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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)  (Read 453896 times)

Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #195 on: February 28, 2016, 03:04:03 AM »

Heh, maybe the quartermaster is REALLY lazy and just want someone to move his stuff around? ><
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JohnDoe

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #196 on: February 28, 2016, 06:28:45 AM »

It happens with Prism Freeport (the one from Nexerelin) as well. And very frequently.
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SierraTangoDelta

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #197 on: February 28, 2016, 09:48:33 AM »

Thanks, and don't forget to love FlashFrozen too ^^

I'm noticing a tendency for the hyperspace stations to put out delivery orders for goods already plentifully available at them, I think at one point all 3 department heads at Eclipse had placed separate orders for less than 50 supplies each, while the station itself had 300 for sale.
I don't know if this is an issue with the vanilla game but I'm noticing it happening slightly more at the hyperspace stations.
I don't think I can do anything about that. I'm not even sure it happens more with the Diable or rather with all mods. It could be one of the consequence of the economy system put on by Alex: Mods must be production neutral otherwise they skew the prices of some commodity. You can't for example make a miner faction that mostly produces ore and consume everything else, it has to produce everything or all the sector might get shortages and gluts.

Yeah I see that happen every single time I visit Prism freeport, it's prone to abuse since all you need is enough credits to purchase the product, and you can generally double or triple what you spent.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #198 on: February 28, 2016, 01:26:55 PM »

Jesus you wanna talk about abuse that aforementioned 100k contract was for like 10-20k worth of goods, the game just arbitrarily decided to give the contract a 72k fast delivery bonus.
Again though I'm not complaining, that payday got me a Versant.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #199 on: February 29, 2016, 01:31:28 AM »

So now that I've got a reasonably large Diable fleet going allow me to offer some thoughts on the ships I'm running or have run earlier.

Draft: Basically a Vigilance without the shield, it genuinely struggles to stay alive and/or contribute to a fight in any way unless you hold it's hand and attach it to a carrier or civilian ship, where it will still die as soon as that ship gets engaged by the enemy. Basically a trap for newer players looking to buy their first Diable ship.

Vapor: Hilarious, I'm not sure there's another word for it, this thing zips around the battlefield at terrifying speeds and can put out some impressive burst DPS with it's two medium mounts and the omni-shield offsets the lack of effective PD mounting points, not to mention it has a turn rate similar to most PD turrets so you could just give it a pair of IBIS and call it a day. I like it, doesn't last long in a fight but it's fun to have around in the early days, especially if you can get a good officer in it.

Versant: Oh so satisfying, the Harvest is beautiful in every way, the ship earns every bit of it's destroyer-like price tag with it's terrifying DPS capacity and ability to rapidly traverse the battlefield, though the delay on switching modes makes it feel clumsy at times. Very fun but very rare, I'm definitely a fan.

Derecho: So I really didn't expect much of this thing, I figured it had some token weapons for self defense and a token missile rack for token fleet support, it's armament being purely a formality in light of it's ECM utility, but the large hybrid slot allows it to run with some very useful weapons and makes it something of an artillery platform in battle, with mine running an Uhlan it keeps chiming into engagements just to burst open a cruiser after it overloads. It's fun when it decides to contribute, but mine seems content to simply watch most engagements, though I suspect this to be more the fault of the Uhlan than the Derecho, I definitely like it even if I can't figure out what ECM bonuses it's offering me.

Hayle: On paper this is the logical place to take the Vapor, make it bigger, give it missiles, ta-daaaaa. In practice I find it works functionally similar to a medusa, albeit with less PD, the loss of the Vapor's omni-shield makes salamanders a big issue and the flicker core offers less mobility than the evasive maneuver, but it matches up well with what your average Diable fleet wants to do, spam missiles and run down prey. I didn't particularly enjoy flying it but that's my own hatred of managing large missile racks more than anything, I liked the results it gave me though and I would definitely continue to run them as a mainstay destroyer.

