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Author Topic: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?  (Read 14724 times)

SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2015, 10:07:31 AM »

Okay, now I have one HVD at the nose, and two dual flaks on the arms, which leaves a total of four dual flaks.
If you do this, I recommend putting vulcans in the front two small slots - there's a bit of a gap where the side flaks will occasionally let things through.  The vulcans won't stop torpedos, but they can shoot down most other stuff.
Nah, too gimmicky right now. My only worry are Reapers. And Daggers. Duals do it just fine.

Flux managing needlers is a bit too painful. Also, I have zero Flux Dynamics   :-[
Huh?  Needlers have a lower flux cost than railguns (and heavy needlers are far more flux efficient than HVDs, too)!  Unless I'm really missing something, they ought to be easier to flux manage, not harder.
Remember, everything fires at once. And I don't currently have the venting capability to keep it up. I'll experiment with autocannons and assault guns, see what happens.
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Aeson

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2015, 10:22:49 AM »

Flux managing needlers is a bit too painful. Also, I have zero Flux Dynamics   :-[
Huh?  Needlers have a lower flux cost than railguns (and heavy needlers are far more flux efficient than HVDs, too)!  Unless I'm really missing something, they ought to be easier to flux manage, not harder.
Light Needlers have lower time-average flux costs than Railguns (117 flux per second versus 150 flux per second), but significantly higher burst flux costs (400 versus 90). I wouldn't necessary count out burst flux costs when talking about how easy it is to manage flux levels using any given weapon, especially if you're trying to use your shields at the same time or if you're using other weapons with high burst flux costs.
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SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2015, 11:06:50 AM »

Okay, Railguns are the best choice for fire support weapons. LAGs have worse flux stats, ACs are too weak, dual ACs too inaccurate for my taste, and I'm still not convinced that I need supplemental PD.

Maybe the Sledge Gun from Interstellar Imperium will do the trick?  :D
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harrumph

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2015, 11:25:54 AM »

Also, when I tried Needlers, LAGs, or other assault weapons in the small slots, I had flux cost problems when everything fired at once.  Vulcans serving as an efficient option helped solve my flux (and sometimes OP) problems.

I've found the same to be true. I usually go for a build with a ton of low-flux PD (either two dual flak and four regular flak around the bridge, or just six regular flak —they have longer range and use way less flux than dual flak—and six vulcans or dual MGs forward) and rely on the TPCs, three Mjolnirs, three heavy needlers, and torpedoes for ship-to-ship combat. I usually take Expanded Magazines (which is very cheap, OP-wise) to give the TPCs a little more oomph. Nothing can keep shields up for more than a few seconds against that firepower, so railguns/light needlers/autocannons are mostly just wasted flux.

Like everybody else, I pretty much always take ITU, Automated Repair Unit, and Augmented Engines—I would also highly recommend Resistant Flux Conduits. The accelerated venting alone is worth it, and resistance to EMP weapons is a nice bonus considering how rarely you raise shields.
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Wyvern

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 11:31:18 AM »

Flux managing needlers is a bit too painful. Also, I have zero Flux Dynamics   :-[
Huh?  Needlers have a lower flux cost than railguns (and heavy needlers are far more flux efficient than HVDs, too)!  Unless I'm really missing something, they ought to be easier to flux manage, not harder.
Remember, everything fires at once. And I don't currently have the venting capability to keep it up. I'll experiment with autocannons and assault guns, see what happens.
Why does 'everything fires at once' have anything to do with it?  You've got enough flux reserves for the burst cost Aeson was talking about to average out, and after that the needlers are just plain cheaper to fire.  (Now, if you're not at the cap on flux vents, then it's possible to make an argument in favor of mounting railguns and using the OP saved to mount more flux vents.  But you should be at the cap on flux vents, since that's the main limit on your outgoing firepower, and once you're there, needlers are simply a better source of kinetic damage.)
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Aeson

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2015, 12:41:53 PM »

[Why does 'everything fires at once' have anything to do with it?  You've got enough flux reserves for the burst cost Aeson was talking about to average out
For the Onslaught configuration given, it kind of doesn't have time to average out if everything is firing (25170 flux capacity and 1030 flux dissipation, 2x TPCs, 4x Dual Flak, 3x HVD, 2x Heavy Mauler, 3x Mjolner, 6x Railgun or Light Needler); whether SpacePoliticianAndaZealot uses railguns or light needlers makes less than a seconds' difference in the approximate time it takes the Onslaught to reach max flux if every last weapon on the ship is firing at full rate (~8.3 seconds with railguns versus ~8.9 seconds with light needlers; might be some differences between estimate and reality because I used the quick method of calculating time to max flux rather than running through the firing cycles). Once the Onslaught hits maximum flux, it needs to dissipate 400 flux to fire off a burst from a light needler, or 90 flux to fire a shot from a railgun, and 90 flux for a Railgun shot is a lot easier to squeeze in beside the 400 required for a Mjolner, the 350 required for an HVD, or the 225 required for a Heavy Mauler than an extra 400 for a Light Needler burst.
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Megas

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2015, 12:49:58 PM »

