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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Personal Contacts (08/13/20)

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Messages - Ghoti

Pages: 1 ... 17 18 [19]
Suggestions / Re: Flux as a weapon or propellant
« on: February 19, 2012, 01:26:16 PM »
Actually I thought Flux was starfarers way of representing a speculated real element of space combat.

Overheating in space is actually a big problem, any thing that works with the kind of energy required to fire a laser brighter than a flashlight is going to have issues with heat. Only way to get rid of heat is through radiators.
It's speculated that those vents would be an easy target in combat, crippling ships. see:

Given what we've seen, it's safe to say that the civilizations of starfarer have discovered some source of energy that violates the second thermodynamic law (which by the way, is theoretically breakable, maybe: ). So the only concern is heat heat heat.

If there's anything I'd officially add to this conversation it would be this: Ships that are venting should be susceptible to debuffs or extra damage if they get hit. I don't really care either way though  ;)

Bug Reports & Support / Unexpectedly large enemy encounter.
« on: February 19, 2012, 01:01:53 PM »
There were no survivors.  :-[

[attachment deleted by admin]

Mods / Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« on: February 19, 2012, 01:00:43 PM »
has anyone mentioned the current balance with the scatter PD's and cutlass?

About the cutlass:
Having a high flux for a high damage gun doesn't balance it out, because you essentially get more for your hardpoint. Also, in some cases more flux is what you want.

And the scatter PD's:
Let's just say the standard sickle frigate is the most dangerous frigate in the game in the hands of a player. Those scatters do almost as much damage as a cutlass, and they don't cost the flux, and they're energy weapons so they work on everything, and they're point defense. Do these things Julian fries as well?

The design of the ships are cool, REALLY cool (except the mothership, that thing is a teal and red hue of strange.), but there is a tendency with mod makers to make their additions uniquely powerful, so that they stand out. Some of these ships and weapons really stand out.

Suggestions / Re: No base costs for anything.
« on: February 18, 2012, 05:04:27 PM »
A good example is say a station has
100 units of X, being sold for 10credits per unit.
you purchase 50 units of X for 500credits.
All of the sudden the station only has 50 units of X so its price goes up to say 15credits per unit.
You just simply sell it back all your units of X for 50% profit.
My first answer to this was that the cost of having low supplies (or the discount of high supplies) should be passed on in the price. That was a good answer for an entity that both bought and sold.

It's also not as big an issue as you think, most industrial entities won't buy and sell the same unit, they would buy one unit and sell another. So it shouldn't be a consideration.

...or not fun as everything becomes the same profit as everything else.
Are you SURE that's what would happen? Is that in contrast to setting a base price for everything and only having specific things be profitable?

General Discussion / Re: Combat Ai
« on: February 18, 2012, 06:29:10 AM »
I think that behavior in fleet's need a little work. Where's the "Don't go wandering off on your own and get surrounded" button?

As for dodging...
I recommend you drop the shields and enter focus mode.

Suggestions / Re: No base costs for anything.
« on: February 17, 2012, 09:15:35 PM »
Of course no system will produce that behavior.  That's the point.
My point is that its just another black box algorithm that you want to use to generate some values that could be generated in much simpler ways.
Its just abstracted at a different level.
Yah I agree it's a fudge.
I don't think it's overcomplicated! I think it's the most basic set of rules to automatically set the prices of an arbitrary supply chain.
I can't think of an alternative that would be simpler, can you?

Then there's a question of how often you update prices. If you don't do it with every unit of something sold by the player, you could have a situation where the player can buy/sell the same stack to the same planet over and over, with profit (costs X: players buys, there's less "current supply", it costs >X, player sells, repeat). That's not particularly hard to avoid (most likely with "hacks", whose effect on the overall economy  may not be immediately apparent).

You brought up some interesting points, a few I had thought on already (a few more I had not!) but I couldn't voice any concern as I do not know exactly what your aims are with this game (I only know that right now it's an interesting hybridization of star control and mechwarrior, which was easily worth my 10 bucks)

About the devious player: If a station sells to the point of creating a demand for supply, then the cost associated with that should be passed to the player through the sale. Selling by unit rather than by batch is a simple way to approximate this. (I suspect the formula would be rather complicated though)

However, you are absolutely right to say that if this results in exponential fudging, it will only cause more problems. I believe it can be avoided. It's hard to say what other kind of things might crop up though!

preferably i want something a bit more complex than X3. but not so complicated as EVE. at the very least i dont think items in game should have hard set max/min prices but instead prices dictated by a more complex algorithm than X3 where if a station has 50% of its max resources the demand price is 50% of said resources min/max price scale.
You and me are on the same page.

Suggestions / Re: Being able to shoot other weapon groups with a key press.
« on: February 17, 2012, 07:12:15 PM »
Did Alex mention why it was we couldn't change weapon groups and the linked-alternate behavior mid battle?