Calm: I remember writing this off as a POS, though I'm finding it pleasantly effective as a fire support vessel now. It's kind of in a similar boat with the Draft where it can't comfortably use any vanilla missiles since the ship seems to be conceptually designed around having at least 4 MMLs, but I suppose you could run a varied mix of vanilla missiles on it if you didn't mind the loss of combat longevity. I found myself confused on how to use it's spinal slots, it seemed like a great place for a Recson/Grave wombo combo but I never caught it actually using that effectively, though I seemed to get some decent mileage out of a double State configuration. I definitely like it, the Omni-shield and tendency to hang back makes it feel like it has a good chance to survive most engagements, and 8 MMLs cannot be discounted as an asset.

Stratus: Have I mentioned lately how much I love this thing? I just simply love it. The Stratus is everything the Mule should have been, it's a very feasible option for frigate based bounty hunters looking for a loot hauler that can hold it's own, the frost drones give it an ability to make it's presence felt that the Mule simply lacks, and it's versatile hardpoints allow it to run a very offensively competent loadout. I always pick one of these up when I'm starved for cargo space but still need a competent warship.

Fractus: I'll be honest, I never figured out what if anything I was supposed to do with the Fractus, it seems to be a Condor with an extra small hardpoint, but the Condor is literally a token flight deck you attach to your fleet on the cheap, the medium hardpoint is universal now, which sounds nice until you see it's spinal and offset on an awkwardly wide frame, which basically limits it to missiles anyways, but the Thrush has made it much more feasible as a dedicated missile support platform. I really don't have any strong feelings about it, it feels kind of underwhelming but then again so does the Condor.

Storm: Oh man, this thing, This thing just can't figure out what it wants to be, it has so many hardpoints all over the place none of which lend themselves to any logical loadout. The 3 forward medium slots all have arbitrarily varied firing arcs that make broadside builds far more awkward than they need to be, rearwards medium slots are even stranger, with one being arbitrarily universal with a 360* arc, and the one behind it hybrid like the rest with a slightly restricted field of fire, the 4 missiles on the side seem superfluous when you already have 8 MMLs, as you don't really need that many Magicboxes or Thunderbolts, and the 3 universals in the bow have the same issue as the Fractus' universal, they're offset on a ship that almost forces you to build around broadside salvos, and they're spinal mounts, so you effectively have another 3 missiles on top of the 12 you already mount, and finally the small hybrids are spread out and relatively few considering how many mediums there are. Originally I had planned to use the smalls as Recsons and the mediums as Graves, as I like my weapons to have synergy like that, but then I noticed how lopsided the hardpoint distribution is and decided I'd rather have more kinetic than more HE, so now I have to use the smalls as Artassaults, which were certainly not my first choice for what to use on a capital ship. I may try using all of the small for PD and the mediums 3/2 as KE/HE tomorrow, but for now I'm just saying that I was thoroughly confused trying to fit this, but those 4 flight decks are hard to pass up.

Speaking of flight decks, on the topic of fighters, I've been noticing that they have an annoying tendency to take one hit from more or less any weapon, instantly lose engines, and then just get hammered into dust as they harmlessly spin around in front of the entire enemy fleet, with all the money I spent acquiring two squadrons of Valiants on top of my Strifes I had hoped for a bit of durability, but the Wanzers all seem thoroughly irrelevant in all situations due to their frailty and emphasis on closer range direct fire weapons.

and as for weapons.

Recson S and V: Oh my god, where do I even start on how AMAZING this is? It's a hard-hitting KE standoff weapon with good accuracy and an acceptable rate of fire, it is the perfect wombo to the MML's combo.

Grave HMG: Another thing that left me thoroughly underwhelmed, the Grave is a fun idea, a longer ranged Assault Chaingun with less rate of fire, but in every instance where I tried to use it the poor accuracy just made it a source of flux for my ship without actually getting me any results, I really haven't given it a chance in cruiser level combat though, so it may redeem itself there.

Artassault: Combos great with a pair of Recsons on the Vapor, lots of HE burst damage with good spread, seemed to compliment the hit and run nature of my smaller ships well, and made it a mean anti-fighter PD weapon.

