Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Updated the Forum Rules and Guidelines (02/29/20); Blog post: GIF Roundup (04/11/20)

Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 39

Author Topic: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 209582 times)

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4158
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #330 on: December 07, 2015, 06:53:12 AM »

@ Gothars:  Would dropping relations down to inhospitable satisfy your faction?  If not, then this is useless since you still lose reputation with your faction.  Your idea would be good, if inhospitable is enough to keep the boss happy.

Yeah, sure, as I wrote: "I was thinking, maybe it would be enough if you get automatically dropped to "inhospitable" with other_faction, at which point your relationship to your faction is stable."

Of course, if you get all cuddly with the other_faction, above "inhospitable", you would again be hit with regular rep penalties by your faction.


Random shakedowns were aggravating to say the least; I am glad to see them gone!  The current way is better if you really need to sneak.

I completely agree, but that was largely because they were ubiquitous, felt completely arbitrary and took forever to get through.

If you bind them to a very specific condition where they make sense and make them more succinct they might be fun. If you're in the space of an inhospitable faction I think it would make sense to get inspected because
- you can't trade legally and the likelihood you're there for illegal business is indeed high, and
- the faction doesn't like you and wants to make your life hard.

I mean, atm running with illegal goods is pretty much risk free (read: boring) if you always keep your transponder on. Some more need for sneakiness from time to time would not hurt.
Neither would clearer differentiation between faction reputation levels.
Logged

Schwartz

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #331 on: December 07, 2015, 07:39:45 AM »

One way to make shakedowns situational and tie them into the black market system would be that if you end up getting caught black market trading (losing rep; no full investigation), one result is that the patrols of that faction may pull you over if they see you close-by with a transponder on.

But then I've never understood these two vastly different outcomes. If you lose a small amount of rep black market trading, that means they 'caught' you and they know who you are. Is an investigation considered an information leak that goes 'public', as in, media coverage? Forcing a faction's hand?
Logged

nomadic_leader

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 725
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #332 on: December 07, 2015, 07:42:56 AM »

I'm not sure what you're saying, why do you need to be come hostile with "everyone"? Unless you're joining the faction at a time when it's hostile with everyone, I suppose.

... thinking about just making hostility automatic, though, i.e. w/o making you need to hunt down that faction's fleet. Have a commission, and the other faction is at war with yours? Hostile!

This probably makes sense-- but after the hostility events and the general amnesties, your relations with the formerly hostile factions should drop back to merely suspicious.

In this way taking a comission makes it like you're really joining the faction and your relations with other factions will be determined by the interstellar politics, not your own actions.
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4158
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #333 on: December 07, 2015, 07:46:19 AM »

If you lose a small amount of rep black market trading, that means they 'caught' you and they know who you are.

Pretty sure that just means they got a little bit suspicious. It's reputation we talking about, so it can all be based on hearsay, rumors and being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Investigations happen when you're caught.




after the hostility events and the general amnesties, your relations with the formerly hostile factions should drop back to merely suspicious.

That is what happens :)
Logged

Psilous

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #334 on: December 07, 2015, 08:03:00 AM »

Perhaps player v faction hostilities just start on a timer? 10 days or something?

e.g. "You have declared loyalty for <faction>. <other_faction> will actively expel you from their controlled space in <number of days>".

That sounds good.


Hm, what I don't like about it is that you have no choice in the matter anymore. Sometimes I care more about doing my own stuff than participating in my faction's silly (or scary) wars, which would be hard with that change. Bounties, missions or explorations that lead me into the space of the other_faction (which is in some cases almost everywhere) will become very hard to reach. This is especially true if your fleet is still small (you can easily get commissioned while in the starter frigate) and you can't really trade blows with other_faction's patrols yet. And that, after all, is the time where you most need the bounties/missions to grow.

I was thinking, maybe it would be enough if you get automatically dropped to "inhospitable" with other_faction, at which point your relationship to your faction is stable. You couldn't trade with the others anymore, but still traverse their space without being outright killed. Or you can actively decide to attack and take it to "hostile", at which point your faction might "welcome you to the war" with a reputation bonus (once per war). (Rewards are always more fun than punishments.)


It would also make sense for inhospitable (and  suspicious?)  factions to make random inspections even if your transponder is on (without the old waiting bar please) so smuggling in their space gets a bit more exciting.

I'm with you Gothars, this sounds rational and interesting. Also adds a bit to the game. Plus add in the possibility of doing real smuggling runs!

