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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Painting the Stars (02/07/20)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.7.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 196936 times)

Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #90 on: December 01, 2015, 09:15:57 PM »

Question - which files containing texts(for player to see) recieved changes? rules.csv obviously, and what else?
Translating stuff and, you know, having to check all the files for change is terrible.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #91 on: December 01, 2015, 09:28:00 PM »

Interaction of "low engine interference" with hullmods is an interesting question.
Will single Omen have only 4 sensor strength, ignoring it's bonus?
What about single civilian grade frigate with augmented engines? still 4?

Hmm... How about making bonus value not [4 - sensor strength], but [4 - sensor profile]. This will solve all above issues, and works as is for usual military vessels. Slight buff to phase ships as side effect though.

Oh, good call. Did that. Slight buff to phase ships from this makes perfect sense, this is nice.


Question - which files containing texts(for player to see) recieved changes? rules.csv obviously, and what else?
Translating stuff and, you know, having to check all the files for change is terrible.

Uhh. Yes it is! Which is why I can't really answer your question definitively. reports.csv, for sure. descriptions.csv, I'd imagine - for typos if nothing else. Pretty sure I also touched strings.json. Beyond that... might I recommend BeyondCompare?
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #92 on: December 01, 2015, 10:05:23 PM »

Sounds exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
(Confused reports.csv with rules.csv...)
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Achataeon

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #93 on: December 01, 2015, 10:33:16 PM »

Interaction of "low engine interference" with hullmods is an interesting question.
Will single Omen have only 4 sensor strength, ignoring it's bonus?
What about single civilian grade frigate with augmented engines? still 4?

Hmm... How about making bonus value not [4 - sensor strength], but [4 - sensor profile]. This will solve all above issues, and works as is for usual military vessels. Slight buff to phase ships as side effect though.

Oh, good call. Did that. Slight buff to phase ships from this makes perfect sense, this is nice.

Uhm. Sorry to be a bother but could somebody explain what just happened? To break it down to a layman's point of view, what happens to the sensor strength and sensor profile with the aforementioned changes?
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Voyager I

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #94 on: December 01, 2015, 11:24:35 PM »

Found simple, repeatable bug/issue.  The Tempest's shield arc is too small to protect it from an Omen's EMP emitter.  It will get fried every time it comes near, even with its shields up.  I'm not sure if this part is a bug or an intended interaction, but if the latter is the case then the issue is that the Tempest doesn't know its shields won't work and will willingly, repeatedly bring itself into EMP range to get its engines turned off.
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TaLaR

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #95 on: December 01, 2015, 11:48:37 PM »

Uhm. Sorry to be a bother but could somebody explain what just happened? To break it down to a layman's point of view, what happens to the sensor strength and sensor profile with the aforementioned changes?

Having strict 4 minimal sensor strength makes sensor strength of single frigate (or several of them, to lesser extent) not important. For single frigate any value in 0..4 range would work exactly same.
Changes I proposed preserve hullmod bonuses/penalties to sensors (considering that penalties apply to both sensor strength and visibility), while maintaining same minimum of 4 for ships that have no such hullmods.
Makes lore sense too, consider this analogy: it's easier to hear things, when you are quiet yourself.

Found simple, repeatable bug/issue.  The Tempest's shield arc is too small to protect it from an Omen's EMP emitter.  It will get fried every time it comes near, even with its shields up.  I'm not sure if this part is a bug or an intended interaction, but if the latter is the case then the issue is that the Tempest doesn't know its shields won't work and will willingly, repeatedly bring itself into EMP range to get its engines turned off.

Yes, Tempest's shield is somewhat hard to use even for player. Though it's also a benefit too - you are a smaller target (when you correctly align your hull behind shield).
Having AI better understand narrow shield limitations would be certainly nice.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 11:51:08 PM by TaLaR »
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Originem

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2015, 12:12:36 AM »

if the "getDescriptionParam" in hullmods can add a param like Fleetmemer ,it will be great :-\
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Voyager I

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2015, 12:37:38 AM »

Uhm. Sorry to be a bother but could somebody explain what just happened? To break it down to a layman's point of view, what happens to the sensor strength and sensor profile with the aforementioned changes?