IBIS: Good, dependable PD, a Vulcan with more range but less saturation, I don't think I ever had any explicit issues with it.

Burchel: Surprisingly meaty for a PD weapon, I refuse to consider it a viable choice for use against enemy ships because it's too prone to being distracted by missiles or flares though.

Glaux: A Burchel without the PD targeting, me likey very much.

State: I'll be honest I was a bit biased against this thing at first but it seems to have very respectable damage output when paired with a second State, it tended to chew through targets at a good pace and the flux was quite manageable, I'll probably start making more use of it in the future.

Raptor: I'd compare this roughly to the Double Flak, a constant hail of bullets guaranteed to stop all but the most shocking of missile volleys, one alone can generally cover the PD needs of most ships.

Uhlan: Somewhat clumsy to use but functionally a scaled up antimatter blast x3, when the AI managed to leverage it the results were immediate and dramatic, if a bit heavy on the flux, definitely a good artillery piece though.

Micro Missile Launcher: Bread and butter, they tend to swarm the AI and cause it to panic with evasive maneuvers, which in turns makes the MM situation worse because now they're behind it too, and so the AI will continue to try and evade the MM swarms and only manage to make its situation worse, a fun weapon to spam.

Thunderbolts: Another one I was kind of biased again, I tend to dislike any missile with non-renewable ammo and it takes some stellar performance to earn my respect...which is exactly what the Thunderbolt offered me, I found my Storm could reliably dispatch fleeing frigates with a single pair of these from virtually any angle, and the speed was quite impressive too.

Magicbox: So much fun, an airburst PD missile, it's very fast, very accurate, and very effective, definitely a compelling choice alongside the MML.

Banish: I...I don't think I've ever seen any of the ships I gave one of these to actually use it.

« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 01:33:52 AM by Surge »
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OOZ662

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #200 on: February 29, 2016, 01:52:12 AM »

I definitely like it even if I can't figure out what ECM bonuses it's offering me.

Figured I'd chime in on this part; when the Derecho's ECM fires, missiles in range stop guiding.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #201 on: February 29, 2016, 03:35:14 AM »

Wow, thanks for the feedback, much apreciated. I can't say I'm disagreeing with anything except the Draft bit. Most of the negative sides exist by design (you can't only have awesome stuff otherwise nothing is awesome anymore) A couple of reactions though:

Draft: Basically a Vigilance without the shield, it genuinely struggles to stay alive and/or contribute to a fight in any way unless you hold it's hand and attach it to a carrier or civilian ship, where it will still die as soon as that ship gets engaged by the enemy. Basically a trap for newer players looking to buy their first Diable ship.
I wouldn't say it's a trap: it has no shield indeed but more firepower than a Cerberus and better stats except for the cargo. It's quite a decent missile platform early game that can keep ships busy while you zip around dispatching them in a Vapor.

Quote
Derecho: So I really didn't expect much of this thing, I figured it had some token weapons for self defense and a token missile rack for token fleet support, it's armament being purely a formality in light of it's ECM utility, but the large hybrid slot allows it to run with some very useful weapons and makes it something of an artillery platform in battle, with mine running an Uhlan it keeps chiming into engagements just to burst open a cruiser after it overloads. It's fun when it decides to contribute, but mine seems content to simply watch most engagements, though I suspect this to be more the fault of the Uhlan than the Derecho, I definitely like it even if I can't figure out what ECM bonuses it's offering me.
As mentioned before, the system greatly reduces the tracking of missiles in a 1000SU radius. Enough to maintain most of them in a straight line and help your PD. It's not that useful against most vanilla missiles, but against Exigency or Scy missile spam, or some SS+ waving missiles it help a lot.

