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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)  (Read 444708 times)

shoi

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1005 on: October 15, 2019, 09:59:48 PM »

I didn't know the ship system gave them an actual buff either, it did seemed like they were better when I used them, but I chalked that up to fighter buffs of my character

I personally think its a good system, depending on the wing the carrier has, because you can absurd amount of damage with piloted wanzer. before the nerf to  zephyr you could melt big ships by just flying above them and using aether splitter
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 10:02:10 PM by shoi »
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Florian

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1006 on: October 16, 2019, 11:35:24 AM »

I tried a new game with Nexerelin and Hegemony + Luddic invaded Sivie in first years with huge fleets. I tried to fight back but... I was just outnumbered.

I don't know if it is working as intended and somebody told it was not Nexerelin itself but Diable Avionics mod.
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AgentFransis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1007 on: October 16, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »

It's just the luck of the draw. In my experience Diable usually loses Staging Point Eclipse and Forward Operating Base to the Hegamony but holds on to Sivie and Belt Operations (though in my last game Belt got decivilized). You can resurrect them if you want by giving them a planet.
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Florian

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1008 on: October 16, 2019, 01:31:56 PM »

If i colonize a system, build structures on it and then give it to the DA, it will sell capitals and rare stuff i don't have blueprints for ?
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AgentFransis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1009 on: October 16, 2019, 04:27:59 PM »

Yes, but what you really want is to capture and give them a military world so you can access the military market. It just has to have heavy industry.
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Florian

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1010 on: October 26, 2019, 06:16:20 AM »

Hi.

On second toughts... why does diable's projectiles (gun shots and missiles, even laser thickness) are often smaller than vanilla counterparts. Not Uhlan shots of course...

And to summarize, that's what the diable's fleet lacks IMHO (while being pretty complete ATM).
- bigger freighter, bigger tanker
- capital carrier, (you won't for balance issues. It's ok. I still put it there, just in case =)
- science ship (aka cruiser with mandatory build in surveying mod, maybe high res sensors and/or solar shielding...)
- small medium and large missile weapon variants for all missiles type (and the missile ship, with large mount that goes with it ^ ^). For example, I'd like to have small unguided rocket pod or large micro-missile launcher.

Regards.



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Annaamarth

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1011 on: October 26, 2019, 05:02:35 PM »

Actually, I think all of those roles are either well-filled- or probably inappropriate to the DA fleet. Details in the spoiler.

Spoiler
As far as "bigger tanker/freighter" goes, the Rime does both freight and tankage- not as well as a dedicated civilian ship, perhaps, but it does both, can be tuned for one or the other with hullmods, and comes with the added benefit of being a potential combat-deployable at 15DP (pads your DP score a bit).  If you want dedicated freight, I think the existing civilian options are better- because DA has no civilian ships. Everything they have is built not only for war, but for combat.

The DA tug includes salvage gear, and can be used to benefit a science mission (at the cost of everything tugs cost), and also can help turn a capital-grade fleet into a fast, strong raiding and survey fleet. This is the catchall fleet support ship, and I find it's not worth using unless you have 8-10 Rimes supporting capitals to use it. The Science ship you describe is the Apogee, and it's not mandatory. I don't think most vanilla factions have an equivalent, and a new Apogee would just be an Apogee.

If you want to mass Wanzer deployments, look no further than the Storm battlecarrier- 3 squadrons with a deployment focus on a 28DP platform. You can field just about two per Astral, I believe, and use them to bolster your Pandemonium or Maelstroms.

However, DA fleet doctrine uses Wanzers primarily as a supporting unit, not a strike package. There are other carriers (and factions) that do that better, and I think what the DA does use perfectly fits their niche.

Instead of using fighters or other small craft as strike packages, DA has frigates and destroyers with abundant room for missiles- either micromissiles, if you want to mount Hardened and go for a sustained engagement or, more likely, a stack of Harpoons supported by Recson V shieldpiercers (or HVDs if you're going to shop out-of-faction, you traitor).  Those strike packages really are their missile boats and make great pursuit and raiding units. You can mount missiles on their bigger ships, sure, but DA doctrine doesn't need big missile-focussed ships- they have small ones in spades.

Remember- the DA are not flexible. They are a fanatically militant society bent on domination, not exploration or trade. They are the edgelord weebs, they who swear that the katana should deal more than 1d10 damage, and the faction most likely to say "nothing personnel kid" when a trio of Maelstroms flicker into flanking positions and beat the hell out of you.

Trying to make them more doctrinally flexible would weaken their theme, I think, water down what makes them special, as well as infringing on the other factions who are more flexible and generic- TTC, PL, Heg, etc.
[close]

Edit: I should admit bias here- I love DA as a faction and their flavour. I'd love to see more fluff, maybe more history and background, but I love what's there.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 05:04:38 PM by Annaamarth »
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Kanil

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1012 on: October 27, 2019, 12:56:02 AM »

The Laminar is probably my favorite surveyor ship in the whole game. Obviously it's not particularly useful in a fight, but if you want a ship that can survey DA already has you covered.

