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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.51 RC4 (2020/04/20)  (Read 544689 times)

IraqiWalker

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1050 on: February 20, 2020, 01:32:35 PM »

Hi folks, I just created my profile not 5 minutes ago. Been playing this game for a couple of weeks now, and I just saw the art style and design in this mod and I fell in love.

Would someone be able to provide a list of what software I would need to get in order to attempt creating custom ships? I would also love to know what was used to create the transformation animations. I don't need a walkthrough, as that would be asking too much, just a pointer in the right direction and I'll try and figure it out from there.

Thank you,
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1051 on: February 20, 2020, 08:10:54 PM »

Hi folks, I just created my profile not 5 minutes ago. Been playing this game for a couple of weeks now, and I just saw the art style and design in this mod and I fell in love.

Would someone be able to provide a list of what software I would need to get in order to attempt creating custom ships? I would also love to know what was used to create the transformation animations. I don't need a walkthrough, as that would be asking too much, just a pointer in the right direction and I'll try and figure it out from there.

Thank you,

For a start, you might want to head into the "Modding" forum category for information rather than occupying a released mod's thread. Regardless, modding Starsector is really easy - at least the basics of "adding a ship".

Spoiler

There are a couple of tutorials around for this sort of thing btw, but not a huge amount. Vayra's tutorial is fairly well-regarded (if still a WIP last time I checked), but your biggest and most interesting resource for modding advice - beyond the stock game files - is the Starsector Unofficial Discord, where you can find lots of established modders talking about content design and creation.

If you want to make your own sprites through whatever means, the usual recommendations are Photoshop (if you want to pay for things) or Krita and Gimp (if you want free stuff). The latter two are recommended in combination as they each have features the other lacks - I use Krita for most things and Gimp for checking pixel mass.

When it comes to "coding", to just get a ship in game you need to start with the Ship&Weapon Editor. It's pretty self-explanatory to use, and with it you can create ship hulls, variants, weapons, fighters, etc. without needing to do finnicky stuff by raw text.

Even so, it's helpful to edit game files in raw text, so having Notepad (ideally Notepad++) or an equivalent editor is a must. You'll also want a spreadsheet editor - Excel or LibreOffice are recommended - for editing those "CSV" files, which are basically spreadsheets of data and can be edited as such.

All of your files will need to be in a mod environment, ie. folder structure, and you can reference any old mod for an example of how to arrange this. Alternatively, I've got a Mod Template lying around for just such an occaision - it doesn't have everything, but it has the major folders already in place as well as the "mod_info" file.

From there, your first reference should ALWAYS be the vanilla game files. Want to know how to make a ship variant? Look in the core game files. Want to know how to make a hullmod? Core game files. And so on. This applies to many features and covers a large amount of the basics - ships, variants, weapons, fighters, factions, missions and basic hullmods and ship systems.

Once you get into actual coding of scripts, you'll want an IDE - a programming environment application. I use NetBeans, but other people use things like IntelliJ and O... There's one that starts with O but I've forgotten the name, dangit.  And there's others, look around and see what works for you. (Starsector's coded in Java btw.) For complicated things like transforming ships, you'll have to look at other mods that do that (like this one) for reference, but those aren't particularly difficult to execute. Once you've mastered that, the only limit is your imagination!

No matter how crazy you want to get with modding however, the first step is almost always "Make a ship and put it in the game". Doesn't have to be fancy, doesn't need a clever ship system or crazy built-in weapon. Just make a basic ship and get it in the game through a mission or in the campaign through a faction. Once you can prove you're capable of that much, it's all yours.

[close]
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IraqiWalker

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1052 on: February 20, 2020, 10:12:54 PM »

Hi folks, I just created my profile not 5 minutes ago. Been playing this game for a couple of weeks now, and I just saw the art style and design in this mod and I fell in love.

Would someone be able to provide a list of what software I would need to get in order to attempt creating custom ships? I would also love to know what was used to create the transformation animations. I don't need a walkthrough, as that would be asking too much, just a pointer in the right direction and I'll try and figure it out from there.

Thank you,

For a start, you might want to head into the "Modding" forum category for information rather than occupying a released mod's thread. Regardless, modding Starsector is really easy - at least the basics of "adding a ship".