Burst-fire weapons that are flux efficient over time can burn you at a bad time by adding a big chunk of flux at an inopportune time and enable an overload.
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SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2015, 04:07:11 PM »

[Why does 'everything fires at once' have anything to do with it?  You've got enough flux reserves for the burst cost Aeson was talking about to average out
For the Onslaught configuration given, it kind of doesn't have time to average out if everything is firing (25170 flux capacity and 1030 flux dissipation, 2x TPCs, 4x Dual Flak, 3x HVD, 2x Heavy Mauler, 3x Mjolner, 6x Railgun or Light Needler); whether SpacePoliticianAndaZealot uses railguns or light needlers makes less than a seconds' difference in the approximate time it takes the Onslaught to reach max flux if every last weapon on the ship is firing at full rate (~8.3 seconds with railguns versus ~8.9 seconds with light needlers; might be some differences between estimate and reality because I used the quick method of calculating time to max flux rather than running through the firing cycles). Once the Onslaught hits maximum flux, it needs to dissipate 400 flux to fire off a burst from a light needler, or 90 flux to fire a shot from a railgun, and 90 flux for a Railgun shot is a lot easier to squeeze in beside the 400 required for a Mjolner, the 350 required for an HVD, or the 225 required for a Heavy Mauler than an extra 400 for a Light Needler burst.
Yes, correct! Excellent analisys, thanx :)

Man, too bad that Shield Bypass hullmod from SS+ is not part of the vanilla. I've used it quite a lot and it's very effective: in retrospective, something like a diluted SO hullmod.
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Wyvern

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2015, 04:35:59 PM »

Disagree with that analysis.  If you're at max flux, pick a weapon group you don't need, and turn it off.  If the only reason for using railguns over needlers is that they're more likely to get off a shot in at max flux, then I'd suggest that you're better off with no gun installed there at all, and that much more flux available for the rest of your armaments.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 05:13:21 PM »

Really? Really? When I am near max flux, I make sure that I turn everything on!. It is tremendously effective! Blows up ship(s) every time!  ::)

...

Naw, naw, it really seems counterintuitive to me to forgo such sustained fire capability. And removing weapons isn't an option, since offence is it's best defence. Like Megas explained, needlers have a "flux spike" which is a pain to manage in general.
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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2015, 05:51:24 PM »

Weirdly, I find that maximum PD is incredibly rewarding on an Onslaught. Your biggest worry is Reapers, which can make it through, but everything else will be ripped up well before it touches your hull, and you can almost ignore fighters. Lean on your built-in TPCs (Expanded Magazines!) and your main battery for damage.

Not much more to add, really, Mjolnirs are the best choice for your large slots and Harpoons are better general-purpose missiles to fit to capital ships (Reapers are awesome against other Onslaughts - not so much anything else, and a shoal of Vigilances make better torpedo platforms).
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Onyvox

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2015, 09:01:59 AM »

  • 2 Flak + 1 Hephaestus gunz on each side (chugz all fighters and little swarming bastards).
  • Engines are covered with 2 assault chainguns (against all those who wanna steal my warm time).
  • 2 Extended Gale cannons (sorta reworked Maulers, shot slower, damage more).
  • Ironweaver + cobra in the front
    (Ironweaver = sorta kinetic shotgun, that costs much more than your average MJ but eats less flux. I just find it more interesting to use vs heavy and small stuff).
    (Cobra = burst chaingun with reload time)
    Even though middle weapons are from mods, they're quite balanced.
  • And finishing the set are 4 Harpoons.

Maxed out flux and conduits allow for much more dps being thrown out + fast coolin.
Thursters + engines = some decent manuverability, especially vs those darn things that love to do it from behind
(tho chainguns will give them fair share of led).
Turet gyros + ITG = shot them, before they shot you (also for intercepting missiles).
Hard extended shields = sohard.
And on the money left - missile racks.
Divide them in 2 firing groups and chew fighters that give you troubles 1 at a time.

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 09:14:14 AM by Onyvox »
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SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2015, 10:27:30 AM »

Yo dawg, gratz on the level 60 char, really rare to see something that high  ;D
Are those guns from BR? Because I don't plan on playing that mod, ever.

This one is from my .7 Nexerelin game: haven't had the luck to stumble upon a XIV Onslaught, and it's unlikely that I ever will.

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Megas

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2015, 10:35:07 AM »

Inspired by Voyager I, I replaced four Maulers with dual flak cannons, for seven dual flak cannons total.  They eat nearly every missile and fighter thrown at it, and it tears apart frigates that need to get within flak range to attack.  (Flak explosions can get around Tempests' narrow shield arc and hit it.)  It can solo the whole simulator fleet.  It is somewhat effective even if it gets stuck at max flux because flak and Vulcans are relatively flux efficient.  Between three Mjolnir, two Maulers, four Pilums, and the builtin TPCs, the Onslaught still has enough firepower to brutalize whatever is in front of it.
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SpacePoliticianAndaZealot

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Re: Tips for outfitting Onslaught (and hullmods in general)?
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2015, 10:44:40 AM »

Jeebus! I just barely got all warm and cuddly with having those cute little Vulcans! :)

Is it stock or XIV Onslaught? Of the seven dual flaks, is one on the nose?
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