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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] Diable Avionics 1.87 (27/09/2017)  (Read 160059 times)
tanith
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« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 12:56:09 AM »

Only one of the Valiants in a squad ever seems to do any shooting, the other two seem stuck in high speed mode?
And thanks for reviving this!
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2015, 01:05:09 AM »

Only one of the Valiants in a squad ever seems to do any shooting, the other two seem stuck in high speed mode?
And thanks for reviving this!
Yeah depending on the enemy they are fighting it happen. They will have a much better behavior after my hotfix, but the final fixes will come after 0.7.1 is released.
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dis astranagant
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2015, 08:43:00 AM »

Loading a Hayle with Annihilators and Heavy Machine Guns is fun.
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 09:27:34 AM »

Okay, small hotfix for the few issues reported, and added support for Version Checker:

Require LazyWizard's LazyLib
Compatible with LazyWizard's Version Checker.

Changelog:
Code:
1.11

BALANCING

 - Grave HMG:
  . Range raised to 725 from 475.
  . Flux per shot raised to 85 from 80 (340fps from 320).
 - Burchel:
  . Flux per second reduced to 275 from 375 (50fps sustained from 68).
 - Recson S:
  . OP cost raised to 8 from 5.

 - Prices adjusted to vanilla levels.

BUGFIXES/IMPROVEMENTS

 - Improved the Valiant transformation logic.
 - All projectiles are now slightly more visible.
 - Slightly improver the Heavy TPC projectile.
 - Variant adjusted for better use of missile.
 - Slightly improved the Plover/Thunderbold effect visual, modified the description.
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speeder
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2015, 11:40:55 AM »

I don't even played your mod, but if you want to balance the fighters being too OP:

Some other sci-fi series (Battletech for example) mention that transformable vehicles weren't made because they are inherently fragile with lots of moving parts...

You can thus make your fighters glass cannons, maybe in one mode they are absurdly fast (and hard to hit), with good weapons, and in another mode they have a really good front shield, but in both modes it has little (or zero) armor, and will get exploded with just a couple hits of chaingun fire.

As for wanting transformers everywhere I wasn't talking about your mod, I was talking about wanting more mods (including from other people) with transforming ships =D
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Troika
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 01:37:57 PM »

I actually don't think the fighters are particularly OP. They get swatted fairly quickly if trying to pick on any formation of ships that has decent PD. For example, try running them against an Imperium fleet sometime, they just don't get much done.
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Ghoti
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« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2015, 01:39:23 PM »

Troika: This mod is very vanilla balanced. I haven't had much luck destroying a wing of valiant fighters in a vanilla frigate, they usually kill me first, which is unusual because every other vanilla fighter wing in the game is easy pickings. That might not be OP of course, they have deployment points of a cruiser, so they have the cost to match. They are very powerful compared to vanilla.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 01:42:31 PM by Ghoti » Logged
Tartiflette
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« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2015, 03:32:50 PM »

Valiant fighters are a bit too strong I think. They are costly and with very few replacements, but they can pick off frigates one by one as they come in range and only struggle a bit when surrounded. They are pretty good at backing off to get repaired. I'll probably lower their shield efficiency: that should be enough to make them killable, or at least prevent them from firing.
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Ghoti
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2015, 04:40:03 PM »

yah valiants are pretty terrifying. ... come to think of it what are the stats of the weapons they're firing?

hrm...

Valiant Thermal Pulse Repeater   
diableavionics_valiantright         
range: 650
damage/shot: 100
turn rate:24
ENERGY   
flux/shot:100
chargedown:0.5

so... that's 200 dps over 650 dist right? and they can keep firing them.

This weapon fits between the IR Pulse Laser @ 150 dps over 500 dist, and the Pulse Laser at 300 dps over 600 dist, and it outreaches both of them, plus they have missiles and PD.

and a wing has 3 fighters. You're getting hit by 6 of those things. I was *WONDERING* why I was getting creamed by them.

To compare: the Gladius fighters are good and they only have two IR Pulse Lasers, and there's only two of them to a wing! Though in fairness, the Gladius fighters cost 3 deployment points. Not 9. That said, pretty sure one valiant wing could tear 3 Gladius wings to pieces.

edit: Looking at the valients further, each fighter has a vent speed of 350, and a capacity of 2000.

A wolf is at best capable of 250 vent and 4250 capacity. So those little valiants are about as powerful as a single frigate. Their vent speed is what makes them so lethal. all three of them together kick out 1050 flux vent.

To put that in comparison, the Apogee cruiser has a maximum flux dissipation of 1000.

Trading shot for shot, Valients can out DPS an Apogee. Apogee's have super awesome shields of course, so it doesn't end up being a contest, but yikes!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 05:02:26 PM by Ghoti » Logged
Tartiflette
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 12:26:14 AM »

yah valiants are pretty terrifying. ... come to think of it what are the stats of the weapons they're firing?

hrm...

