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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)  (Read 444889 times)

Null Ganymede

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.01 (2018/12/13)
« Reply #855 on: December 15, 2018, 04:14:13 PM »

Once the next balance patch (hopefully) shores up some core economies and penalizes Free Port, it will make a lot more sense. It's nice to dock at a station and suddenly realize "oh, they're doing colony management as a player would".

Hopefully being hostile to most of the sector will be enough to disrupt supply lines to create good trade missions.
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SapphireSage

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.01 (2018/12/13)
« Reply #856 on: December 15, 2018, 09:45:04 PM »

Aww, does that mean that the market info saying "Glares pierce into you as looks of contempt let you know you're merely tolerated, not welcomed." might be changed?
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Iska

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.01 (2018/12/13)
« Reply #857 on: December 18, 2018, 02:10:07 AM »

Not sure if its intended but since its pointless i mark this as a bug .

Sometimes  Diable Avionics give system bounties which is ALWAYS  triggered by pirates .
The problem is  Diable Avionics isnt hostile to pirates so system is full of fleet of pirates but since they arent enemies with  Diable Avionics you dont get money or rep for kiling them and make system bounty posted by  Diable Avionics pontless .

Can you make  Diable Avionics enemy with pirates , is there is any way to trigger this in game ?
Never saw  Diable Avionics enemy with pirates .

Thanks
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 02:15:03 AM by Iska »
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arwan

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.01 (2018/12/13)
« Reply #858 on: December 18, 2018, 04:37:57 AM »

there is a way to do this using the console commands mod.

with that you can set factions relationships with each other.
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Alex
You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

Hazard

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.01 (2018/12/13)
« Reply #859 on: December 28, 2018, 04:27:49 AM »

The Heavy Flicker Core description has a typo: it says it stores 2 charges, instead of the 4 it actually does.
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grinningsphinx

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.01 (2018/12/13)
« Reply #860 on: January 04, 2019, 09:12:58 AM »

Thunderbolt MRM is missing both speed and tracking information.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #861 on: January 05, 2019, 08:40:47 AM »



Preemptive update for Nexerelin as well as some minor balancing tweaks and a rework of the economy toward self sufficiency.

Download link in the first post.

Changelog:
Spoiler
2.02

 - Updated compatibility with Nexerelin.

BALANCING:
 - Dampened Mount hullmod:
   . Only affects projectile weapons, not beams,
   . Increased OP cost to 10/15/25/40 from 10/15/20/30,
   . Now reduces the firerate of the weapons by 20%.

 - IBIS pd:
   . Flux per shot reduced to 3 from 9 (60 flux/s from 180),
   . Range raised to 350 from 300,
   . Added limited ammo and regenerating clips.

 - Raptor pd now also has limited ammo and regenerating charges.

BUGFIXES/IMPROVEMENTS:
 - Shuffled some blueprints, neither package contains any capital ship like with vanilla.
 - Campaign relations slightly adjusted toward hostilities.
 - Slightly tweaked the economy toward self sufficiency (while keeping the loot from raids):
   . Removed Eclipse Station nanoforge.
   . Removed all Freeport statuses.
   . Removed all Waystation and Commerce industries.
 - Fixed Flicker Core description error.
 - Added missing info to missile stat cards.
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Starareo

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #862 on: January 12, 2019, 11:39:03 AM »

Does anyone have a general guide on which fighters from the mod are best for each role? I just go by the card description, but would like to hear other opinions.
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SapphireSage

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #863 on: January 13, 2019, 12:25:30 AM »


BALANCING:
 - Dampened Mount hullmod:
   . Only affects projectile weapons, not beams,
   . Increased OP cost to 10/15/25/40 from 10/15/20/30,
   . Now reduces the firerate of the weapons by 20%.

 - IBIS pd:
   . Flux per shot reduced to 3 from 9 (60 flux/s from 180),
   . Range raised to 350 from 300,
   . Added limited ammo and regenerating clips.

 - Raptor pd now also has limited ammo and regenerating charges.

I want to ask about some of these changes if that's okay please.

