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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Painting the Stars (02/07/20)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 196952 times)

Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #435 on: December 18, 2015, 04:21:16 PM »

Another small request--it'd be nice to be able to click on a notification and be taken to the full story in the Log screen, regardless of what filter is set on the Intel tab. Depending on how I'm playing at the moment, I either have the map filter set to Prices or Bounties, so it's a little annoying having to switch to All in order to read an event description. Not a huge deal, but something that comes up every few minutes while playing.
Seconding this. Kept forgot to suggest it.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #436 on: December 18, 2015, 04:30:40 PM »

Another small request--it'd be nice to be able to click on a notification and be taken to the full story in the Log screen, regardless of what filter is set on the Intel tab. Depending on how I'm playing at the moment, I either have the map filter set to Prices or Bounties, so it's a little annoying having to switch to All in order to read an event description. Not a huge deal, but something that comes up every few minutes while playing.
Seconding this. Kept forgot to suggest it.

Yeah, this one has been on my to-fix list for a while...
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #437 on: December 19, 2015, 01:50:41 AM »

Quick random thought: I bet at least half of the complaints about civilian ships being made unattractive by their "civilian grade" hullmod would be silenced if the mechanic was reversed and military ships would instead get a "military grade" mod providing a sensor boost.
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Pushover

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #438 on: December 19, 2015, 02:00:53 AM »

The "It's not a penalty, it's a bonus" might work. I certainly don't have an issue with civilian ships, since it's not like you can fill a lot of their roles with other ships. I'm willing to take a sensor penalty for the Buffalo's efficiency at carrying stuff.

My big issue right now is the fact that the Buffalo is crowding out the other ship options, since having 2 ships take the role of 1 now carries an additional sensor penalty. The Phaeton also is better than any of the other tankers.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #439 on: December 19, 2015, 10:31:36 AM »

Quick random thought: I bet at least half of the complaints about civilian ships being made unattractive by their "civilian grade" hullmod would be silenced if the mechanic was reversed and military ships would instead get a "military grade" mod providing a sensor boost.

Yeah, you're probably right about that :(

I don't want to clutter up the majority of hulls with that, though. It's supposed to be a "marker" hullmod to indicate, "hey, this is different than standard" and it just makes more sense to have that on the fewer number of ships.

It does feel like people may be overestimating the impact of it, especially on larger fleets. Probably a consequence of the "actual sensor range is something like a log scale of the strength/profile", which isn't explained very well. Need to explain this better somewhere, I think. Perhaps right on the civ-grade hullmod's tooltip. Hmm. Just not sure about how to phrase it so that it's sufficiently clear and doesn't "break character" too much.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 10:34:13 AM by Alex »
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #440 on: December 19, 2015, 11:39:58 AM »

It does feel like people may be overestimating the impact of it, especially on larger fleets. Probably a consequence of the "actual sensor range is something like a log scale of the strength/profile", which isn't explained very well. Need to explain this better somewhere, I think. Perhaps right on the civ-grade hullmod's tooltip. Hmm. Just not sure about how to phrase it so that it's sufficiently clear and doesn't "break character" too much.

Mhh...maaaybe it would not be a bad idea to hide the whole sensor profile/strenght thing completely and always refer to sensor/detection range. Even if players understand the mechanic (and that's a big if), converting between these two, and be it just as a rule of thumb estimate, is just not something players want or realistically can do.
Instead of saying "this thing doubles sensor profile" how about saying something like "this thing increases detection range, a lot in small fleets and a little in big fleets". With nicer words. I think that would help clear things up. (To be honest, that is how precise I do the conversion in my head at the moment. So, not precise at all, but its serviceable.)

Then the sensor/detection range tooltip could list how much the sensor/detection range of the fleet would decrease/increase if a specific ship would be removed from the fleet. That's tangible, practical information.

