Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 59 60 [61] 62 63 ... 83

Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.53 RC1 (2020/07/31)  (Read 590589 times)

lethargie

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.03 (2019/02/19)
« Reply #900 on: May 10, 2019, 10:11:09 AM »

You can mount 2 uhlan's on a odyssey. Put some tac laser to keep the pressure and you can have some fun.
Logged

eidolad

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.03 (2019/02/19)
« Reply #901 on: May 10, 2019, 04:14:32 PM »

nice will have to check out how those two larges on the Odyssey are able to put rounds on target (would prefer both rounds landing at the same time)
Logged

Euripides

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.03 (2019/02/19)
« Reply #902 on: May 14, 2019, 09:55:09 AM »

Quote
144450 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.system.do.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.FighterAI.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

This is a CTD error that occurs consistently and repeatably in a fight with a diable avionics fleet in 0.9.1

I am not sure if this information is helpful, but I figure it's better to post it than not to.
Logged

Gear

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.0a] Diable Avionics 2.03 (2019/02/19)
« Reply #903 on: May 14, 2019, 11:35:58 AM »


This is a CTD error that occurs consistently and repeatably in a fight with a diable avionics fleet in 0.9.1

I am not sure if this information is helpful, but I figure it's better to post it than not to.
This mod hasn't been updated yet for 9.1
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Toss a coin to your Modder, O' valley of plenty
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #904 on: May 14, 2019, 12:24:51 PM »

Actually it is 8)


0.9.1a update, with some minor adjustments too. Download available in the original post

Changelog:
Spoiler

2.04

BALANCING:
 - Ship prices raised to 0.9.1 levels.

BUGFIXES/IMPROVEMENTS:
 - Uhlan Artillery shots now pass through missiles.
 - Derecho system visual feedback now rendering below ships.
 - Versant rear panels now properly rendered below the arms.
 - Added trails to Uhlan shots, Warlust, Valiant and Versant weapons.
 - Reworked fleets composition for a tougher challenge.

[close]
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 01:11:16 PM by Tartiflette »
Logged
 

eidolad

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #905 on: May 14, 2019, 05:45:12 PM »

"
- Uhlan Artillery shots now pass through missiles.
- Reworked fleets composition for a tougher challenge.
"

Perhaps today IS a good day to die!   Indeed I must restart new nex game with the update!
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Toss a coin to your Modder, O' valley of plenty
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #906 on: May 15, 2019, 12:15:09 AM »

All these changes will apply to existing saves I believe.
Logged
 

eidolad

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #907 on: May 15, 2019, 04:46:40 PM »

The problem is that I suffer from restart-itis, especially when new core StarSector versions roll in...or maybe I'm just addicted to the first half of the sandbox career!

Edit:  Now playing on the 0.9.1.a core version...sheesh "High maintenance" is for me the most dreaded d-mod ever.  Especially: having it built in to the Pandemonium pretty much rules out fielding one...which makes me and the Valiant Wanzer squadrons that would like to deploy from me very sad.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 08:52:53 AM by eidolad »
Logged

eidolad

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #908 on: May 20, 2019, 05:18:28 PM »

Sorry for double post, but wanted to make sure...is this correct:   A Pandemonium dreadnaught...costs 120 supplies/month?

(it has the built-in "High Maintenance" mod...mega yikes)

I do see that it has, omg, 435 OP points to spend...vs. 370 OP on the Paragon.  I have just colonized my first colony and all my random-map Diable military markets have yet to show a Panda with less then three d-mods, so I haven't fielded one yet.  That maintenance cost though...
_________

In other news, I must say that the Maelstrom battlecruiser with Uhlan Siege Laser is quite a fine ship to pilot...so long as one has some help with pesky flankers that are hard to hit with Uhlan shots...or decide to slip in a missile behind the shields.

Logged

Euripides

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #909 on: May 21, 2019, 03:13:13 PM »

I am not understanding the use-case of the glowtusk weapon. From experience with it so far, it feels too short range for what it offers. I think if it were between 800 - 1250 su range to be used in conjunction with Recson V's it would have a better place for the Vapors and Hayle's that DA use.

But perhaps I am not fully understanding what the weapon does or is meant for. In my eyes it's best as either a hammer after the Recson strips shields and the spacecrat approaches the target, or while the spacecraft disengages and wants some last hits while the opponent vents and before it can get shields back up. However when I try to use it right now, my craft get too aggressive, waste the flux hitting shields with it, and over-expose/kill themselves.