Starting off, what was the primary reason behind the dampened mounts changes? I understand that they're because it's now a learnable and equipable hullmod, but originally it was made to help counteract the range disadvantage that the Maelstrom and Pandemonium had due their length and the large weapons at the back end. Now though, because dampened mounts is built in for them it feels like they're getting heavy nerfs of more fragile weapons and a straight damage loss of 20% from the lower fire rate to make up for the hullmod being usable with any ship which feels a little bad I guess to read the description of a built-in hullmod for a capital ship you just got and see its full of disadvantages to the ship and you can't get rid of it.

While it is nice to see that the IBIS got a hefty flux/dam buff to make it usable in comparison I'm unsure as to the change to make the IBIS and Raptor have limited ammo. AFAIK, this makes the Lazyhorn Warp Projector the only DA PD weapon without limited ammo. I haven't had the chance to test out the changes so its only theory crafting, but wouldn't this make DA uniquely weaker against sustained missile spam? It seems counter intuitive that the faction specialized in missile spam and fighters would be weak against constant missiles.

I might not like the Frost wing's change but I agree that they were necessary, frost wings along with zephyrs were my go to for wiping out frigates and destroyers very quickly. Fragmentation can help keep them good against missiles as their interceptor role would say, though it hampers their anti-fighter capabilities and zephyrs become ever better in that regard for DA.

I'm assuming that the Opfer was given limited ammo to help balance its overpowering Storm Needler++ capabilities? This takes it away from being the weapon role of "more dakka" that it was envisioned to be it seems and make it more like the actual large version of the needler series.

Thanks for your time for reading (or responding to) this!

Does anyone have a general guide on which fighters from the mod are best for each role? I just go by the card description, but would like to hear other opinions.

These fighter observations are from what I remember in 0.8 barring the frost which was changed but I never got to look into and the Arbitrator Z which was added after I had stopped playing.

Spoiler
It should be noted that despite their built-in hullmod. DA wanzers, though generally tough otherwise, are exceedingly weak to EMP damage and will die rapidly if the enemy fields them in decent numbers like in Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering or if they field a decent amount of EMP fighters like High-tech might do. This is because if a fighter loses its engine and collides into anything they die immediately and EMP specializes in disabling weapons and engines. This nullifies the otherwise tougher DA fighters armor and hull strength. Bonus points too if the offending EMP user has Advanced Countermeasures 3 or the enemy fighters have Wing Commander 3. This observation came about when seeing my Wanzer focused strategy break down and be stopped by EMP heavy fleets.

  • Arbitrator: Arbitrators are decent for what they are. Although they are classified as interceptors, their speed actually makes them inaccurate against missiles and fighters but when combined with their range makes them great for hunting down lone frigate flankers and a few wings can go for lone destroyers as well. Their artassaults combined with fighters generally getting around shields allows them to get away with this, though the booster "attack" generally misses these targets it can be used as an impromptu bombing run on something bigger though generally ineffective.


  • Arbitrator Z: I can't say anything on these as they were created since I had stopped playing in 0.8. As I haven't yet had the chance to play 0.9 any length of time I can only theorize. On the one hand this gives DA a much needed second bomber, and they seem to be closer to Khopesh or Perditions in vanilla by using unguided heavy rockets.


  • Frost: Again, I haven't been able to test them out since their nerf so grain of salt and all. Back in 0.8 they were extremely efficient wanzers and nearly outperformed the others in many aspects. They were not the best at, but very good at tackling missiles, fighters, frigates, and destroyers at a steal of only 8 OP and 20 second refit time. Cheapest for DA wanzers which are typically major OP/refit time hogs. Now with frag damage shotgun (and the occasional HE sword) they may still perform against missiles, but will have more trouble fighting against fighters, frigates, and destroyers depending on its frag damage output. At this point you wouldn't be wrong with replacing them outright with the zephyr wings who, although they deal soft flux, were better at crushing fighters in 0.8 and good enough with their system and guns to handle frigates unless you really need anti-missile fighters as zephyrs use limited burchel PD.


  • Strife: This one I'm not really sure what to do with. Its supposed to be a good finisher because its system allows it to output a lot of frag damage, but armor left over in hull just about nullifies rapid fire frag damage which this does though it does have a couple of thunderbolts at least. Otherwise, it doesn't shoot at missiles, tends to perform poorly against other fighters, and because there's only one in a wing makes them extremely weak as more fire will be focused on them and all their firepower is in a single fighter basket. If anyone can tell me a time that they've been able to have good success with these I would be interested to learn how they used them.