Think about doing those burns trying to get past patrols and drop planet side to leave some illegal weapons and stims with the local rebels to destabilize their planet even more (nice rep bonus maybe from faction). Then trying to outrun them as you leave the system!
Logged

miljan

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #335 on: December 07, 2015, 10:49:44 AM »

A stupid question, but how can I change faction commission? I am with hegemony (have around 90 reputation), but want to change it to Independent  (with witch i have 100), so how can I do it? Do i need to attack hegemony?
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 16619
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #336 on: December 07, 2015, 10:53:57 AM »

Hm, what I don't like about it is that you have no choice in the matter anymore. Sometimes I care more about doing my own stuff than participating in my faction's silly (or scary) wars, which would be hard with that change. Bounties, missions or explorations that lead me into the space of the other_faction (which is in some cases almost everywhere) will become very hard to reach. This is especially true if your fleet is still small (you can easily get commissioned while in the starter frigate) and you can't really trade blows with other_faction's patrols yet. And that, after all, is the time where you most need the bounties/missions to grow.

I was thinking, maybe it would be enough if you get automatically dropped to "inhospitable" with other_faction, at which point your relationship to your faction is stable. You couldn't trade with the others anymore, but still traverse their space without being outright killed. Or you can actively decide to attack and take it to "hostile", at which point your faction might "welcome you to the war" with a reputation bonus (once per war). (Rewards are always more fun than punishments.)

It would also make sense for inhospitable (and  suspicious?)  factions to make random inspections even if your transponder is on (without the old waiting bar please) so smuggling in their space gets a bit more exciting.

Hmm. Yeah, that does make sense. I've been thinking about the "transponder on smuggling" stuff - considering inspections when there's any suspicion of smuggling. Adding "or inhospitable" to that might make sense, too.

One potential problem is that if you're smuggling stuff that's not illegal, but you're just planning to sell on the black market, contraband scans won't do anything to deter you. Having to go transponder off to reduce investigation chances is a way to at least partially get around that, but investigations are a bit of an, ah, blunt instrument. Customs also charging tolls - once you're being watched, that is - might do the job, though.


A stupid question, but how can I change faction commission? I am with hegemony (have around 90 reputation), but want to change it to Independent  (with witch i have 100), so how can I do it? Do i need to attack hegemony?

At the moment, yeah. Anything that drops you to suspicious with them will do it.
Logged

miljan

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #337 on: December 07, 2015, 11:21:35 AM »

I would really like to see inspections/shakedowns   in some form back in the game, both for you, and to see when AI does it to others. It makes the world feel a lot more alive and active. If it can be implemented in some way, would be great.
Logged

Toxcity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #338 on: December 07, 2015, 11:57:03 AM »

Don't luddic path fleets do something like that now? Maybe their tithe mechanic could be extended to pirates (with a different name of course).
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 8107
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #339 on: December 07, 2015, 11:59:02 AM »

In 0.7a, I carried contraband (organs) not to sell on black market, but to deliver (to doctors) in missions.  If I got stopped by customs, my response would be to attack the patrol (or more accurately, refuse the scan and get attacked) because I would not let the patrol seize half million credits worth of organs sitting in my cargo space.

I would sell supplies and fuel to the black market.  Dealing with anything aside from food fuel, supplies, and organs were more trouble than they were worth.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 02:15:51 PM by Megas »
Logged

Aeson

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #340 on: December 07, 2015, 01:03:38 PM »

Quote
One potential problem is that if you're smuggling stuff that's not illegal, but you're just planning to sell on the black market, contraband scans won't do anything to deter you.
Cargo inspections could be used to catch the player smuggling goods out of a market rather than into it; the local patrol knows that the player purchased X credits of stuff on the open market and the player (is assumed to have) declared Y credits worth of specified (legal) cargoes that the player had coming into the port and did not sell prior to departure. Patrol scans the cargo bay and finds Z > X + Y credits worth of cargo (using open-market prices as of the time the player left the port, or more likely just using the number of units of cargo rather than the value, possibly with a fudge factor involved and maybe some allowance for engagements). If Z is only a little greater than X + Y (say, 10% or less), that's maybe a little suspicious, but nothing to be too concerned about. If Z is a lot greater than X + Y (say, between 10% and 50%, then that's a strong indication that the player is involved in smuggling activity and will make it more likely for the player's activities to be investigated in the (near) future, but perhaps not enough that the patrol is (legally) entitled to take any immediate overt action against the player (either demanding payment of tariffs or attacking the player). If Z is enormously greater than X + Y (say, greater than 50%), the patrol is legally entitled to (attempt to) collect either the unpaid tariffs or the illegally-acquired cargo (i.e. the patrol gets to demand money and attack the player if payment is refused, and the player gets flagged as likely being engaged in smuggling activity at this planet). And maybe for any of this you can (try to) bribe the patrol to go bother someone else and not report the transgression, or at least understate it, resulting in a lower likelihood of suffering an investigation for the smuggling.