Right now I find that the best weapon combination on the Vapor for example is a Recson V + Phase Lance with integrated targeting. The AI will usually skirmish and strip shields with the Recson V and then, tentatively (certainly not as aggressively as it should but it may be a flux issue) try to engage with the phase lance. Integrated targeting mostly helps the AI use the phase lance more reliably, and the high alpha-strike nature of the phase lance helps ensure the vapor doesn't over-extend, unlike what I've seen with the glowtusk.

One of my favourite DA weapon designs, but I never use it because as it is right now it feels very underwhelming to me.
Logged

SapphireSage

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #910 on: May 21, 2019, 05:53:50 PM »

Re: Glowtusk

The Glowtusk is a high damage HE weapon that fires every 4 seconds, like the SRAB. The Glowtusk however pairs much better with the Grave HMC, which has a similar range, then the Recson, which pairs better with the SRAB.

The SRAB may not seem great, since its a missile-like weapon that can get shot down for a decently high flux cost, but keep in mind that DA has many ships that can throw out micro missiles inherently. Plus, the SRAB will out range the Recsons for long range pressure and support.

Meanwhile, the Glowtusk and the Grave are both similar ranges, but the Grave does more damage over a shorter amount of time and the Glowtusk is more flux efficient and reliable to hit with.

Vapors and Hayles can both poke safely with Recsons, but since they and the Haze have mobility systems and Advanced Avionics Hullmod (increases acceleration over time) They would be well suited to using the lower range and more devastating Grave and Glowtusk combo as well. While the Daze can either poke long range with Recson/SRABs or try going with shorter range Grave/Glowtusk as it can hit even harder with the Flux Redirection system.
Logged

Euripides

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #911 on: May 23, 2019, 03:22:50 PM »

I've attempted to use the glowtusk in combination with the HMC, here is what I've seen happening with Vapors:

- Very skittish, often refusing to get close enough to use either weapon even on isolated/weak targets (in particular I notice that when the enemy ship vents, the AI always backs off instead of pressing the attack), resulting in less offensive shield pressure than what the longer range recson V results in
- When they do get close enough, they tap and go without dealing much, if any damage
- The Glowtusk is used constantly against shields AND enemy ships are extremely good at raising shields at just the right time to deflect glowtusk shots
- The rare times the glowtusk hits armor/hull it's because the shield wasn't raised quickly enough or didn't manage to cover the area the glowtusk was aimed at, rather than because the AI can't afford to raise the shields due to high flux/disabled
- When the glowtusk does hit armor/hull it does good damage, but not amazing, and not good enough in contrast to how often it's blocked by shields or never fired by the skittish AI
- Probably one of the biggest problems: The glowtusk is extremely inaccurate when used by the AI and misses easily 50% of the shots fired due to travel time and possibly some sort of inertia inheritance from the vapors - they just completely whiff by entire ship-lengths.

I don't know if anything can (or should) be changed with the AI behaviour itself, but I will say that there's a few things a phase lance has as an advantage over a glowtusk:
- Similar range, effectively equivalent in practice
- Hits more reliably (only whiffs a lot when the flicker core is engaged mid-shot)
- Works well against shields/armor/hull
- AI doesn't like to raise shields to deflect phase lance shots, resulting in more hits on armor/hull and faster kills
- Higher alpha damage + high flux works better on the vapor because it can flicker core to safety and usually only spends a few seconds near any target regardless of its present flux level anyways

So with a Recson V + Phase Lance, what the Vapors do is skirmish at range, hitting with the Recson V on shields, and then move in close for a phase lance shot, which the opposing AI usually doesn't try to block with its shield, resulting in a lot of damage to the armor/hull (and very often an almost immediate kill on most other frigates).

While with an HMC + Glowtusk, the vapor flickers around tentatively out of range a lot doing nothing, then when it does move in, it exposes itself for much longer trying to whittle the shields down with the HMC, and either fires the glowtusk at the shields - usually maxing out its flux and forcing a disengagement - or simply doesn't fire the glowtusk at all and disengages. Half the time the glowtusk is fired it just misses completely. Without pressure from something else, it takes luck for this combo to actually kill anything.