  • Warlust: These guys make really good escorts as they will stay by the sides of their escorting ships and provide a nice decent "flux free" 900 range energy and PD separate from the ship keeping it safe while it vents or overloads. Though in 0.8 AI have the terrible habit of having escort fighters escort you above all else regardless of the situation, leading to my carrier having 6 warlusts uselessly on it while I was on the back lines. They worked much better when I went into the wing_data.csv and changed their escort range to 0 so they were forced to stick with the ship they were put on (no other fighter changes were made in the file). Though if you want to be on the front line you could use their player escort priority behavior to have a bunch of extra floating ship guns following you around dealing "free" energy damage and providing IBIS PD.


  • Valiant: This wing is a bit of a shadow of its former 0.7 and early 0.8 self. Even so they still remain fairly reliable, just be aware that their weapons quickly overheat themselves and will lose their initial damage capabilities early in an engagement and weaken its defense as under the shield its really very fragile. A couple of wings still perform well enough against fighters, frigates, and destroyers. MM packs also helps defend them sometimes by being a weaker, non-guaranteed version of fighter flares. I have observed though that even with recall selected in the player controlled ship, valiants tend to go all in toward the enemy formation in speed mode over 1000 range sometimes 2000 range away and get themselves killed while you're trying to wait for fighter replenishment. As a result they tend to quickly drain the replacement rate of the carriers they're equipped on.


  • Raven: These guys are very good for brawling with larger cruiser and potentially capital ships in a sustained fight with support backing them up. The Glowtusk anti-armor with GraveHMC being very good DA brawling weapons equipped on a fighter makes it a dangerous opponent for shield loading and armor breaking. It is hampered by its incredibly expensive 14 OP cost, 30 second refit time, slow speed, and having only one fighter per wing. Otherwise, if you'd prefer a fighter to constantly harass a bigger ship with bigger guns rather than do bomber runs, Ravens perform well in that role.


  • Blizzaia: Your standard fighter bombers. They do carry a large amount of ordinance with Plovers and Banish with two Blizzaias can deal a respectable amount of damage to a bigger ship and are well worth including in a fleet. If you want to save 4 OP, and 10 seconds of refit time you can interchange these with Arbitrator Zs which only have the plover, but add another fighter to the wing. Though Plovers are HE while Banish are a lot of energy which means you lose out on anti-shield potential that way.


  • Zephyr: These are very excellent craft after their change to give them two in a wing. Since they're beam focused, they devastate enemy fighter wings and in my testings were the only DA wing that didn't get completely wiped out by four EMP fighter wings and were even able to fight against them if they didn't have any support. Along with their strong anti-fighter properties, two wings can handle most enemy frigates if you get Wing commander skill for increased speed so that they can keep up with them and even destroyers so long as they get around shields. Though since they rely on mini-burchel their anti-missile is decent but enough will get through their defenses.

Please let me know if you would like any clarification with any of these and I can try to respond when I'm able to. Thanks!
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #864 on: January 13, 2019, 12:47:35 AM »

Quote
Starting off, what was the primary reason behind the dampened mounts changes? I understand that they're because it's now a learnable and equipable hullmod, but originally it was made to help counteract the range disadvantage that the Maelstrom and Pandemonium had due their length and the large weapons at the back end. Now though, because dampened mounts is built in for them it feels like they're getting heavy nerfs of more fragile weapons and a straight damage loss of 20% from the lower fire rate to make up for the hullmod being usable with any ship which feels a little bad I guess to read the description of a built-in hullmod for a capital ship you just got and see its full of disadvantages to the ship and you can't get rid of it.

So in itself the change was required due to the fact that you can learn the hullmod indeed, and the reason I kept it built in in the caps is that, well they kind of needed a nerf. Maelstrom in particular were alway _really_ good already, and with the changes to the IBIS they got even better. And with the lower flux coming from the reduction in firerate, it also fixes their tendency to run too hot, so you can compensate the lower firerate with more weapons if you so desire. It is a trade-off.