Having strict 4 minimal sensor strength makes sensor strength of single frigate (or several of them, to lesser extent) not important. For single frigate any value in 0..4 range would work exactly same.
Changes I proposed preserve hullmod bonuses/penalties to sensors (considering that penalties apply to both sensor strength and visibility), while maintaining same minimum of 4 for ships that have no such hullmods.
Makes lore sense too, consider this analogy: it's easier to hear things, when you are quiet yourself.

Found simple, repeatable bug/issue.  The Tempest's shield arc is too small to protect it from an Omen's EMP emitter.  It will get fried every time it comes near, even with its shields up.  I'm not sure if this part is a bug or an intended interaction, but if the latter is the case then the issue is that the Tempest doesn't know its shields won't work and will willingly, repeatedly bring itself into EMP range to get its engines turned off.

Yes, Tempest's shield is somewhat hard to use even for player. Though it's also a benefit too - you are a smaller target (when you correctly align your hull behind shield).
Having AI better understand narrow shield limitations would be certainly nice.

Honestly, I don't mind the Tempest having a soft counter in (though another premium high-tech frigate might not be the place where that counter is most needed), but I do mind one of the rarest and most expensive frigates in the game not understanding what is essentially a fixed interaction if it comes within EMP range.  I'm not sure if this is a new thing, because I don't remember it happening before.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #98 on: December 02, 2015, 03:58:46 AM »

Interaction of "low engine interference" with hullmods is an interesting question.
Will single Omen have only 4 sensor strength, ignoring it's bonus?
What about single civilian grade frigate with augmented engines? still 4?

Hmm... How about making bonus value not [4 - sensor strength], but [4 - sensor profile]. This will solve all above issues, and works as is for usual military vessels. Slight buff to phase ships as side effect though.

Oh, good call. Did that. Slight buff to phase ships from this makes perfect sense, this is nice.


Wait a minute, if I got this right, it doesn't work out.

It is nice for most ships, but what about civilian vessels above frigate? For example the Atlas: It has Sensor profile 8 and sensor strength 2. With this formula it would have 2 + (4-8) = -2 sensor strength! A civilian cruiser would have -0.5, destroyers 1. Would that mean big civilian ships are (practically) blind when alone? That doesn't make sense.

You could of course apply the non interference bonus before the hullmods are factored in, although phase ships would not get any bonus that way. Then the Atlas would have (4+(4-4)=4 )/2 =2. Same with all other civilians.

This has another problem though, ships with high resolution sensors.
The Omen would have (1+(4-1) =4)*4 =16 sensor strength, which seems excessive. With hullmod applied first it would have 4+(4-1)=7.


Mh, maybe the different hullmods have to be applied at different times in the calculation?

Sensor strength would work out this way, from cap to frigate:
Spoiler
Civilian Grade, hullmod applied later:
(4+(4-4)) /2 =2
(3+(4-3)) /2 =2
(2+(4-2)) /2 =2
(1+(4-1)) /2 =2

Phase Field, hullmod applied first:
4+(4-(4*0.25))=7
3+(4-(3*0.25))=6.25
2+(4-(2*0.25))=5.5
1+(4-(1*0.25))=4.75

High Res Sensors, hullmod applied first:
(4*2)+(4-4)= 8
(3*2)+(4-3)= 7
(2*3)+(4-2)= 8
(1*4)+(4-1)= 7

Multiple Kite fleet:
((1+(4-1))/2)    =2 sensor strength for 1 Kite (currently .5)
((1+(3-1))/2)*2=3 sensor strength for 2 Kites (currently 1)
((1+(2-1))/2)*3=3 sensor strength for 3 Kites (currently 1.5)
((1+(1-1))/2)*4=2 sensor strength for 4 Kites (currently 2)

Multiple Omen fleet:
((1*4)+(4-1))    = 7 sensor strength for 1 Omen (currently 4)
((1*4)+(3-1))*2=12 sensor strength for 2 Omens (currently 8 )
((1*4)+(2-1))*3=15 sensor strength for 3 Omens (currently 12)
((1*4)+(1-1))*4=16 sensor strength for 4 Omens (currently 16)

