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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)  (Read 443602 times)

Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #540 on: May 14, 2017, 08:53:10 AM »

Maybe, but even in that case I'd argue criticize the product but not the author. Negative judgements on people rarely help with productivity anyway. On the other hand, you could also try suggesting well thought out improvements to help.
Ultimately a mod is a volunteer act and I think Diable Avionics has been doing a great service in that manner.
If you are talking about the "No Fun Tarti" nickname, it is just a joke and he knows it
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #541 on: May 14, 2017, 08:58:13 AM »

And you are the only one to find it funny. Also he is talking about the
Quote
lazy
part of your "criticism".
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arwan

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #542 on: May 14, 2017, 09:21:49 AM »

i have seen this freighter once in game. will say it was quite the eye catcher, and ultimately i did not buy it because i was not in the market for that kind of ship at the moment.

that being said at the time i also did not compare the stats between the two but instead only read its description and i, in my head anyway, came to the conclusion that it was probably the same ship with a different skin from the description.

never thought that it brought the mod down in quality in anyway. actually was kind of neat to see such a thing was put in the mod.

that being said, since there is a arguably significant difference between them, would it be possible to change the description to hint at the fact that it has been refitted from a military ship to a civilian craft and as such its systems are weaker than the military variant.
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Alex
You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

Tartiflette

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #543 on: May 14, 2017, 09:31:24 AM »

It's the opposite: It is a civilian ship that got a few more weapon mounts bolted on the hull to prey on freighters. The description mention that pretty clearly:

While degraded by cycles of bad maintenance and combat repairs, it is obvious to the keen observer that this non-standard hull wasn't modified after the production, but is in fact a distinct model. For a long time the Diable Corporation has been secretly arming pirates with these altered ships, but nowadays it won't even bother hiding that fact and sells them proper military craft directly. As such, those pirate themed hulls are somewhat a rare sight.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #544 on: May 14, 2017, 09:49:28 AM »

Also he is talking about the
Quote
lazy
part of your "criticism".
It is though! To me at least it looks like it came out of .65 mod revival attempt. IE the bare minimum amount of work to get it in game and shut up the people asking for a milspec version.
And let's not forget the lore stating that it is sold as a PROPER military craft despite it being identical to the civilian version, minus a few nerfs

Oh and one other note, this time on the regular Rime: It looks like the outer edges could use some AA? They are pretty jagged compared to the Rime P
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arwan

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #545 on: May 14, 2017, 09:57:18 AM »

It's the opposite: It is a civilian ship that got a few more weapon mounts bolted on the hull to prey on freighters. The description mention that pretty clearly:

While degraded by cycles of bad maintenance and combat repairs, it is obvious to the keen observer that this non-standard hull wasn't modified after the production, but is in fact a distinct model. For a long time the Diable Corporation has been secretly arming pirates with these altered ships, but nowadays it won't even bother hiding that fact and sells them proper military craft directly. As such, those pirate themed hulls are somewhat a rare sight.


that description is messing with my head more and more as i read it. seems like it has a few contradictions.

non standard hull > distinct model > altered ships > proper military craft.

as i read that my brain goes from modified / refit hull to, brand new designed this way hull to, again a ship that was redesigned after production to, a ship that was designed from the get go to be military spec.

the over all of the description seems alright, but the way it flows with these points makes my brain go all over the place on what it is supposed to be really. either a refit civilian hull, to a purpose built from scratch pirate hull, to a built from scratch military hull, and things in between.
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Alex
You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

arwan

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #546 on: May 14, 2017, 10:05:34 AM »

was thinking of how i would describe this ship from the info in your post.

how about something along the lines of.

while degraded by cycles of bad maintenance and repair, this class of civilian freighter has been refit with a few more weapon mounts by the Diable Corporation to act as a pirate vessel in Hegemony space. while once fully denounced by the Diable as not true, they no longer refute the fact that they purpose built these ships for piracy since they stopped the refit program many cycles ago. making this class of ship a rather rare sight now.

not trying to step on your toes as it were, just wanting to propose a description, that i believe is a little more clear i hope.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 10:10:30 AM by arwan »
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Alex
You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #547 on: May 14, 2017, 10:17:09 AM »

"While degraded by cycles of bad maintenance and combat repairs, this hull lacks any of the indications of aftermarket modification that would be visible to a keen observer. It was, in fact, designed and manufactured like this. The Diable Corporation used to arm pirates with these ships in order to maintain an illusion of plausible deniability, but has dispensed with that and nowadays simply sells pirates proper military craft. As such, these hulls are no longer manufactured, and are a rare sight."
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 10:41:49 AM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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Drokkath

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #548 on: May 14, 2017, 11:15:17 AM »

I like Diable weaponry and the way the ships feel and work. Only thing that sucks is purely my own problem of actually trying to keep a fleet running and trying to land hits and survive in combat, I'm just not cut out for playing normally and with weapon ranges being seemingly nerfed a tad in general in .8 isn't also helping me either as it requires me to haul me ship's arse even closer. A shame but, eh, thankfully there's the easy mode difficulty in the game so when I feel like giving my own Diable fleet another try I can start off from there with a new character.