Quote
While it is nice to see that the IBIS got a hefty flux/dam buff to make it usable in comparison I'm unsure as to the change to make the IBIS and Raptor have limited ammo. AFAIK, this makes the Lazyhorn Warp Projector the only DA PD weapon without limited ammo. I haven't had the chance to test out the changes so its only theory crafting, but wouldn't this make DA uniquely weaker against sustained missile spam? It seems counter intuitive that the faction specialized in missile spam and fighters would be weak against constant missiles.

You should test it. They now are similar to the ex-Scy autonailers combined with the IBIS very efficient spray pattern. Overall VERY good pd and finally unique enough compared to the Vulcan.

Quote
I'm assuming that the Opfer was given limited ammo to help balance its overpowering Storm Needler++ capabilities? This takes it away from being the weapon role of "more dakka" that it was envisioned to be it seems and make it more like the actual large version of the needler series.

Without limited ammo, the weapon made shields irrelevant even at long range. Fights where just about "who has the largest flux capacity". This impose some much needed time to vent, retaliate or disengage.
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Starareo

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #865 on: January 13, 2019, 09:15:04 AM »

Thanks for the list, exactly what I was looking for!
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SapphireSage

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #866 on: January 14, 2019, 10:08:30 AM »

Quote from: Tartiflette
So in itself the change was required due to the fact that you can learn the hullmod indeed, and the reason I kept it built in in the caps is that, well they kind of needed a nerf. Maelstrom in particular were always _really_ good already, and with the changes to the IBIS they got even better. And with the lower flux coming from the reduction in firerate, it also fixes their tendency to run too hot, so you can compensate the lower firerate with more weapons if you so desire. It is a trade-off.

Hmm, okay I can see where you're coming from and I will agree that the Maelstrom is definitely a very strong capital, mainly for its speed and versatility. This change can help the maelstrom run less hot, but I've always considered the Pandemonium as a really heavy alpha striker since its flux can't hope to compete against its possible weaponry so I don't know if it'd affect its offensive ability too much.

Quote from: Tartiflette
You should test it. They now are similar to the ex-Scy autonailers combined with the IBIS very efficient spray pattern. Overall VERY good pd and finally unique enough compared to the Vulcan.

Unfortunately, I haven't yet had a minute to myself for it lately, but you can be assured that when I do I'll be sure to go through the changes and test them all out both in sim and battle.

Quote from: Tartiflette
Without limited ammo, the weapon made shields irrelevant even at long range. Fights where just about "who has the largest flux capacity". This impose some much needed time to vent, retaliate or disengage.

Hmm, yeah I can see that. IIRC it had about a 1:1 flux/dam ratio as a kinetic weapon which would disadvantage most opponents at the range it could reach. On the bright side it couldn't overload an enemy for very long nor be strong on hull but being able to easily overload or high flux an enemy that simply has lower flux stats isn't a good trait on either end of player/AI.

Thanks for responding!
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voltaxic_rift

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #867 on: January 21, 2019, 07:43:40 PM »

just one problem as a new player---------------is the nerf too much for dampened mounts?


it increase 200 range to projectle weapon but reduce 20% fire rate and 50% weapon HP.
the debuff of similar  unit for enegy weapon is just 15% track speed

I just think it's unfair,  maybe 50% reduce weapon HP should be removed.
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #868 on: January 21, 2019, 08:51:43 PM »

the debuff of similar  unit for enegy weapon is just 15% track speed
Advanced Optics is beam weapons only, not all energy weapons, which makes it much, much weaker than Dampened Mount.  Dampened Mount (...for some reason the mod name is singular?) is much more situational now - but at least for me, it's the increased OP cost that makes it so more than the reduced fire rate.  And 'situational' is about where a good hull mod should be - sometimes it's worth using; sometimes it's not.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

FreedomFighter

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Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.02 (2019/01/05)
« Reply #869 on: January 22, 2019, 12:11:15 AM »

just one problem as a new player---------------is the nerf too much for dampened mounts?


it increase 200 range to projectle weapon but reduce 20% fire rate and 50% weapon HP.
the debuff of similar  unit for enegy weapon is just 15% track speed

I just think it's unfair,  maybe 50% reduce weapon HP should be removed.

If you can outrange the enemy and he is in no way of hitting you back then those penalties mean nothing. Oh, and ITU pretty much mandatory so you get more out of this.
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