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News: Starsector 0.9a is out! (11/16/18)
 
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Author Topic: [0.7.2a] Hiigaran Descendants & Bushi & Kadur Theocracy - Revived  (Read 96082 times)
Midnight Kitsune
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« Reply #210 on: May 24, 2017, 12:34:51 PM »

Midnight likes to throw rocks and dance off, but his point is broadly correct; these mods aren't especially well balanced or implemented.

Short of a genuine revival with much more attention paid to unglamorous factors like deployment costs (let alone the massive, known, ignored balance issues and game-crashing bugs), these mods don't add very much into the game besides nostalgia. They aren't rebalanced around the current state of the game, and likely will not be. Their art isn't the most friendly with vanilla (look who's talking, right?), and even a straight compatibility update becomes more and more work for less and less return as the game diverges from the point where they were current.
Awwwww, Soren! I didn't know you cared so much!

And Soren is right: This mod doesn't need to be updated, it needs to be gutted, rebuilt and rebalanced from the ground up by a modder that knows what they are doing (this includes not using java 8 ), responds and FIXES their bugs and balance issues in a timely matter and finally, that they actually CARE about the mod. This issue though is that the chances of a new modder entering the scene with that level of experience would most likely want to work on their own either starting out or soon after.
And sometimes nostalgia is better to be remembered than to be re-experienced. So let's do as Soren said and
Let sleeping mods lie.
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Stop trying to balance the game around a few minmaxers...
Programming is like sex:
One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life.

Tired of having your game crash because of out of date mods? Then click here!
Get Version Checker today! Now with 90% less hassle! Simply toss it into your mod folder, activate the mod like a normal one and BINGO you will now be informed of any and all updates when you start SS campaign up!
Soren
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« Reply #211 on: May 24, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »

Let's be totally fair: throwing rocks is awesome sometimes. 'Twas not a dig at you.

This might actually be a good place to talk about what rebuilding a mod this old for 0.8 actually entails, though, and what, specifically (besides bugs) is worth changing in a .62a mod to make it viable in 0.8 and soon 0.8.1.

For starters, I'd say that for the actual gameplay variety, this mod has too many weapons. HE and KE versions of the same gun with an orange stripe? Why not have one version of each, all built-ins, with high per-shot frag damage. That feels Homeworldy - rather than 'Homeworld skin for Starsector'. And missiles; I think it's clear that Homeworld-style missiles and Starsector-style missiles are fairly different. Why not take a page from the experiment with regenerating missiles? Lower damage, long recycle times, clip-based reloading.

You could say the same for ships; more effort put into fewer hulls will yield a much more compelling, satisfying mod.

Sprites; the art is kind of a mishmash of 3D renders and 2D work that could stand another pass. Probably the worst single issue is the sheer variety of texture and color variations between weapons and hulls; some of them seem to have been rendered with different hue and saturation settings and totally different textures. At minimum, that needs to be unified. It would also be nice to move things closer to David's current, more painterly Starsector art; I bet you could even find a nice shader for that.

Campaign layer: now that Remnants and Domain autodefenses are in the game, it calls into question whether a given faction concept is suited to be a full player faction or an AI-only faction that exists to challenge the player. There's room for challenge factions and powerful enemies out there, and it might be worth remaking the mod as one of those.

(The orbital shipyard thing the original mod does is clever, I like that. That's worth reviving.)

Looking at the above, it's pretty clear to me that the workload looks more like a new faction with almost totally new mechanics than a simple polish pass. That, at least, would involve a lot less sifting through files and approving your keeps and discards with the original modder.
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Midnight Kitsune
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« Reply #212 on: May 24, 2017, 03:49:18 PM »

Let's not forget all the things to just to get it to WORK in .8.1. From what I understand, that alone is quite the effort
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Stop trying to balance the game around a few minmaxers...
Programming is like sex:
One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life.

Tired of having your game crash because of out of date mods? Then click here!
Get Version Checker today! Now with 90% less hassle! Simply toss it into your mod folder, activate the mod like a normal one and BINGO you will now be informed of any and all updates when you start SS campaign up!
Soren
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« Reply #213 on: May 24, 2017, 04:22:04 PM »

It's a long weekend's worth of work, having done it once already. The question is - would it be worth it?
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PREDGEHAMMER
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« Reply #214 on: August 06, 2017, 06:17:58 AM »

It's a long weekend's worth of work, having done it once already. The question is - would it be worth it?

I would say YES as I am a huge Homeworld fan and to being able to pilot the Higarrian battle cruiser killing everything would... just... be...epic!
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« Reply #215 on: August 06, 2017, 07:29:39 AM »

would say yes too
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« Reply #216 on: August 06, 2017, 02:58:50 PM »

It's too bad DefiasOne never got anywhere.

