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Author Topic: "Upgrading" of Ships  (Read 10846 times)

Dreyven

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"Upgrading" of Ships
« on: February 21, 2012, 06:02:07 PM »

Every ship in Starfarer is unique, every ship seems to fit in a role, has it's own weaknesses and strenghts.
But sometimes, you have this ship XY that would be really great... if you just could add all the Hull mods/weapons
to it and maybe tweak something a bit, but in reallity they are kinda bad...
And all ships are certainly great, but when faced with a Tempest or even a Hyperion they just are "outdated" as the game
would say it. (comparison of frigates)


Seeing the Buffalo MK.II Destroyer brought up this idea
MK.II... Mark II... improved version
that should be the case with more ships

I think there should be different versions of every ship, simply more recent models
not upgradable per say... because there is no upgrade button
but the station could sell different versions of the same ship (for increasing prices ofcourse)
there could be an MK.I, which is the normal version that we have right now
but there could be an MK.0, a prototype version, which is really weak compared to Mark I,
a Mark II, which is slightly better and so on, until at a certain Modell, the ship can actually
compete with all the recent versions
the look of the ship stays the same, it's easier to implement and makes more sense, it stays the same type of ship afterall


But! the models should keep some of the unique weaknesses and strengths a ship has

things it could affect:
- Ordnance points
- Weapon mounts (maybe change ballistics into lazors
- Flux
- speed
- other characteristics
- providing hull mods without costing ordnance points


let's do an example

Hound class frigate, everyone knows it
Cheap, fragile, medium speed ship, no shields
no real strenghts, but cheap
weaknesses: no shields, blind spots on the rear and the right side, is totally boned when engines die


MK.0
Prototype Version
-has a small weapon slot on the front instead of the medium sized one

MK.I
current model

MK.II
Improved engines
+10 Top speed
+10% maneuverability
- grants the hull mod Insulated Engine Assembly for free (because if it blows up you are the easiest target in the game in this ship :P)

MK.III
-improves the generator so it can support more systems (Ordnance points +6)

MK.IV
- improves the turn radius of the second Turret (the small one) so that it can cover the right side aswell
- also grants advanced turret gyros to the back turret (only the back one and it won't stack if you take the hull mod aswell) to deal with the bigger radius to cover

MK.V
-ads a small sized missile mount to the right side of the craft
-also grants +5 Ordnance points to allow you to equip the missile launcher properly

It would still not be a top craft... but it would be a cheap ship which you can equip for every situation
and it could fight against other frigates without beeing outclassed
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 07:49:31 PM »

The gist of this sounds great and I think it would go well with the RPG element they have planned for your character.
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Dreyven

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 04:23:55 AM »

i think it would be fun to see...
also it would increase the dependency on "drops",
as: "i hope the station sells some more modern versions this time"

and every rpg needs drops ^^
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CaptainCato

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 06:26:41 AM »

Well I agree with you on one thing, we should have more versions of 1 ship.
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Sordid

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 07:08:49 AM »

i think it would be fun to see...
also it would increase the dependency on "drops",
as: "i hope the station sells some more modern versions this time"

Yeah, I think making upgrades dependent on actual items would be a very good thing. I find it very weird that my crew can conjure stronger engines out of thin air when needed and then dissolve them into nothingness again when I remove the upgrade.
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Plasmatic

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 07:42:20 AM »

This would be a really nice way to implement an idea that spawned in another thread (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=986.0)

Not exactly the same, but very similar in my mind at least.. just instead of a new ship being made, you get an upgraded version of yours..

Though, this could potentially make some ships way OP :P (looking at you Tempest)
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Dreyven

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 08:30:05 AM »

See.. that's the point, the Tempest would not have another Modell
The tempest already is a modern craft, it's a top piece of technologie
this is basically to have improved modells of outdated ships available that can compete with the more modern ones
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icepick37

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 09:21:13 AM »

Yeah, I think making upgrades dependent on actual items would be a very good thing. I find it very weird that my crew can conjure stronger engines out of thin air when needed and then dissolve them into nothingness again when I remove the upgrade.