Suggestions / Re: No base costs for anything.
« on: February 17, 2012, 07:11:08 PM »
That's why there are entire universities devoted to trying to understand exactly what logic does generate market behaviors.
and you think those 4 rules will generate that behavior? It's auto-pricing, not an expert system.

The only thing this does is set the prices. Supply and demand is not a real economy, I didn't ask for that. Supply and demand is a fudge. It's just a fudge that will generate a stable economy. It really isn't as complex as you're making it out to be.

Suggestions / Re: No base costs for anything.
« on: February 17, 2012, 06:08:48 PM »
Supply and Demand is not a real economy. With base prices, 2 bad things will happen: Either you mess up and the economy blows up, or you don't mess up and it never changes.

There is also nothing complicated here. I'm curious as to what you mean "Complex AI needed in order to have them say 'change production to more lucrative trade good' ". You just wrote it. That wasn't very hard was it?

Suggestions / No base costs for anything.
« on: February 17, 2012, 05:48:54 PM »
Given where you plan to take starfarer
Trade goods, run mining operations, build industries — and defend your interests
Having a base cost for any good is a bad idea. If you use logic like that, you can't simulate all kinds of interesting economic phenomena like monopolies,  or depressions.

Egosoft does this with x3, they're really very proud of their "economic" simulation, the problem was if you actually run it, the whole thing blows up. even buying at 150% and being sold at 50% of the base cost, a fundamental resource just was never worth hauling, so nothing ever got made. (this was in X3, in X3:TC and X3:AP they fudged it into working)

The price of a unit should be dictated by:
                  Supply                    Demand
Current   how much entities have it in supply?       VS     how much entities need it right now?
Future   how much of it, and its prerequisites,
are being manufactured?
how much manufacturing is being
done with it as a prerequisite?

No clever AI needed, this is just number crunching. Those rules basically guarantee a stable economy. Automatic pricing.


oh by the way.
On fedora 16 x86_64 export is
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.7.0-openjdk-"

Hi Alex, I saw your pinned topic, and I did try that!

I got this error:

0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Starting Starfarer 0.5a Preview launcher
3    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - OS: Linux 3.2.5-3.fc16.x86_64
3    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Java version: 1.7.0_b147-icedtea
1069 [main] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /home/Ghoti/starfarer/native/linux/ /home/Ghoti/starfarer/native/linux/ wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 (Possible cause: architecture word width mismatch)
java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /home/Ghoti/starfarer/native/linux/ /home/Ghoti/starfarer/native/linux/ wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 (Possible cause: architecture word width mismatch)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader$NativeLibrary.load(Native Method)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary0(
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(
   at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary0(
   at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(
   at org.lwjgl.Sys$
   at Method)
   at org.lwjgl.Sys.doLoadLibrary(
   at org.lwjgl.Sys.loadLibrary(
   at org.lwjgl.Sys.<clinit>(
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.<clinit>(
   atÒ00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.launcher.StarfarerLauncherUI.void(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.launcher.StarfarerLauncherUI.if(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.launcher.StarfarerLauncherUI$Oo.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.launcher.StarfarerLauncherUI.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.main(Unknown Source)

which is WEIRD, because that library exists in ./native/linux/

I tried symlinking liblwjgl to liblwjgl64, but that didn't work either... Rumor has it SELinux doesn't like libraries in writable owned directories, but usually it pops up with an alert if it prevents an action from happening...

Mystery. MYSTERY.

error crops up when attempting to launch Starfarer from configuration screen.

Here is Starfarer's logs:

366  [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Found display mode: 1600x900, 50Hz, 24bpp
2235 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Running vanilla game with no mods.
2235 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.settings.StarfarerSettings  - Loading settings
2296 [Thread-6] ERROR  - Exiting - exception in LWJGL initialization
org.lwjgl.LWJGLException: Could not choose GLX13 config
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplayPeerInfo.initDefaultPeerInfo(Native Method)
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplayPeerInfo.<init>(
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplay.createPeerInfo(
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.create(
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.create(
   atô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.String.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$ Source)
   at Source)
2297 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.String  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Exiting - exception in LWJGL initialization
java.lang.RuntimeException: Exiting - exception in LWJGL initialization
   atô00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.String.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$ Source)
   at Source)
Caused by: org.lwjgl.LWJGLException: Could not choose GLX13 config
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplayPeerInfo.initDefaultPeerInfo(Native Method)
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplayPeerInfo.<init>(
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.LinuxDisplay.createPeerInfo(
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.create(
   at org.lwjgl.opengl.Display.create(
   ... 4 more
3360 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  - ID     Calls   Duration    Percent
3361 [Thread-6] INFO  com.fs.profiler.Profiler  - --------------------------------

This is likely relating to being the wrong architecture of java, or some library I don't have that I don't know Starfarer needs because it's on every system by default except for x86_64 and it's not reporting that it needs it.

This is after I downloaded a heap of i686 libraries, I'm thinking maybe I missed a few?

I don't suppose I could convince you to make a 64bit build? It would make me happy!

Pages: 1 ... 17 18 [19]