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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)  (Read 443810 times)

Troika

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2015, 04:45:46 PM »

Have you thought of using the moveable ship part system you used in SCY to try to give some of the Wanzers physical shields? Obviously that wouldn't work well for the transforming one, but I could easily see it being used on the others.

Unless, of course, I'm displaying my naivete by assuming they have hands...
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FlashFrozen

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2015, 05:25:00 PM »

Well I just had a playthrough saved by a desperate Stratus purchase. Are Frost Element drones supposed to be such an amazing fighter screen or did my Shepard pull all of the weight against that carrier group?

The Stratus is basically a clone of the mule with worse hull, armor, and shields that are front vs omni too ). To boost the defence though it does get 2 Frosts to deploy ( replacements sold seperately )

Have you thought of using the moveable ship part system you used in SCY to try to give some of the Wanzers physical shields? Obviously that wouldn't work well for the transforming one, but I could easily see it being used on the others.

Unless, of course, I'm displaying my naivete by assuming they have hands...

While a neat idea, working on the scale of fighters will most likely be pretty taxing ( more of them and kinda tiny ) but then again I haven't tried either lol.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2015, 08:57:45 PM »

Well I just had a playthrough saved by a desperate Stratus purchase. Are Frost Element drones supposed to be such an amazing fighter screen or did my Shepard pull all of the weight against that carrier group?

The Stratus is basically a clone of the mule with worse hull, armor, and shields that are front vs omni too ). To boost the defence though it does get 2 Frosts to deploy ( replacements sold seperately )
Yeah but with 4 small ballistics and a medium in it's forward arc it's noticeably more dangerous than the mule, feels like an actual COMBAT freighter that is somewhat hazardous to approach, and the Frosts are just icing on the cake.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2015, 09:09:05 PM »

So...can we expect SS+ compatibility for Diable in the near future?
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2015, 09:10:03 PM »

Every faction mod is compatible with SS+.

Will Diable get SS+ support though? Perhaps...
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2015, 11:46:20 PM »

Have you thought of using the moveable ship part system you used in SCY to try to give some of the Wanzers physical shields? Obviously that wouldn't work well for the transforming one, but I could easily see it being used on the others.
Given the CPU cost, the issues with UI (each part would have a targeting diamond on it) the message spam in the left corner each time one dies or spawn, and the sheer amount of work required (any part need almost as much work as a regular ship, and the host twice as much), I thing the result would be terrible. I also noticed some people don't read release posts and don't download the required libraries, so that means a lot less people playing the mod. And that's only on the technical side: what are the chances that a wanzer seriously engaged can survive even with an additional shield? I don't think it would change much from simply bumping up the health. It work in Scy because each parts add weapons that can be permanently disabled, and offers a constant defense. I don't think such system would be worth the effort on fighters.

Now I toyed with the idea of a transforming frigate that could or could not use twig parts... But I would have to talk to FlashFrozen about it ^^
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Troika

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2015, 11:08:37 AM »

Not sure why this happened, but in the latest patch of everything, the SCY system was moved and is now right on top of the Diable Avionics Forward Base.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2015, 11:23:30 AM »

Ooops, that's an oversight. Acheron avoids spawning on top of another system, but it doesn't check for stations... I will have to correct that. (and maybe add a console command to move it, in case it spawn way too far)
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AeusDeif

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2015, 01:19:47 PM »

Great mod, but how hard is it to edit the names on anything, like ship or equipment? One of the weapons is simply named 'State'... not sure if it's a bug or what.

I'd be glad to do it myself if I knew where to look.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2015, 02:37:32 PM »

Great mod, but how hard is it to edit the names on anything, like ship or equipment? One of the weapons is simply named 'State'... not sure if it's a bug or what.

I'd be glad to do it myself if I knew where to look.
I believe it's intentional.
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AeusDeif

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2015, 04:34:24 AM »

yeah, no offense, maybe I just don't understand it, but in any case, how would I go about tweaking it? even just adding the word 'beam' on the end so I know what it is
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2015, 09:08:44 AM »

So now that I'm far enough into this Nexerlin playthrough for Diable where I'm effectively *** away hundreds of thousands of credits on ships I gotta say, on the ship front everything seem to fall into a fairly nice place all on it's own, the dependence on missiles and fighters is inherently precarious but the Wanzers and micro missiles are mean enough to make it work in bulk. The ships themselves seem to tend to favor very excessive amounts of PD, mostly because any small hybrid mount on a Diable ship has to mount either a Recson S or PD weapon if you don't have a player or SS+ to introduce some foreign weapons. Speaking of the Recson it is frankly a pretty crazy weapon that very much makes up for how underwhelming I found most of the other Diable weapons, the Recson is probably one of the best kinetic weapons available to me...I can't imagine it not getting a nerf or rebalance honestly, though it does have the problem where it doesn't actually synergize all that well with it's HE counterpart the Grave HMG, one is a long range burst fire weapon and the other is a less long range sustained fire weapon, considering how Diable seem to love using medium hybrid mounts as their bread and butter I'd be very interested in a rebalance that makes the Recson and Grave match up more like the LAC and LAG in vanilla.