Quote
Fractus: I'll be honest, I never figured out what if anything I was supposed to do with the Fractus, it seems to be a Condor with an extra small hardpoint, but the Condor is literally a token flight deck you attach to your fleet on the cheap, the medium hardpoint is universal now, which sounds nice until you see it's spinal and offset on an awkwardly wide frame, which basically limits it to missiles anyways, but the Thrush has made it much more feasible as a dedicated missile support platform. I really don't have any strong feelings about it, it feels kind of underwhelming but then again so does the Condor.
Yup, it's sole role is to provide a cheap flight-deck with some support fire. Just like the Condor and it doesn't have to be any better.

Quote
Speaking of flight decks, on the topic of fighters, I've been noticing that they have an annoying tendency to take one hit from more or less any weapon, instantly lose engines, and then just get hammered into dust as they harmlessly spin around in front of the entire enemy fleet, with all the money I spent acquiring two squadrons of Valiants on top of my Strifes I had hoped for a bit of durability, but the Wanzers all seem thoroughly irrelevant in all situations due to their frailty and emphasis on closer range direct fire weapons.
More micro-missiles to distract the enemy weapons is the answer. Diable already has the reputation of having the best fighters in the game, but you need much more than 4 wings to reveal their true potential.

Quote
Banish: I...I don't think I've ever seen any of the ships I gave one of these to actually use it.
It's a bit clunky for now. I intend to give it a custom, more reliable AI in the future though.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #202 on: February 29, 2016, 08:40:21 AM »

I still don't really trust the Draft to do anything that would involve being shot at, I respect that it's relatively well armed for a frigate and has those spinal guns, but the fact of the matter is, to me anyways, that the drone is inadequate protection in most situations, given that it doesn't even cover the entire frontal arc and the AI is generally bad about keeping the front end of their ship towards the enemy, and this just makes the Draft a cheap tomb for 25 crew and 4 missiles.

I think the issues with fighters aren't so much a problem with Diable as they are just a problem with fighters in general, they're very fragile, quickly become insanely expensive to field in supplies and crew, and are made completely pointless by a few officers, that said I still think they need more durable engines so they can actually engage targets proper and not just flameout instantly, this issue may be a bit more exasperated in my view than it actually is due to me expecting a lot of the Valiants though, maybe I'm just watching them closely and seeing them lose fighters to these instant flameouts and in turn drawing fire while the other 4 squadrons mob an enemy and beat it into dirt.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 08:42:23 AM by Surge »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #203 on: February 29, 2016, 09:12:43 AM »

You can see the Draft put to good use in Fallen Shogun's playthrough on Youtube.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #204 on: February 29, 2016, 09:22:42 AM »

Alright, I'll see what he's done with it.
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Mazuo

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #205 on: February 29, 2016, 03:25:17 PM »

On the subject of the Burchel, I am greatly amusing myself currently with a Maelstrom that uses 10 of them with 3 Glaux and loaded out MM spam.  It is very entertaining to see the ship drift into a heated combat zone and liquefy every missile and fighter threat in the area and then turn its gaze upon the unfortunate enemies just behind them.  I've used the Glaux as the main weapon on a testbed Hayle for most of this 0.7.1 campaign and short of some flux issues before an officer develops Power Grid experience it does a great job rivaling or besting my more traditional 2 Recson V and 1 Trifire setup.

The Trifire feels like it could use maybe a touch more punch on unshielded hulls, but it's generally in a solid place for a scaled down version of the larger weapon and I'm quite happy with it.  Love that it can keep flux pressure up on shields.  The Hayles themselves are far more durable in combat now that I can mount 2-4 Magic Box systems on them and keep the worst missile threats at bay.

The Calm has become a much better ship with the addition of the Vortex drones.  What they can't shoot down often impact on the drones instead of the ship itself.

Versant is just a damn tough little ship and the Harvest is perfect.  I haven't noticed the Heavy ILIS adding much besides its light show that often, but the numbers seem good.

Stratus certainly put the 'combat' in 'combat freighter'.  Perfect strategic point holders while my fleet is busy with the worst threats and I rarely worry that any forces that split off to retake objectives will get past them.

The Fractus was my go-to solution for early flight deck acquisition and with a Thrush and Burchels it throws a little firepower downrange into the warzone, while those wonderful beams and its Frost squadron stop any enemy fighters or bombers from trying to disrupt its operation.