Many other factions (and even vanilla) feature cruisers with surveying equipment, and I don't bother with them -- the Laminar isn't as sexy, but it's got them beat hands down in efficiency.

Also it's an adorable little box.
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Florian

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1013 on: October 27, 2019, 07:25:16 AM »

Hi.

I don't pick surveying / sensor ships under cruiser size (because of the hullsize relative bonus). I used to fit 5 rims vith surveying + high res sensor, though it forbid me to have expanded cargo holds (i hate this limitation, that's why i often search build in non-combat mods).

ATM, the exploration capital Dassault - Mikoyan suit my needs.
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braciszek

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1014 on: October 29, 2019, 02:51:33 AM »

Could someone explain to me how to use DA ships and equipment? Wanzers when used right are deadly, but I am awful at flying and using their ships. It may also be that I try to use DA weapons as well, which I unfamiliar with using in terms of gauging flux consumption and weapon performance.

How should I use them? Aggressively, or kite and avoid enemy engagement?

How should I compose my fleets if I plan on incorporating different DA ships?

How should I use each ship? What kind of tactics should i perform in an engagement for maximum ship performance? (are they good at attrition or good at fast attacks?)

What engagements do DA excel at, or suffer against?

The DA aesthetic is very pleasing, and I want to learn how to master their strengths.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 02:55:10 AM by braciszek »
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SapphireSage

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1015 on: October 30, 2019, 06:16:46 AM »

DA ships tend to be more about battle carriers with their Advanced Avionics hullmod. The gist is that Wanzers take a long time to replace and will eat Replacement Rate while Advanced Avionics gets stronger the longer the battle takes. Wanzers are good early in the fight when you replace them quickly, but start dropping off when advanced Avionics starts making your weapons more effective and raises your ships acceleration capabilities.

DA has ships that are good at both for ideal "Hammer and Anvil" strategies. Ships like the Haze and Hayle that have flicker and are laden with missiles make good strikers while ships like Daze are better at holding a line, esp. with Accelerated ammo feeder.
If you want to use the long range HE weapon (SRAB) you'll need wanzers and micro missiles to distract enemy PD to help it get through since its like a slow, fragile missile.

Depends on what you want for your fleet, personally I went wanzer heavy, but going light on fighters and heavier on striking ships could work too.

The common "Hammer and Anvil" strategy or having a good line to hold while flankers go around to trap and finish is good with DA's mobility and missile heavy ship loadouts.

DA is good with both attrition (due to Advanced Avionics to a point) and striking (Hayle can carry 6 torpedos and Haze has 2 mediums worth).

From my DA playthroughs using Wanzer heavy fleets, DA is strong against enemies that focus forward but poor peripheries like II.

If you're using Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering, their fights are going to be a lot harder due to your lack of 360 shields and their heavy reliance on EMP weaponry. Their fighters and EMP will also tend to wipe away your wanzers quickly.

Currently, Zephyrs are very strong especially against other fighters with its 2 medium beam weapons.
The Maelstrom is one of the best capitals in the modiverse IMO thanks to its strong mobility and versatility.
The Pandamonium has a very high Alpha striking capability if you want to use that though.
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Modo44

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1016 on: October 30, 2019, 08:51:53 AM »

If you face DME or any other fighter-heavy faction, the "too flux-expensive" beam repeaters from Diable Avionics (Glaux, Burchel) come into play. While frigates and destroyers will have trouble fitting them, they easily fit on the cruisers and heavier ships. For reference, a defensively set up Maelstrom (40 DP) can solo a Jeanne d'Arc (55 DP, Astral levels of fighter silliness).
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Annaamarth

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1017 on: October 30, 2019, 02:58:10 PM »

I found they really came into their own once a solid anvil could be built- I cheated and used out-of-faction Eagle and Vulture-style cruisers with Arbitrator cheap armour support, supported by Storms and using Vapors, Hayles and a Haze for the flank and enclosure.

Eventually I added a Maelstrom with HVDs, IBIS, Micromissiles, Tachlance, and bow Arbitrator rockets for making hostile capitals sad, and found it to be a a marvelously flexible platform.

A pair of Maelstroms each escorted by a pair of Storms gives some tanky defenses.

For Wanzers, I went for the tougher, more survivable sort and I keep them in supporting range to strengthen the firebubble- they are not a strike package.

Edit: Early, a Hayle with Recson V for kinetic poke and six MRM racks can punch well above its weight (but I probably over PD'd with two Raptor mounts).  Just remember that flicker costs flux and don't overexpose. I think the DA fleet doctrine likes long-ranged, pokey weapons if you shop out-of-faction, but ymmv.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 03:15:33 PM by Annaamarth »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1018 on: October 31, 2019, 04:46:30 AM »

For those that don't luck on the discord server, here is a bit of progress on the spritework:
[close]
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 04:48:09 AM by Tartiflette »
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Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1019 on: October 31, 2019, 04:48:58 AM »

I could have sworn DA already got a sprite re-work, but the new sprites are clearly better regardless.
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