Since I'm already typing, two more things for the tooltip: It would be useful if
a) besides the medium sized fleet (maybe use a patrol as example?) also the detection range for a typical small fleet (for early pirate hunting) and big fleet (trade convoy) would be mentioned. Besides being "good to know" that would drive home the point that this is a variable, dependent value.
And b) if this range could be visualized (when hovering over it?) with a circle or somesuch. The "2000 units = 1 map grid" doesn't really cut it.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 11:47:38 AM by Gothars »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #441 on: December 19, 2015, 11:59:48 AM »

It would be nice to see circles on the map akin the Star Control 2's spheres of influences used by the races.  Too many times, I thought I was far away enough to slaughter a bunch of patrols and detachments without penalty only to discover that I was indeed still too close to the station and be locked out for "many months" yet again.

Actually, is there a cap on how much time a player needs to wait?  In other words, if I kill too many ships from several 30+ ship detachments too quickly, no more time gets added beyond the max?  One time, I slaughtered so many fleets near Jangala that I should have be banned for years, yet I was able to sneak successfully after several months passed.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #442 on: December 19, 2015, 02:03:35 PM »

@Gothars: hmm, yeah, that makes sense. I wonder if it'd raise different questions (i.e. why do the numbers for each ship keep changing as you add/remove ships?) but even so, might be more useful to see.


@Megas: it's capped at half a year.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #443 on: December 19, 2015, 02:40:45 PM »

I wonder if it'd raise different questions (i.e. why do the numbers for each ship keep changing as you add/remove ships?)

Probably, but that would be musings about the inner workings of the game, as opposed to questions about how to properly play the game (e.g. "Why can't I see further despite adding an Omen to my big fleet?" or "Should I add this civilian freighter to my tiny smuggler fleet?").
BTW, for this mechanic it would be great if the tooltip would update instantly while buying a new ship and show its potential influence on your sensors before you pay.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #444 on: December 19, 2015, 03:43:20 PM »

@ Alex:  Good to know.  At least I can hang around markets I do not care to shop at and slaughter fleets until I fill up on something.
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ChaseBears

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #445 on: December 19, 2015, 07:24:13 PM »

while i'm not opposed to psychological trickery, i don't think having a 'military sensor bonus' is a good idea. The run of the mill Starsector ship is a military vessel; it's the Civilian-grade hulls that stand out for being relatively few in number. The squeaky wheel should get the grease.
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If I were creating the world I wouldn’t mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o’clock, Day One!

Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #446 on: December 19, 2015, 08:05:44 PM »

No 0.7.2 patch notes yet?
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Serenitis

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #447 on: December 20, 2015, 12:31:38 AM »

re: civilian vs. military and scans etc.

Is there / Could there be a way of displaying on the ship info panel explicity how much a given ship will increase sensor and profile range so there is no ambiguity at all?
eg:
Spoiler

[close]
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #448 on: December 20, 2015, 05:31:28 AM »

In the codex? That wouldn't make sense for a value dependent on context. And even in campaign it would be misleading.




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Cik

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #449 on: December 20, 2015, 05:41:03 AM »

problem is that it's a sliding scale afaik, which makes it impossible to display without knowing what the sensor strength of the enemy fleet is relative to your signature.

the system we have now (the wavey lines denoting extent of sensor range) seems like maybe the best you could do.. displaying it numerically is super misleading already just because your signature will be  detected at a huge variety of ranges depending on enemy fleet strength and composition.

you could maybe model a system sort of like the system in modern aircraft (radar warning receiver, chiefly) that would passively detect enemy sensors (that are active) at long range, and then your sensors behave independently of that.

which is KIND of what we have already. kind of. but the wavey lines only appear as you are about to enter the sensor range which is a little weird.

so in this theoretical system you would have two ways to detect the enemy: passively via a sensor warning system which detects active enemy sensors passively, and an active sensor system (basically what we have now running all the time) which sends out pulses and gets returns. the active sensor system probably should have longer range, but make you far more vulnerable to detection because you are emitting something.

tl;dr there's a few ways to model it, you could make it more like a passive/active sonar system, or an aircraft's RWR/RADAR complex, or many other things i'm sure.



man i branch from topic fast.

anyway, without making every fleet on the map project a circle of it's sensor range vs your signature (which isn't really a great solution in the first place) i don't think it's possible to make it clearer, at least at the moment.

juggling the way it works a little might make it easier but i'd have to think about it, and the current system is pretty good anyway.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 05:50:21 AM by Cik »
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