I don't do a lot of complicated flying myself and mostly setup fleet priorities and let them figure it out so I'll just add I've seen them use the Banishes mostly pretty competently aside from some rare oddities like launching all of them at once, the target then being too far away and the missiles self-destructing.  Generally though against mid-size or larger targets without adequate PD they're taking a large shield blow or devastating hull damage.  I wouldn't mind details on what extra status effects they actually deal, but their efficacy is enough for me and the mystery adds to their fearsome nature.

Starting out this last campaign Diable's worse than average shields were a minor concern quickly alleviated by the power of their early long-range kinetics and other powerful weapons.  Diable is certainly one of my favorite factions now and looking forward to fielding them again in 0.7.2 once a few more mods are updated.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 03:48:46 PM by Mazuo »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #206 on: March 03, 2016, 06:48:14 AM »

Sorry for the late reply:

On the subject of the Burchel, I am greatly amusing myself currently with a Maelstrom that uses 10 of them with 3 Glaux and loaded out MM spam.  It is very entertaining to see the ship drift into a heated combat zone and liquefy every missile and fighter threat in the area and then turn its gaze upon the unfortunate enemies just behind them.  I've used the Glaux as the main weapon on a testbed Hayle for most of this 0.7.1 campaign and short of some flux issues before an officer develops Power Grid experience it does a great job rivaling or besting my more traditional 2 Recson V and 1 Trifire setup.
Burchels and Glaux are pretty good indeed but they can't pop a strong shield open though, and will pause against a very strong armor. Against Frigates and Destroyer however few weapons beat them.

Quote
The Trifire feels like it could use maybe a touch more punch on unshielded hulls, but it's generally in a solid place for a scaled down version of the larger weapon and I'm quite happy with it.  Love that it can keep flux pressure up on shields.
Like its bigger cousin, it's good against hull and shields, but are you willing to swap those tasty Micro-Missiles for the punchy Banishes or Thunderbolts they need some help from? ^^

Quote
I don't do a lot of complicated flying myself and mostly setup fleet priorities and let them figure it out so I'll just add I've seen them use the Banishes mostly pretty competently aside from some rare oddities like launching all of them at once, the target then being too far away and the missiles self-destructing.  Generally though against mid-size or larger targets without adequate PD they're taking a large shield blow or devastating hull damage.  I wouldn't mind details on what extra status effects they actually deal, but their efficacy is enough for me and the mystery adds to their fearsome nature.
The Banish torpedoes do not have any special effect on impact.  ???
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Mazuo

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #207 on: March 03, 2016, 02:51:46 PM »

Yes, I've found that the hard way with some larger and tougher enemies, but an all beam ship with some missile backup still does a pretty nice job.  Plus just extra points for style if not always the strongest loadout.

As for the Banish, that's good to know, I was just referring to the description that talks about 'inducing side effects on contact'.  May want to modify that a bit if they are actually just strong damage.
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Surge

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #208 on: March 05, 2016, 01:54:49 AM »

Starting to move out of the honeymoon period of finding what ships work and seeing how I can push them and into a campaign of trying to maximize my fleet and compete with the Templars. The emphasis on alpha damage is quite helpful for dealing with Templars but I have to say that traveling anywhere from Outer Terminus is pure ass, if a sudden wall of storms doesn't double your travel time it'll more likely just appear directly on top of you and follow you through the huge cloud between Aztlan and Eclipse, which means that what should have been months of supplies becomes weeks, and I have no choice but to go through the wall barring my return trip lest I run out entirely.
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SierraTangoDelta

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Re: [0.7.2a] Diable Avionics 1.61 - Minor adjustments for 0.7.2 (27/02/2016)
« Reply #209 on: March 05, 2016, 09:25:25 AM »

I like the Grave HMG's, but I feel that the recoil is just a bit too high, as it becomes really inaccurate very quickly. Is it meant to be fired in bursts instead of on full auto?
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