Quite some work indeed. I'm probably going to recreate everything from scratch when the full release of the game is here.
As long as the game is being developed I don't have the motivation for it; I lack interest in the game at the moment (I'll be psyched when Alex is done though) and any update would probably break stuff again.

@Soren: If you have any tips for shading them, then I'd be very interested. I own Photoshop, in case you know of some nice filter to download somewhere.
I've touched up the ships in the past, they looked even more out of place before that, but yeah, they're far from looking vanilla.

@Everyone: Feel free to recreate the mod from scratch if you feel like it. I don't mind. I might make my own version when the game's done, but if someone beats me to it then I simply won't. Smiley
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« Reply #217 on: August 10, 2017, 08:02:50 PM »

It's too bad DefiasOne never got anywhere.

Quite some work indeed. I'm probably going to recreate everything from scratch when the full release of the game is here.
As long as the game is being developed I don't have the motivation for it; I lack interest in the game at the moment (I'll be psyched when Alex is done though) and any update would probably break stuff again.

@Soren: If you have any tips for shading them, then I'd be very interested. I own Photoshop, in case you know of some nice filter to download somewhere.
I've touched up the ships in the past, they looked even more out of place before that, but yeah, they're far from looking vanilla.

@Everyone: Feel free to recreate the mod from scratch if you feel like it. I don't mind. I might make my own version when the game's done, but if someone beats me to it then I simply won't. Smiley
Awww. And I thought you crawled back out from the grave of (possibly) dead modders. I'd revive Kadur at the very least, but my current tools and skills would not do the mod justice. I hope you come back fully some day.
P.S.: If you do redo the mod, keep the Sling ABMs. They were quite fun.
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Eagles and Falcons on fire off the L5 of Sindria. I watched Tachyon beams glitter in the dark near the Perseus Nebula...
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« Reply #218 on: August 11, 2017, 02:23:44 AM »

Awww. And I thought you crawled back out from the grave of (possibly) dead modders. I'd revive Kadur at the very least, but my current tools and skills would not do the mod justice. I hope you come back fully some day.
P.S.: If you do redo the mod, keep the Sling ABMs. They were quite fun.
Euh... Kadur isn't my mod though. Tongue
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cjusa
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« Reply #219 on: August 11, 2017, 07:40:05 AM »

Awww. And I thought you crawled back out from the grave of (possibly) dead modders. I'd revive Kadur at the very least, but my current tools and skills would not do the mod justice. I hope you come back fully some day.
P.S.: If you do redo the mod, keep the Sling ABMs. They were quite fun.
Euh... Kadur isn't my mod though. Tongue

Derp.
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Very few problems can't be solved with gratuitous violence and epic explosions.

I am pro at Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth-Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip-Poker. Fight me.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Eagles and Falcons on fire off the L5 of Sindria. I watched Tachyon beams glitter in the dark near the Perseus Nebula...
Ratheden
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« Reply #220 on: August 30, 2017, 04:50:00 PM »

Just know that fans of this mod are hope'n you will update it to 8.1+

Love this mod!
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lechibang
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« Reply #221 on: September 02, 2017, 10:46:37 AM »

Modders should have their own patreon page for something like this - to give them some sort of motivation
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Do it yourself, as people always say.
Midnight Kitsune
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« Reply #222 on: September 02, 2017, 01:46:30 PM »

Modders should have their own patreon page for something like this - to give them some sort of motivation
Some DO have donation links on their pages
Logged

Stop trying to balance the game around a few minmaxers...
Programming is like sex:
One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life.

Tired of having your game crash because of out of date mods? Then click here!
Get Version Checker today! Now with 90% less hassle! Simply toss it into your mod folder, activate the mod like a normal one and BINGO you will now be informed of any and all updates when you start SS campaign up!
Rathorn
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« Reply #223 on: March 04, 2018, 11:27:48 AM »

So I know this is an old thread, but I'm still running starsector 7.2 and trying out different mods. I read through and noticed at least one other person encountering the Fatal: JSONObject[ "logo" ] not found crash when trying to load the game with Bushi enabled. Is there a fix for this?

On a related note, I've found that manually balancing things for myself is easy, just time consuming, I.E. editing burn speeds, ship costs and weapon stats for the Hiigaran Descendants mod.
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omatkoicorko
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« Reply #224 on: August 21, 2018, 03:53:30 AM »

some is going to refresh this mod? it is great and i love it, and as Star Sector is now 0.9, it would be great if some one starts to mod it again Smiley
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