IPDAI if the ship is kitted for turret turn speed. Still, PD Lasers are more precise; they catch more stuff and never trail behind anything, even with Optics.

Tac Lasers don't seem awkward in a PD role anymore. When they're out of their league, it is because of turret turn speed, but the glitches are gone. I'd probably let them handle PD now, if I had the spare OP. I tried this against a simulator army, so against officers some more precise or more burst-y solution may be required.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #140 on: February 23, 2016, 06:17:40 AM »

Not really, I have max vents either way, which means I do not have 40 more dissipation per gun.

Armor is not the only thing I need to hit with guns.  I need to hit hull too.

The most dangerous enemy to a souped-up Dominator or Onslaught is not another capital, but a swarm of high-tech frigates.  Eight or more Wolves, Tempests, and phase ships will wreck your low-tech ship if not dealt with.  Hellbore is probably better against phase ships.  Against other frigates, HAG is easier to use.

That said, I think Hellbore is the better gun overall, especially if OP is scarce. HAG costs enough OP that if I have Mjolnir available, I use the latter instead.  Basically, Hellbore if going cheap, Mjolnir otherwise.

So you've got 800 more flux capacity per gun. Or you can drop 1 vent and swap out a Heavy Autocannon for a Heavy Needler, which will drop your weapon flux/second by a total of 30. There's a bunch of things you can do with 4 extra OP.

The Hellbore has 20 more DPS than the HAG. It's very, very, very slightly more effective vs hull than the HAG. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.

Why are you deploying a Dominator or Onslaught vs swarms of high tech frigates? That's not what those ships are for. Bring along some Enforcers or Medusas or something and deploy those instead, they're much better at killing frigates. Why are you trying to hit high-tech frigates with a large ballistic weapon? You've got a bunch of small and medium ballistic slots to put kinetics and maybe some Maulers in, they're much better at killing frigates. Why are you trying to kill high-tech frigates with a High Explosive weapon? They have terrible armor and great shields, HE is overkill vs their armor and bad vs shields.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #141 on: February 23, 2016, 07:31:34 AM »

So you've got 800 more flux capacity per gun. Or you can drop 1 vent and swap out a Heavy Autocannon for a Heavy Needler, which will drop your weapon flux/second by a total of 30. There's a bunch of things you can do with 4 extra OP.

The Hellbore has 20 more DPS than the HAG. It's very, very, very slightly more effective vs hull than the HAG. I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.

Why are you deploying a Dominator or Onslaught vs swarms of high tech frigates? That's not what those ships are for. Bring along some Enforcers or Medusas or something and deploy those instead, they're much better at killing frigates. Why are you trying to hit high-tech frigates with a large ballistic weapon? You've got a bunch of small and medium ballistic slots to put kinetics and maybe some Maulers in, they're much better at killing frigates. Why are you trying to kill high-tech frigates with a High Explosive weapon? They have terrible armor and great shields, HE is overkill vs their armor and bad vs shields.
More capacity or convenience hullmods are luxuries, just like getting HAG over Hellbore.  I do not want too much capacity because that just makes venting take too long if flux is high.  Hellbore is more vent-spam friendly, but HAG is good if you are forced to fire continuously or want to swat down small, fast, and nimble targets.

Because 20 more DPS means nothing if I cannot hit the target.  It is easier to hit enemies with HAG - faster shots, faster fire rate.  HAG may be a good idea if my only kinetic is HVDs.  (If I want to substitute Mjolnir+Heavy Mauler but keep 900+ range, HAG+HVD is the closest substitute.  Hellbore+HVD is agonizingly slow.)

I solo fleets with one ship - that one ship needs to be able to handle everything.  I solo fleets because it minimizes costs and maximizes profit.  Soloing fleets means I can chain-battle longer.  If I fight a simulator-sized fleet (extended battle against six or so fleets), only a battleship has the stamina to solo it.  When I fight, I either deploy one or all.  As for Onslaught, it can outperform Paragon, given the proper skills and configuration.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #142 on: February 23, 2016, 09:51:17 AM »

are you still working on some big change or new feature (as in, potentially blog post worthy) for the next release, or 'just' various improvements here and there?

Playtesting!

Don't forget to make that relation transparent, maybe just by having the patrol captain state the reason for his suspicions :)

Yep, they mention that right off the bat. "Your fleet matches the profile of a suspected smuggler provided by <market> authorities", that sort of thing.

Any chance you can add a direct link to the mod folder in the launcher? That's about the only feature I've been missing.

Oh, that's a good one; I'll note it down. One potential problem here is that the default Java way of doing this involves using AWT, which would obviate some of the reason to switching to OpenGL in the first place - i.e. it'd likely stop working on some OS X and Linux installs. (The deal is, I'm *fairly* sure, that anything using AWT will only work with Java 8 on the latest OS X release. Which is a problem because Java 8 is a problem.)