Multiple Afflictor Fleet:
(1+(4-(1*0.25)))     =4.75 sensor strength for 1 Afflictor (currently 1)
(1+(3-(1*0.25)))*2 =7.5 sensor strength for 2 Afflictors (currently 2)
(1+(2-(1*0.25)))*3 =8.25 sensor strength for 3 Afflictors (currently 3)
(1+(1-(1*0.25)))*4 =7 sensor strength for 4 Afflictors (currently 4)

OK, enough.
[close]

A bit wonky, but more reasonable than blinding civilians or just circumventing hullmods for small fleets, I believe.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #99 on: December 02, 2015, 05:03:39 AM »

Tempest (and Hyperion) almost needs Extended Shields - get it.  You better have a good reason not to use Extended Shields.
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Clockwork Owl

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2015, 05:15:47 AM »

0.7 RC10. Hegemony convoys keep jumping into Hybrasil and getting destroyed. With transponder on on their run for lives. Clearly not an intended behavior, but is it even worse - a bug?

I don't see any reason why would they jump in here.
*Hybrasil has - or should have - no destination for them.
*The system is located in a remote area. There is no reasonable route which leads near Hybrasil, unless the departure or destination is Hybrasil. With the exception of Yma - Askonia, but who on earth has business in Yma? Drifting in with empty fuel is not the case here.

Tempest (and Hyperion) almost needs Extended Shields - get it.  You better have a good reason not to use Extended Shields.
I guess a Terminator carrier with timid officer is a reason not good enough, right? Aside from the fact that a single Terminator can't really terminate anything with shields

Another question, does patrols tolerate you with transponder off after you accept the commission?
Also think that you should be able to accept commission at welcoming or above.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 05:59:30 AM by Aron0621 »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #101 on: December 02, 2015, 06:23:11 AM »

Hybrasil has two Independent markets.  Tri-Tachyon is not the only faction living there, though they dominate that system.

Tempest (and Hyperion) almost needs Extended Shields - get it.  You better have a good reason not to use Extended Shields.
I guess a Terminator carrier with timid officer is a reason not good enough, right? Aside from the fact that a single Terminator can't really terminate anything with shields
If I want to take over and use it myself as a temporary flagship, I do want Extended Shields (unless I attempt double blaster configuration, which AI cannot use effectively).  More aggressive AI using a Tempest benefits from Extended Shields.
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TaLaR

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #102 on: December 02, 2015, 06:34:50 AM »

@Gothars
I assumed that:
1)Bonus is applied only if positive
2)Bonus is calculated once per fleet, not per ship

So:
now -> min 4 total -> +max(0, 4-profile)

(1,1) -> (4,1) -> (4,1) normal frigate
(4,1) -> (4,1) -> (7,1) single Omen
(0.5,2) -> (4, 2) -> (2.5, 2) single civilian frigate
(16,4) -> (16,4) -> (16,4) four Omens, unaffected either way
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Chronosfear

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2015, 07:13:06 AM »

Hey Alex.
Can you answer a little question : Does the damage buff and such only apply to the piloted ship or every ship of my fleet ( since its altered to the current game option )

and maybe you might consider giving us a little more flexibility in choosing the difficulty other then editing the files.
Like adding a simple question for each of the settings.
could be like
In my Universe I´m ...
...a master of weapons (easy : 150% player damage)
...just normal as everyone (normal : 100% player damage)
...happy if that weapon at least tries to do what I want (hard : 50?(75%) player damage)

the same with damage taken, sensor range and supplies dropped:
Could also add a question for boarding with different % ( maybe 20% for easy , 10% for normal , and the current 5% for hard )

Also the sensor range could just be just 150% of base
( if your fleet is larger, then bonus is higher i know but who cares , you´re playing on easy anyway)
and that would add an option for hard ( 75% sensor range )  :o

also i like the removal of the faction ties feature, while still being "forced" to join a faction via faction commisions.

Chronosfear

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Re: Starsector 0.7.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2015, 08:36:44 AM »

Maybe, devs should reconsider chances of boarding?  ::) Current 5% chance is too low and makes boarding feature (marines) in game totally useless. I've changed chances to 20% and it makes sense now.
Wait, how do I do that?
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