Spoiler

There are a couple of tutorials around for this sort of thing btw, but not a huge amount. Vayra's tutorial is fairly well-regarded (if still a WIP last time I checked), but your biggest and most interesting resource for modding advice - beyond the stock game files - is the Starsector Unofficial Discord, where you can find lots of established modders talking about content design and creation.

If you want to make your own sprites through whatever means, the usual recommendations are Photoshop (if you want to pay for things) or Krita and Gimp (if you want free stuff). The latter two are recommended in combination as they each have features the other lacks - I use Krita for most things and Gimp for checking pixel mass.

When it comes to "coding", to just get a ship in game you need to start with the Ship&Weapon Editor. It's pretty self-explanatory to use, and with it you can create ship hulls, variants, weapons, fighters, etc. without needing to do finnicky stuff by raw text.

Even so, it's helpful to edit game files in raw text, so having Notepad (ideally Notepad++) or an equivalent editor is a must. You'll also want a spreadsheet editor - Excel or LibreOffice are recommended - for editing those "CSV" files, which are basically spreadsheets of data and can be edited as such.

All of your files will need to be in a mod environment, ie. folder structure, and you can reference any old mod for an example of how to arrange this. Alternatively, I've got a Mod Template lying around for just such an occaision - it doesn't have everything, but it has the major folders already in place as well as the "mod_info" file.

From there, your first reference should ALWAYS be the vanilla game files. Want to know how to make a ship variant? Look in the core game files. Want to know how to make a hullmod? Core game files. And so on. This applies to many features and covers a large amount of the basics - ships, variants, weapons, fighters, factions, missions and basic hullmods and ship systems.

Once you get into actual coding of scripts, you'll want an IDE - a programming environment application. I use NetBeans, but other people use things like IntelliJ and O... There's one that starts with O but I've forgotten the name, dangit.  And there's others, look around and see what works for you. (Starsector's coded in Java btw.) For complicated things like transforming ships, you'll have to look at other mods that do that (like this one) for reference, but those aren't particularly difficult to execute. Once you've mastered that, the only limit is your imagination!

No matter how crazy you want to get with modding however, the first step is almost always "Make a ship and put it in the game". Doesn't have to be fancy, doesn't need a clever ship system or crazy built-in weapon. Just make a basic ship and get it in the game through a mission or in the campaign through a faction. Once you can prove you're capable of that much, it's all yours.

[close]

Thank you, that's exactly what I needed. I'll also check the molding section as well. Much appreciated.
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1053 on: February 21, 2020, 11:55:07 AM »

No problemo, happy to be of service.
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Kalarima

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1054 on: February 21, 2020, 02:12:21 PM »

I love how for example Maelstorms model is just pandemonium from the side and few more ships are obviously side profile rather than top down wiew :D

Still great addition to the game and i bloody adore pandemonium :D
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GabeC1997

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1055 on: February 21, 2020, 07:50:20 PM »

See, people say that mechs aren't an efficient use of resources, but I'm almost 100% certain they're not taking into account the shear amount of volunteers they're military gets in comparison to factions that don't allow you to pilot a mech!
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Bobwolf

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1056 on: March 01, 2020, 03:33:54 PM »

Hello

I am either really unlucky or this faction seem to ALWAYS focus on the player faction.
I've done a couple of game and every single time, they siege my main faction sector forever. 4 huge fleet that always stay together.

Is this faction scripted to always siege the player's faction?
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CandyFlavour

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1057 on: March 02, 2020, 10:08:15 AM »

"Recson V" seems to OP. It shoud have around 200x2 dmg not 250x2 or even less.
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Kpop

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1058 on: March 24, 2020, 08:35:00 AM »

Cool ships. Very cool ships. If there was a fashion show for Starsector ships, any number of these would be top of the list.That said...

I tried to give this faction as shot as a true themed playthrough sticking to faction weapons and fighters, but I just can't do it, as much as I would like to. The ships are neat and the idea of the wanzers is nice but they just can't hold their own versus any faction mid-tier or above, and you can forget  about fighting [REDACTED] with them.

Here's a wall of text elaborating on the above

Spoiler
3 Maelstroms, 3 Daze, 3 Storm, 2 Fractus(most had high level officers) can't even take on a Solar, 2 Brilliants, 2 Fulgents and 4 frigates of various types. Trying again it was doable piloting one of the Maelstroms myself to pressure the Solar but it was still a mess with lots of casualties.