I also think that if the player accepts a legal mission requiring an illegal cargo, and that mission was offered by the faction to which the patrol belongs, then illegal cargo of the type requested by the mission should be at least partly ignored by the patrol (maybe not to the extent that having a mission for 10 units of organs will cover you when you're caught with 1000 units of organs, but that contract might cover you if you get caught with 20 units of organs).
Logged

Troll

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #341 on: December 07, 2015, 01:14:49 PM »

Got to "C:\Program Files (x86)\Fractal Softworks\Starsector\starsector-core\data\config\", open the file "settings.json" with a text editor and find "enableShipExplosionWhiteout":true. Change it to false. VoilĂ  :)

Thanks will notepad it to keep it close.
I take it completely removes the fireworks, hence the request for some sort of filter to make it less bright. Still, many thanks this will be put to good use. :D
Logged

Euqocelbbog

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #342 on: December 07, 2015, 02:27:16 PM »

The bribe amount sounds way wrong. It's supposed to max out at 100k credits when the investigation has a maxed out chance of starting/finding you guilty. If it's just a minor BM purchase here and there, the bribe shouldn't rise much about 10k.

Checked into it a bit - looks like there's a bug where it wasn't being properly capped, but still, to get to 192k credits, the probability of an investigation (i.e. suspicion level) had to go to almost 200%. Which would require selling a *lot* of stuff on the black market, or for the market to be really small. So I suppose it's possible that this is a legitimate outcome - if you sold 40 drugs at a premium to a very small market, then this might have happened, but it still sounds unlikely. I just tried selling 40 drugs to a size 5 market, and the investigation chance from that was 20%. so to get to 190% or so? I suppose it is possible, with a market with a lower trade volume and high stability. Are you sure that black market ship purchases and such weren't involved?

Anyway, the major difference in effect from selling the same amount on a small vs large market is rather hidden from the player... hm. Something I'll need to look at, for sure. Right now smuggling investigations are there so that there's a real risk to smuggling (plus, sneaking into a market to pay a bribe can be fun, though the issue there is it just interrupts whatever you were doing, and that can be annoying, hence the long duration); but might be able to find another way of accomplishing the same thing.

For context, the drug sale was to Coatl, the Hegemony military base in the Aztlan system. I don't remember the size of the market offhand but I imagine it's fairly small. Coatl did have a significant demand for drugs when I sold, as I was holding onto them for a big payday. I don't remember exactly, but the profit was probably around 30-35k for the load of 40. Didn't do any other smuggling during that trip.

I dig the system of smuggling being a risk, but I think the game just needs to better communicate the gravity of how serious an investigation might be. Something as simple as an added note to the log notification that "hey, all the evidence is arrayed against you and if you don't bribe the investigator you're gonna get canned" would go a long, long way towards making the system appear more logical and would alleviate a lot of the associated frustration. When bounties on pirate and deserter fleets that aren't too intimidating net rewards in the realm of hundreds of thousands of credits, a smuggling run worth 30k is not immediately apparent as something of significant consequence.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 16619
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #343 on: December 07, 2015, 02:31:24 PM »

Thanks for the added info - funny, Coatl is the exact market I was using to test this out. What you're saying makes sense, need more transparency here at the very least.

Well, I guess at least for now you know that smuggling investigations are serious business :)
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 8107
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #344 on: December 07, 2015, 02:37:08 PM »

Re: smuggling
I would not want my reputation crashing down from Cooperative to Vengeful just because I did too much commerce with a big Black Market.  If anything, the minimum penalty should be greater (i.e, more than -5) if the transaction is extreme.  It should not lower relations to Vengeful unless there is a way to improve relations from there.

Going down to inhospitable is serious enough for most factions because that makes trading harder (no missions, cannot use open market).
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 39