Really? I don't find it weird at all. It's just an abstraction of the fact that you are stripping all kinds of random crap from ships and use it to tune yours up.
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Vensalir

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 09:22:50 AM »

I think that's a good idea, but it would definelty have to stay confined to outdated or remodeled vessels.
Why not adding a tree-type progression instead of a linear one ?
OP suggested the Hound Mk II would have enhanced propulsion systems (Which I too find to be the best possible upgrade), but why not a MkIIB with increased armor instead ?
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icepick37

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 09:31:15 AM »

I don't get what this is adding to the game?
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Dreyven

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 09:39:18 AM »

yes, outdated modells only
the more recent the Mk.I is, the less versions will be avaible

so if the hound goes up to MK.V
the lasher could maybe go up to MK.III (?)

but i think a non linear progression system might be too complicated...
it would involve too many different models
the MK.IIB would need to evolve to either the MK.IIIBC or MK.IIIBD
on the fourth tier it would already end up in MK.IVBCF, MK.IVBCE, MK.IVBDE and the MK.IVBDF
because it would need to "remember" which thing was upgraded in the previous version that led to this one

Quote
I don't get what this is adding to the game?
it makes older ships more viable
if you put an AI in the Hound class frigate
it will die in any big battle in 7/10 fights or even more
so there is no real reason to use them, they are too easy to shoot down and aren't a real threat

also it ads some kind of progression to the RPG
you could start out with MK.I modells
and when you travel to more advanced areas
new ships will get available and the other can advance in tiers
so the first system you start in, could only have the Hound available
the second one could introduce a new ship and have the Hound MK.II available to buy
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Sordid

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 10:06:28 AM »

Yeah, I think making upgrades dependent on actual items would be a very good thing. I find it very weird that my crew can conjure stronger engines out of thin air when needed and then dissolve them into nothingness again when I remove the upgrade.

Really? I don't find it weird at all. It's just an abstraction of the fact that you are stripping all kinds of random crap from ships and use it to tune yours up.

Well at the very least making these adjustments should consume Supplies.

Although to be honest I'm not a fan of these generic supplies. They're basically Schroedinger's Supply Boxes, they could potentially contain any of the components needed to repair a ship, but which one is inside is determined only when you open the box. I'd much rather see specific components. Got a busted engine and no spare engine parts? Tough, you'll have to leave that ship behind. That sort of thing.
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icepick37

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 10:20:32 AM »

Although to be honest I'm not a fan of these generic supplies. They're basically Schroedinger's Supply Boxes, they could potentially contain any of the components needed to repair a ship, but which one is inside is determined only when you open the box. I'd much rather see specific components. Got a busted engine and no spare engine parts? Tough, you'll have to leave that ship behind. That sort of thing.

Bleh. You'd actually like that? I don't want this to turn into a game of inventory management. I like the levels of abstraction thrown down. (shrug) Guess we'll just have to see how it plays out though.

it makes older ships more viable
if you put an AI in the Hound class frigate
it will die in any big battle in 7/10 fights or even more
so there is no real reason to use them, they are too easy to shoot down and aren't a real threat
How much have you tried?

Also, must every ship be shoehorned into the same type of useful? I actually enjoy the variety of uses of each ship. Hound has a very niche role, but it plays it well.
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Dreyven

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 10:33:51 AM »

Quote
How much have you tried?
I? Plenty... and i can kill alot of stuff with the Hound, or any ship
but the AI?
can't really compete with anything in a Hound

Quote
Also, must every ship be shoehorned into the same type of useful? I actually enjoy the variety of uses of each ship. Hound has a very niche role, but it plays it well.
No, i like it that some are better suited for certain tasks
but the role of the Hound for example is too niche
and i can't come up with one that's unique where i would prefer it over another
there's always another ship which can be equiped to fit this role better if you force it
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icepick37

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Re: "Upgrading" of Ships
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2012, 10:45:34 AM »

but the AI?
can't really compete with anything in a Hound
True...

Quote
there's always another ship which can be equiped to fit this role better if you force it
Wouldn't it be better just to have more variety in ships then?

EDIT: Just to be clear I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to understand better.
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