The hammer and anvil doesn't really work when the "anvil" of the Daze just crumbles like a cannonball through a wall when faced with any sort of concentrated firepower from a single capital, and then everything behind it is just mincemeat. Incorporating Blizzias to be able to take down hardened targets just doesn't get the job done, they are so slow and the range at which they launch their comparatively weak payload just doesn't cut it.

There are several things I just don't understand about the faction:
-Advanced Avionics hullmod: Surviving for the long periods of time to actually get the hullmod to take effect isn't an easy task, so why is the "bonus" just, well, terrible? Target leading accuracy is a non-issue in most cases and better acceleration is just  a minor bonus.

The acceleration does help smaller more nimble ships like the Hayle do what it does. The Maelstrom and Panda would benefit slightly for more effective use of flicker core, maybe?

-Dampened Mounts(especially the built in ones): It's a 200 flat bonus which makes it great for short range PD options to take advantage of.  Falls off when added to longer ranged weapons(projectile only) which is fine and dandy but not a gamechanger. What I don't get is why it has so many drawbacks for such a minor boost?

The fragility really doesn't help when the shield size of the ships is really small, and this is compounded by the fact the ships that have it built in are VERY long. Even getting hit in the side by an average destroyer and you're going to lose several emplacements for a bit. Why does it have a 20% fire rate penalty too? The first malus was already more than enough. Would make sense to only apply those debuffs(or one of them) to ships that  are using the hullmod on non Diable ships personally.

-Only one answer to capital ships: Other factions can field a 40-60 DP capital to slug it out with another one, with some sliders between being a damage sponge, great fighter/bomber support or lots of firepower. Diable only has the very costly Panda to deal with this common threat. A few battlecruisers Maelstroms can handle fine, but a dedicated battleship? You're out of luck.

-Multiple Officer Skill Dependency: I understand the reasoning of shying away from dedicated carriers, we all know the silliness the Astral and like are capable of. That said, when using battle-carriers you have to make a choice between skills that help the ship and skills that help the fighters, and you are forced to make big compromises somewhere.

This is best exemplified by the Storm battlecarrier, which fields enough fighters you would want to lean towards fighter specializations, but since it is still a battlecarrier and wants to use its guns, the AI will put itself in a position to do so and get quickly dispatched due to its poor flux stats, lackluster shield, and only average speed and handling. It is a bit beefier than most carriers of similar size but only slightly. Using stand-offish weapons like the Rescon V can help, just like using HVDs on a Heron, but Herons have the mobility to back the reduced but much less risky fire support up.

-Specialized Wanzers: Not really a gripe like the rest, just would be nice if the Wanzer weapons were in the codex so I could pick the ones best suited for particular roles for fighting different enemies. I can only make guesses from watching how they perform in combat.
[close]
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 09:06:05 AM by Kpop »
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Grievous69

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1059 on: March 24, 2020, 08:40:04 AM »

Yea, lately I've been doing one faction only runs, where I use only ships from that faction, and their weapons + some vanilla ones. And in the end I've had least success with Diable, I mean they're not that bad, but using only them feels like I'm shooting myself in the foot. They don't seem worth flying except the Pandemonium which is a real beast. Only redeeming thing about them is the flicker core, giving them a bit more leeway, but they still die super fast and don't feel like an actual threat. Again, nothing is terribly wrong with the mod, the ships/weapons just seem weak-ish to me. Maybe I was just using them wrong idk.
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lethargie

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1060 on: March 24, 2020, 11:00:30 AM »

Some pointer from what I have seen:
DA weapons aren't super great, if you get some vanilla weapon in it improve the general efficiency of the fleet by alot. Remember to invest in decent pd weapons, The medium frag machine gun is deceptively useful if you pack several.

Ships that I found to be quite efficient from the DA roster:
Maelstrom: Extremely powerful, if you get access to some vanilla weapons. The missile array saturate quite well the airspace and the mobility of the flicker core is amazing. Combine this with the extended range and you get a very effective ship. The main problem with DA weapons is the lack of efficient long range HE damage large slot. Ulhan cannon are long ranged but lack accuracy and efficiency.
Practice a shoot/vent-> shoot again policy thought and you get a mean combo
Gust: Large turret on a small cruiser is a winner. The escort ship is a bonus. With vanilla weapons a tachyon lance on the turret is marvelous.