I believe, at the very least, that the glowtusk needs a large projectile velocity buff - it is missing or being deflected by shields too often to rely on. An AI buff to get it using the glowtusk more effectively would be very nice: Less shooting at shields, and more flanking attemps (and being a little more aggressive in general, like engaging venting ships with a quick cheap shot instead of letting them go)

---

I also tried using the Recson V + SRAB and that was just awful. The SRAB rarely makes it through point defenses and lacks the damage/flux stats to mitigate this weakness. Yes, you can saturate PD with micromissiles if that's what you like, but now you sacrifice higher quality missiles for PD saturation... just to get a very average gun to hit in the first place.

Or you could just swap out the average SRAB for an average anything-similar and enjoy dealing damage without worrying about PD at all and being free to use whatever missiles or torpedoes you prefer.

DA weapons feel very 'balanced' (or perhaps more aptly - 'overtuned'), but to the point that it's actually a detriment: Without extremely optimized loadouts most DA stuff just isn't competitive. You have very tight fitting options, not much flux to work with, and very average (or worse) survivability. The only good thing about the DA lineup is the huge maneuverability advantage they have with flicker cores (actually not that great on the middling destroyer/cruiser hulls as they're too slow/don't travel far enough for the flicker cores to help much), and the large number of flight decks (That I unironically find better filled with non-wanzers in spite of the wanzer bonus). In general as much as I like trying to use DA weapons on DA ships, it's usually more effective to use the common pool weapons instead.

Biggest weaknesses of DA ships are EMP weapons (absolutely annihilates the wanzers) in conjunction with mass strike craft that defeat the maneuverability advantage of the ships. Most DA ships have very weak PD options/mounts and get overwhelmed without their own strikecraft cover.

The best DA weapons in my experience have been the Recson V, Burchdel laser (ONLY if you have a huge amount of spare flux and it's better as an offensive anti-ship weapon than as point defense!), and Uhlan Siege gun. The worst have been Glowtusks, the EMP laser I can't remember the name of, and IBIS (you need like 5 IBIS clumped together to do ANYTHING, it's basically semi-usable on the group of 6 small mounts on the Maelstrom and nowhere else. The IBIS could cost 0 ordnance and I still wouldn't use it).

As an aside, is there somewhere I can these starsector tournaments? I'm willing to accept that I've just been using everything the wrong way and would love to see how things are working in more competitive environments.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 05:31:26 PM by Euripides »
Logged

eidolad

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 150
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #912 on: May 23, 2019, 06:47:22 PM »

1.  It's the endless flurries of harassment missiles that I think is such a nice feature of DA ships.  These things really bother AI pilots.  Especially if one seeds in heavy missiles in there with them or those evil Salamanders.


2. Oh the flicker core:

a) re-facing ability of a quick flicker-core jump to reorient shields when a flanker comes to visit
b) the ability to micro-jump out of range and vent flux

Would like the AI to not tend to use up their flicker jumps prior to reaching engagement range...


3. Wanzers have for the most part outlasted every enemy fighter composition I've seen yet...even the [REDACTED] four fleet "raid" against me and my colony's battlestation.  Oh my, the blue-grade wave of fighters that flew over and over into our squadrons...and didn't fly back out again.  High cost Wanzers are so...tanky...we're talking frigate sized hulls launched from a carrier.  In groups of three.

Wanzers better, given their huge cost. 


4. EMP is indeed my fave support system against fighters of any kind.  Especially in my frigates, later in the "career" of a game instance.  I haven't observed enough of EMP against my own Wanzers...but I would think that the Wanzer shields would help somewhat...


5. The State Support Beam gets a place on my Daze cruisers whenever I have enough of this weapon for a decent concentration of fire with range extender hull mods, and flux budget.  Such a nice suppression/pressure setup.


6.  I am looking forward to taking the Admiral's chair on the opposing force against DA fleets though...surely the AI wouldn't be clever enough to set up a Haze with dual Mauler, dual HVD.  Surely not...I hope.
Logged

SapphireSage

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #913 on: May 24, 2019, 07:30:14 PM »

First off, Tartiflette helpfully archived all the videos from the most recent tourney in this topic.

Hmm, I can't personally say much with respect to Vapors since I generally fit all vapors with dual Trifire Scatter guns, but I do know that Hayles and especially Hazes/Dazes with Grave HMC and Glowtusk can be very dangerous to ships up close. They won't be able to stack and cover as easily as Recsons and especially SRABs but any ship with that combo will generally get an advantage in a closer ranged brawl. I understand that doesn't sound appetizing but it can mean a lot especially if SO gets involved as DA doesn't have very many other options with regards to that. I just remembered too that Trifires are another option to pair with Recsons, they're not too great against armor but they can chip away at it.