Valiant Thermal Pulse Repeater   
diableavionics_valiantright         
range: 650
damage/shot: 100
turn rate:24
ENERGY   
flux/shot:100
chargedown:0.5

so... that's 200 dps over 650 dist right? and they can keep firing them.

This weapon fits between the IR Pulse Laser @ 150 dps over 500 dist, and the Pulse Laser at 300 dps over 600 dist, and it outreaches both of them, plus they have missiles and PD.

and a wing has 3 fighters. You're getting hit by 6 of those things. I was *WONDERING* why I was getting creamed by them.

To compare: the Gladius fighters are good and they only have two IR Pulse Lasers, and there's only two of them to a wing! Though in fairness, the Gladius fighters cost 3 deployment points. Not 9. That said, pretty sure one valiant wing could tear 3 Gladius wings to pieces.

edit: Looking at the valients further, each fighter has a vent speed of 350, and a capacity of 2000.

A wolf is at best capable of 250 vent and 4250 capacity. So those little valiants are about as powerful as a single frigate. Their vent speed is what makes them so lethal. all three of them together kick out 1050 flux vent.

To put that in comparison, the Apogee cruiser has a maximum flux dissipation of 1000.

Trading shot for shot, Valients can out DPS an Apogee. Apogee's have super awesome shields of course, so it doesn't end up being a contest, but yikes!

A better comparison would be the Xyphos:
120 dissipation for 1000 flux, compared to the 350 / 2000 (2.5x better for the Valiant)
50 armor 750 hull compared to 175/1450 (2.5x better for the Valiant)
120 degree omni-shield, 30 flux per second, 0.6 efficiency compared to 90 omni/80 fps/1.1 efficiency (2x better for the Xyphos)
Two Burst PD and one Pulse Laser (333 dps 600 range) compared to the single PD + two light TPC (2x 200dps 650 range) + (weak) missiles (1.5x better for the Valiant because the missiles are more decoys than anything else)
Cost 2 supplies per fighter, 2 per month and has 16 replacements from 100%CR compared to 3 per fighter, 3 per month and 7 replacements. (1.75 better for the Xyphos)

So each Valiant is almost worth around two Xyphos. That is strong indeed, but not that crazy strong, given the price tag. As I said, I intend to reduce their ability to fire under pressure by reducing the shield efficiency (or the flux dissipation) and raising the shield upkeep. Reducing the wing size to two is also a possibility once 0.7.1 drop and I can give them a better transformation logic that could make them more efficient.

Btw fighters can vent but only do so extremely rarely. I saw it twice in years of playing.
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Cik
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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2015, 02:30:17 AM »

>someone makes a strong fighter

"it's too strong compared to these other fighters that aren't any good"

:^)
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2015, 02:49:28 AM »

Personally I find all vanilla fighter very strong but the Talons. I mean, you can't loose them, AND they get rebuilt in combat! They are the ultimate cannon fodder while still packing a decent punch.
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Troika
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« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2015, 01:34:05 PM »

This works fine with the new patch, with the exception that it needs to be updated for faction commission compatibility. Smiley
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Tartiflette
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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2015, 02:19:13 PM »

Require LazyWizard's LazyLib
Compatible with LazyWizard's Version Checker.

Diable Avionics, now at war with the rest of the sector for real! Also decent nerf for the Valiant, and a small buff to the Maelstorm and Pandemonium.

Changelog:
Code:
1.2

0.7.1 update

BALANCING
 - Valiant Versatile Fighter:
  . Light TPCs range reduced to 600 from 650.
  . Light TPCs damage per bolt reduced to 75 from 100 (dps reduced to 150 from 200).
  . Light TPSs flux per shot reduced to 75 from 100.
  . Missile damage raised to 150 Frag from 100 Frag (dps raised to 75 from 50).
  . Flux dissipation reduced to 250 from 350.
  . Armor reduced to 100 from 150.
  . Shield upkeep raised to 125 from 80.
  . CR to deploy reduced to 5% per fighter from 6%.
 - Maelstorm:
  . Deployment/monthly cost reduced to 50 from 55.
  . Flux dissipation raised to 1200 from 950.
 - Pandemonium:
  . Deployment/monthly cost reduced to 60 from 70.
  . Flux dissipation raised to 1750 from 1150.
  . Armor raised to 1750 from 1500.


BUGFIXES/IMPROVEMENTS

 - Diable Avionics now post commissions and engage in hostilities.
 - Improved the transformation AI for the Valiant.
 - Valiant Light TPC sprite and sound slightly toned town.
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speeder
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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2015, 02:32:30 PM »

You ignored my suggestion it seems? Sad
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