Earlier today I tired a restored/de-debuffed pirate-paint-job Enforcer in a battle simulation and it had my mandatory 95% of all hullmods installed, I was rather baffled at how far the default chaingun ranges are in normal mode now, might as well just put some shotgun-boomstick-somethings and a massive ramming fore (like Ramming Frigate from Homeworld: Cataclysm) instead of the five chainguns and yet I'd still get the flux levels up fast on my ship and thus get blown to bits faster than I can react and oh dear, don't get me started about how slow my reaction time naturally is. So yeah, constant retreating and ordering other ships to do something I wanna do just kills my fun. Hence why I only fly one super-ship with a TARDIS-esque storage units.

Sorry, I just feel rather irritated after wasting my time trying to get through a battle in the game. Had to re-active the usual Exterminatus sub-routines and obliterate the hostiles with an ancient and very powerful redacted doomsday cruiser out of Tri-Tachyon's version of Hell/Hades.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 11:56:31 AM by Drokkath »
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Hussar

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #549 on: May 14, 2017, 12:22:56 PM »

It's the opposite: It is a civilian ship that got a few more weapon mounts bolted on the hull to prey on freighters. The description mention that pretty clearly:

While degraded by cycles of bad maintenance and combat repairs, it is obvious to the keen observer that this non-standard hull wasn't modified after the production, but is in fact a distinct model. For a long time the Diable Corporation has been secretly arming pirates with these altered ships, but nowadays it won't even bother hiding that fact and sells them proper military craft directly. As such, those pirate themed hulls are somewhat a rare sight.


This however doesn't correspond with in game "stats" then. The OP pool is the same as for the standard Rime, and if it had been a distinct production model, then it should have at least 20 OP points more to cover up for 2 additional medium mounts. That though, Rime P would still be extremely weak even with those, but it would be at least able to play a role of a missile/support cruiser without getting literally double-crippled.

Being honest then, a pirate conversion after production would make more sense for how much under-powered and weak Rime P is (with or without 20 OP points, as I've tested it by adding those 20 more OP myself - Rime P is still really weak but at least usable - that's however my personal opinion). I still love it though, Rime is in general my favorite ship design in general. But I think Rime P would use at least 20 more OP to use nevertheless. The same applies to the pirate stratus more or less.

Both "P" are really unique find among pirates and it's just a bit of a let-down that they turn to be absolutely harmless. I love DA and DA's ships, and I simply think that if both types are sacrificing so much of C/F-space then they should get relevant OP to cover up for the gained mounts. Such ships with DA's weapons (one of the versions) would be lovely ships to face-off against, for sure way more of a challange than regular pirates or current versions that suffer from lack of OP.

The ships though are super rare (saw only one pirate stratus in space, saw way more of stratuses and rime's on black markets so far) so it's not much of a problem... Unless someone would like to try do a "pirate" playthrough...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 12:27:52 PM by Hussar »
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Euripides

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #550 on: May 14, 2017, 08:17:15 PM »

I for one don't want the cargo freighter magically becoming a tier 1 battlecruiser just because some junkrats ripped a few cargo containers out and threw on a few more guns. It's a freighter, not a ship of the line. It shouldn't even be in combat to begin with.
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Hussar

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #551 on: May 14, 2017, 11:13:25 PM »

It is not however a junkrats handiwork. And that's where lies the problem.

Not to mention that even with 20 OP more each, both rime and stratus (P) gonna be still really weak.

Both are my points. It doesn't make any sense why those ships have been produced by DA itself and sold as such.


(Edit: Seems like someone's doesn't read up (nor understand) what has been written so not even gonna bother.)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 07:17:26 AM by Hussar »
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SaltyDog

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #552 on: May 15, 2017, 07:07:38 AM »

It doesn't make any sense why those ships have been produced by DA itself and sold as such.

Those ships are only supposed to be sold to pirates, nothing more and nothing less. Cheap ships to be sold to cash strapped pirates, so they can bolster their ranks with.
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dk1332

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #553 on: May 15, 2017, 09:32:08 AM »

Those ships are only supposed to be sold to pirates, nothing more and nothing less. Cheap ships to be sold to cash strapped pirates, so they can bolster their ranks with.


Oddly enough, pirates use those ships to raid independent merchant fleets that are trading with DA.  :D
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SaltyDog

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Re: [0.8a] Diable Avionics 1.82 (08/05/2017)
« Reply #554 on: May 15, 2017, 10:59:24 AM »

Oddly enough, pirates use those ships to raid independent merchant fleets that are trading with DA.  :D
Guess we know what happens when you make deals with pirates.
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