Which brings me to the other various weapons, the Burchels seemed very not worth it, they cost a relative lot of OP for a PD and didn't actually control incoming threats as well as I'd hoped, the IBIS was better but still felt like I was working with a mediocre system. The State was...strange, it seemed to do a well enough job once the shields were down but otherwise I didn't see any reason to choose it over a Recson considering it's immense flux generation. I didn't actually test the Glaux. The Uhlan and HTPC performed more or less the same but felt very different, the HTPC gave the Gust some very exciting teeth to it, while the Uhlan felt like the Grave, technically effective but a sub-par usage of an otherwise good slot, with it's slow and inaccurate projectiles feeling like they were more for show than anything, I went a few battles in my Pandemonium with my Uhlans totally disabled and I didn't notice any actual difference in my combat performance. Thunderbolts are a very neat concept but they felt wholly outclassed by micro missiles that had better tracking and only slightly less damage output, not to mention regenerating ammo, similarly the micro missiles were just so effective when massed that buying a ship with room for a plover or something instead of more micro missiles felt like a waste.

In terms of the individual ships I haven't quite flown all of them yet but generally speaking the frigates feel like a waste of supplies, Drafts are basically a Torch that takes longer to fall apart and has a fraction of the fire power, they're only really good early on as micro missile boats, and Vapors are just Hayles without a turret for a PD weapon and even worse flux capacity to maximize their suicidal tendencies. The Destroyers were fairly hit and miss, the Stratus is perhaps the best combat freighter a trader could ask for with it's frost element drones and surprisingly generous forward firepower, the Hayle was, as I said, a larger and slightly sturdier Vapor with all the same suicidal tendencies, the Calm was an excellent missile boat much like the Draft but often struggled with the flux just from it's own micro missiles, involving the shield or it's twin spinal guns led to a startlingly rapid overload, and the Fractus felt...well it didn't really feel like a Diable ship with only 1 medium missile hardpoint, what's more since Diable don't have any LRMs the Fractus didn't feel much like a carrier either, it would have a torpedo and no way to actually make it count, even alongside the Hayle and Calm it was pretty thoroughly meh. For cruisers the Gust and Haze were more impressive, the Haze I actually didn't use first-hand because the Gust just does so many good things for the Diable fleet that in hindsight I can't imagine how I could be expected to choose the Haze over the Gust, the Haze has some very impressive mounts but as I said I can't speak for it's agility or flux management so they may be as worthless as they are on the Vapor, the Gust on the other hand certain had some flux issues but they never felt dangerous or unmanageable, the Gust felt perfectly suited to both a light battle carrier and hunter-killer role, basically most of the things that make the Maelstrom worthwhile in a smaller package. Speaking of the Maelstrom I've not tested the Storm yet but the Maelstrom was quite satisfactory for most of the same reasons the Gust was, except it offered much more generous firepower for direct engagements, although it does have that awkward clump of small hybrid mounts in the center that is generally used for PD, which felt like a bit of a wasted opportunity to me so I used them for shard cannons, the Flicker Drive further offset many of the Gust's flux issues by making it very easy to withdraw and engage at the drop of a hat if you can control your momentum, but really I like to go big or go home so I simply had to test the Pandemonium and it is a very impressive ship, the Maelstrom's flicker drive with that much firepower is just a sight to behold...until you get stuck in with another large capital ship and realize you have poor flux management, moderately poor weapon mounts (again, the awkward blob of PD weapons, but this time there's two) compared to other capitals, a lot of inertia that severely complicates disengaging with the Flicker Drive, and somewhat like the Fractus it doesn't terribly feel like a Diable ship in combat, this time however because it's a giant warship not only with no flight decks but also with only 6 missile mounts on the whole thing.

I won't try to tell you how to balance anything (aside from the Recson...), just offering my 2 cents on the ships and weapons as I've been using them.
I may or may not also be a bit sleep deprived as I type this, so please excuse any gibberish or nonsense.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 09:11:27 AM by Surge »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2015, 09:49:21 AM »

That's quite a comprehensive feedback, thanks a lot!

   I pretty much agree on everything, and will probably spend some time this weekend fine tunning the rough balance spots. The gist of it might be: Does the faction need one weapon for every role, or should it use some vanilla ones? Given the marked art style I'd lean toward the former, but that imply adding at least five new weapons: small HE, medium long range HE; medium sort range KI, long range missiles and a large cheap alternative to the Uhlan.
   I also have to do something to replace the curent inverted CR mechanic.

   One note on the Pandemonium though. As per its description it's actually a fairly poor ship in real combat. Unless you got a lot of skills to improve it's weaknesses, it's way overpriced and quite underpowered. It scales very well with skills though and become an interesting option during very late game.
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Ghoti

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2015, 10:26:30 AM »

I think a slight issue here is that some diable weapons arn't to the same scale as vanilla, so using vanilla weapons throws the aesthetic of some of the ships out of wack. That's an unfortunate pileup issues of the design I think. The ships have close close weapon mounts for smaller weapons, so you cant make the weapons larger without adjusting the weapon mounts, which breaks the ship graphics.

Oh well, it's not a very big issue I guess.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.1a] Diable Avionics 1.2 - At War (04/12/2015)
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2015, 01:37:22 PM »

I think Diable can get by with only a medium mount counterpart to the micro missile and a small mount counterpart to the Grave. Though an alternative or two to the Uhlan sounds fabulous... Their offensive abilities seem to be pretty niche, they fill a more limited range of roles than other factions but do so very well.

Goodness all of my testing with the Pandemonium was with 10 in all combat skills, I can't imagine trying to fly it without those.

Edit: I think if you do go through with a new lineup of weapons I would recommend you design weapons around what Diable ships need instead of what would make a balanced weapon roster.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 01:56:22 PM by Surge »
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