Generally I dont use bombers Wanzer, I focus on interception of enemy ship and I let DA mobility and range take care of the rest.
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pairedeciseaux

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1061 on: March 24, 2020, 12:49:39 PM »

I tried to give this faction as shot as a true themed playthrough sticking to faction weapons and fighters, but I just can't do it, as much as I would like to.

I don't - or very rarely - play "true themed playthrough" / "faction only runs", and I haven't tried a DA start since a long time, that said here are my thoughts.

General DA doctrine:
  • maintain air space superiority, your fighters should control the area around your fleet
  • DA ships don't like being flanked ...
  • ... on the other hand DA fleet can be very good as flanking enemy ships/fleet
  • thus, a DA fleet should outnumber the enemy fleet, and should avoid being spread apart
  • a DA fleet need state of the art missile and fighter point defence on most DA ships, though your own fighters can help

3 Maelstroms, 3 Daze, 3 Storm, 2 Fractus(most had high level officers) can't even take on a Solar, 2 Brilliants, 2 Fulgents and 4 frigates of various types.

Looks like you had a fine fleet, with a good amount of fighters and regular guns. Are you confident about the loadout of your ships? DA gives you all the tools, but those are different tools than vanilla. As an example, medium size kinetic guns are available either as:
  • medium range + high rate of fire and DPS + low damage per shot, great for brawling ... but won't damage armor and the risk of being out-ranged is high
  • long range + low rate of fire + medium damage per shot, great for long range support ... but not so great if enemy ships come close

Also beware the flux-hungry large guns when outfitting your larger DA ships. And beware the range difference of the various guns on a ship, it might confuse the AI.

IMO one should always leverage this major asset of most DA ships: wide-arc turrets - they let your ships fire in most directions. Just look at those on a Maelstrom.

The fragility really doesn't help when the shield size of the ships is really small, and this is compounded by the fact the ships that have it built in are VERY long. Even getting hit in the side by an average destroyer and you're going to lose several emplacements for a bit.

Other than trying to avoid being flanked, improving the shield with appropriate hullmod is a solution.
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Kpop

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1062 on: March 24, 2020, 12:58:25 PM »

Sure, I could swap all the wanzers for lux/longbows/daggers/tridents and put heavy needlers/HVDs in most kinetics and use hephaestus assault guns and such. That kinda defeats the purpose of an actual themed playthrough though. In the past I've done plenty of playthroughs using ships mostly from one faction but use whatever weapons I already know work and I end up trying the faction ones a few times, not liking them and swapping them out for something like some busted GH equip or fury torpedos from blackrock.

As for as DA weapons go yeah thats kind of a bit of a hangup for me. Lots of different ranged weapons that don't synergize particularly well. My Daze all had resistant flux conduits heavy armor from trying the autofit, swapped them for hardened shields and ITU.

Edit: Just tried Panda versus a Nova class. The Panda fluxed itself out in 3 seconds and got swarmed by frigates.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:23:05 PM by Kpop »
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lgustavomp

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1063 on: March 24, 2020, 01:27:25 PM »

IMHO, DA is all about wanzers and Uhlan. They're brutal compared to normal vanilla. But that's all, everything else is pretty... confusing.

Built in Dampened mount is a mistake on maelstrom, she's very powerful facing forward but quite vulnerable to flanking, and slow traversing/firing weapons that take 100% more dmg is not cool. If you want the extra 200 range and its dangers, spend OP to do it.

Built in Wanzer Servicing Gantry is a mistake almost everywhere. I'd prefer 25 extra OP on a storm to spend on something else or use WSG if I really want to invest in wanzers.

Grave HMC and Glowtusk, are basically SO only guns. Vanilla autocannons have, overall, better stats. And also, why would you use grave HMC while you can use Recsons? Oh, maybe because you have a built it dampened mount, granting your recsons 0.5°/hour of traverse speed.

I also tried to go full DA: ships, wings and weapons. The experience was not bad, but I felt like I had to work against the faction traits to make them usable. And I left most of the faction weapons getting dust.
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Igncom1

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Re: [0.9.1a] Diable Avionics 2.04 (2019/05/14)
« Reply #1064 on: March 29, 2020, 04:36:30 AM »

I just want to thank you for the lovely mod and all of the work you have put into DA! Thank you for the many hours of entertainment!
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.
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