There are probably workarounds, but I'd imagine they're platform-specific and so rather fiddly.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #143 on: February 23, 2016, 10:12:05 AM »

Ok, looks like a lot of good changes to rep and attention to 'pirate' players. thanks! Couple Qs:

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Removed reputation penalty for escaping w/o dealing major damage

What about when you escape from combat before it even starts, with the dialog box option 'disengage' or flee or whatever it is? e.g. when a pirate fleet catches up to you. That currently gives you a -2 hit. Complaining about that has been my drum to bang for the last 6 months, so much thanks if you changed or will change that. :)

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Player fleet able to interact with objects immediately after battle, i.e. now possible to escape through a jump-point after retreating from battle w/o always being re-engaged by enemy fleet

This sounds interesting, from the brief description I'm not sure quite what it means overall though. Can't we already interact with objects after battle? But fleets don't chase the player with as much tenacity now?

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Reputation loss if patrol judges cargo to be likely destined for black market, even if it's otherwise legal

This could be one of those thing where some unexpected behavior leads to players getting constantly profiled by the cops for being 'suspicious looking' and human rights lawyers will have to become involved. Maybe punishing players for possible, future crimes is a bit harsh and a little too realistic? I.e. if a player decides to 'go straight' and start legitimate trading then they still keep getting punished for their past misdeeds.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #144 on: February 23, 2016, 10:27:32 AM »

Is this permanent, or does this go away after the player stops smuggling at that market for a while?

It goes down very gradually. IIRC the trade volume that's "remembered" about goes down by 10% each month or so, and the smuggling scan won't kick off until the suspicion is above a small threshold, so even though multiplying by 0.9 each month won't ever take it to 0, it'll still effectively go away. After a while.


What about when you escape from combat before it even starts, with the dialog box option 'disengage' or flee or whatever it is? e.g. when a pirate fleet catches up to you. That currently gives you a -2 hit. Complaining about that has been my drum to bang for the last 6 months, so much thanks if you changed or will change that. :)

Right, same deal, no penalty.

This sounds interesting, from the brief description I'm not sure quite what it means overall though. Can't we already interact with objects after battle? But fleets don't chase the player with as much tenacity now?

It's when you're on top of a jump-point, and there's an enemy fleet on top of you. Currently it's very likely the interaction with the enemy fleet would take precedence, preventing you from jumping out even after a successful retreat.

This could be one of those thing where some unexpected behavior leads to players getting constantly profiled by the cops for being 'suspicious looking' and human rights lawyers will have to become involved. Maybe punishing players for possible, future crimes is a bit harsh and a little too realistic? I.e. if a player decides to 'go straight' and start legitimate trading then they still keep getting punished for their past misdeeds.

The point here is to add a risk to selling perfectly legal goods, but on the black market. It's not going to affect a player that doesn't use the black market, and the chance of getting nailed for this depends heavily on the existing suspicion level. Finally, the only punishment is a reputation hit, not confiscation.

Frankly, I'm not sure it's quite severe enough :) Ultimately, it's supposed to be a check on "I'm going to smuggle with my transponder on and no one will stop me".
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #145 on: February 23, 2016, 10:41:15 AM »

What do all these smuggling changes mean to someone who only uses the black market to buy a single rare ship or weapon? Like, probably going months before buying another item from the same black market.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #146 on: February 23, 2016, 10:51:35 AM »

What do all these smuggling changes mean to someone who only uses the black market to buy a single rare ship or weapon? Like, probably going months before buying another item from the same black market.

Probably nothing much. Might result in an odd cargo scan once in a while, but nothing major, and the rep penalty (which is unlikely even in the event of a scan, if you haven't been doing heavy smuggling) won't mean much taken by itself.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #147 on: February 23, 2016, 11:01:57 AM »

There are probably workarounds, but I'd imagine they're platform-specific and so rather fiddly.

You could just disable it on non-windows machines (and allow re-enabling via settings.json) ;D


What would also be great would a automatic "new version" check/alarm in the launcher. I think especially the hotfix releases are missed by a whole lot of people.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 11:04:51 AM by Gothars »
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #148 on: February 23, 2016, 11:26:38 AM »

You could just disable it on non-windows machines (and allow re-enabling via settings.json) ;D

Hah!

What would also be great would a automatic "new version" check/alarm in the launcher. I think especially the hotfix releases are missed by a whole lot of people.

Hmm, yeah. Another good one :) Something for mod dependency-checking would be good, too. The good news is with the launcher being in OpenGL, these things are much more doable now... finding time to do all of them is the main obstacle. Well, one step at a time.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #149 on: February 23, 2016, 12:35:53 PM »

  • Independent faction no longer offers commissions or engages in faction hostilities
    • Military market access doesn't require commission, just reputation
Does this all military markets no longer require commission or just Independents?

No commission required means I can be friends with (almost) everyone and buy the best stuff, unlike today where reputation for factions are other than yours is mostly useless.
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