Addendum, AI can also be skittish against enemies that outrange them. Usually I set all ships in my fleet to Aggressive (Officers and Doctrine) when playing DA and didn't generally have a problem with them not using Glowtusk/Grave but rather an issue with them fluxing themselves out with IBIS(which was surprisingly lethal to hull post min-armor change but prior to its current clip mechanic)

I do know that SRABs are awful with Vapors since they only barely have the flux to fire once. With regards to having to use MMs, I stated earlier that there are ships with built-in MMs. Storm on the low end, then Dazes, and Maelstroms have the most built-in MMs. In my experience when I used the SRABs with the Maelstrom it had pretty good odds of landing the hits where they mattered, but I'm sure its helped by the MM array, Fleet-wide MMs, and in-flight wanzers. Keep in mind too that a SRAB is a missile in all ways but slot and ammo only. And if I'm right Tartiflette did add the passthrough property to it as well which makes it the perfect support weapon as, like missiles, it'll pass through all allied ships so a Storm can sit on the back line behind Dazes or such and safely add support from 1200 + ITU range.

I agree that Wanzers especially but DA as a whole is crippled by EMP. As someone that flew an II Matriarch (7 flight decks and various fighter buffs system) the wanzers were stopped cold by relatively few EMP weapons. It was unable to do anything against the 0.8 SIM Cathedral (Due to 2 Xyphos and 2 Claw all of which used Ion in some form or other) and were completely hard countered by Dassault and its large pool of EMP weaponry. This, plus the fact that DA ships never have 360 shields means that they're vulnerable to fighters with EMP and easily destroyed this way. I recommend DME Harridans if you have them, otherwise vanilla thunders or Xyphos ought to be fine.

I can agree that Wanzers can be overly... niche. The idea is that they're meant to be strong early combat but wane off while DA ships get Advanced Avionics going for the end of combat. In practice though, you're better off using other faction/vanilla fighters just because they'll do better at keeping your replacement rates up. Certain wanzers, like Zephyrs and Ravens, can do a very good job and are almost unbeatable at what they do, but others like Strife are so niche and weak feeling that I struggle to find a use for them anywhere. Zephyrs are really good btw, you should try some of them as 4 Glaux Lance Repeaters will destroy so many fighters with barely any effort and their special ability can handle frigates with 1 wing and many destroyers with 2.

I can't say with regards to the Nocturne since I've never used it, but 4 IBIS, before the new clip size change, on a Haze with Flux Redirection was able to handle the harpoon target practice exercise I like to use to test ships point defense with at least an 80% chance to not let any missiles hit the shield, which is a surprisingly hard goal to achieve without devoting a crazy amount of weapons to PD. I think I did try testing it out a little bit and it wasn't able to perform nearly as well due to the new clip size, but that might be to also help limit how violently it was able to whittle down ship's hull.

3) and 4) Wanzers, especially Zephyrs, will indeed triumph against any other fighter type except those with EMP which will destroy most wanzers effortlessly. Only Valiant class wanzers have shields, but as they tend to flux out from their own weapons their shield's protective qualities remain dubious. Maybe Combat Analytics and experimentation could shed light on that. Most wanzers also have Resistant Flux Conduits which helps slightly but will only delay the inevitable. As far as I've observed, this is chiefly due to fighters that have lost engines colliding with anything instantly dying, which works around the wanzers typically very tanky stats.
Logged

lethargie

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #914 on: May 25, 2019, 05:39:03 AM »

Most faction have weakness of a shape or another. Rather than trying tout say all thing da are great i would point out the Strength of da.

Maelstrom. One of the most powerfull capital hull for its Wirth in deployement point. The flicker allow perfect turn rate ans you can have huge overlapping firepower.

Zéphyr wanzer. They are beautifull ans efficient. If your goal is to support your ship they are great.

Recson Weapons. Thèse thing got great range and range is Worth a lot.

The destroyer Carrier. Its very deployement point efficient.

Gust. Very good shape to fight Side by Side. Hybrid large on a cheap cruiser frame is good. Fighter on top is gold. As a player ship you can also abuse the system
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 59 60 [61] 62 63 ... 83