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106

Mods / Re: [0.96a] Persean Chronicles, a quest mod (updated 2023-07-23)

« on: July 24, 2023, 08:20:36 AM »

looks like there's yet another post-telos combat crash. it seems to be the same crash reported by papasan. relevant logs:

Spoiler

Code

844729 [Thread-3] INFO  wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleScript  - Telos battle ended. Did player win? false
844754 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.LoadingUtils  - Loading JSON from [DIRECTORY: C:\Program Files (x86)\Fractal Softworks\Starsector\starsector-core\..\mods\Nexerelin (data/config/exerelin/factionTraits.json)]
844758 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.StatsTracker  - Tracker tracking battle
846191 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
	at progsmod.data.campaign.EngagementListener.reportBattleFinished(EngagementListener.java:62)
	at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.reportBattleFinished(Unknown Source)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleScript.onTelosBattleEnded(Telos2BattleScript.kt:203)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleScript.advance(Telos2BattleScript.kt:172)
	at com.fs.starfarer.title.Object.for$Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.combat.super.new.super(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)

[close]

Huh, this is different; the other was, well, not caused by Nex, but surfaced by it...I was doing something weird that vanilla allowed but Nex didn't. That's probably the same situation here, but with Progressive S-Mods.

there's also an issue with ship loadouts, apparently, though it doesn't seem to be related to the crash.

Spoiler

Code

568968 [Thread-3] WARN  wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleCoordinator  - Unable to refit null 36f43ae.
java.lang.NullPointerException
	at wisp.questgiver.wispLib.ExtensionsKt.refit(Extensions.kt:451)
	at wisp.questgiver.wispLib.ExtensionsKt.refit$default(Extensions.kt:419)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleCoordinator.createInitialEnemyFleet(Telos2BattleCoordinator.kt:181)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleCoordinator.startBattle(Telos2BattleCoordinator.kt:97)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.Telos2SecondLandingDialog$14$1$1.invoke(Telos2SecondLandingDialog.kt:129)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.Telos2SecondLandingDialog$14$1$1.invoke(Telos2SecondLandingDialog.kt:127)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.json.PagesFromJson$1$4$1$1.invoke(PagesFromJson.kt:118)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.json.PagesFromJson$1$4$1$1.invoke(PagesFromJson.kt:116)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.InteractionDialogLogic$PageNavigator.onOptionSelected(InteractionDialogLogic.kt:215)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.InteractionDialog.optionSelected(InteractionDialog.kt:55)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.classsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.OoOO.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.n.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.W.super(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)

---

 [Thread-3] WARN  wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleScript  - Unable to refit null 36f4167.
java.lang.NullPointerException
	at wisp.questgiver.wispLib.ExtensionsKt.refit(Extensions.kt:451)
	at wisp.questgiver.wispLib.ExtensionsKt.refit$default(Extensions.kt:419)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleCoordinator.createEugelFleetReinforcements(Telos2BattleCoordinator.kt:229)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleScript.<init>(Telos2BattleScript.kt:29)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.battle.Telos2BattleCoordinator.startBattle(Telos2BattleCoordinator.kt:112)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.Telos2SecondLandingDialog$14$1$1.invoke(Telos2SecondLandingDialog.kt:129)
	at wisp.perseanchronicles.telos.pt2_dart.Telos2SecondLandingDialog$14$1$1.invoke(Telos2SecondLandingDialog.kt:127)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.json.PagesFromJson$1$4$1$1.invoke(PagesFromJson.kt:118)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.json.PagesFromJson$1$4$1$1.invoke(PagesFromJson.kt:116)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.InteractionDialogLogic$PageNavigator.onOptionSelected(InteractionDialogLogic.kt:215)
	at wisp.questgiver.v2.InteractionDialog.optionSelected(InteractionDialog.kt:55)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.classsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.OoOO.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.n.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.ui.W.super(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
	at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
	at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:750)

[close]

there were over 60 of these refit errors, though i only grabbed the first ones that were discernably different

I'm pretty sure these are fine, as long as they aren't causing any issues in the battle. I saw warnings that look like the same thing.

edit: additional note. there's a moment between defeating the initial fleet and eugel spawning in where it's possible to end combat early, though this just takes you back to the previous <relive combat> dialogue, where you can restart the combat as per usual. it doesn't crash the game if you do this, though. maybe eugel's related to the crash in some way?

telos quest was started during 3.0.6 using console commands, though i only started doing the quest after upgrading to 3.0.7
the 3.0.6 folder was deleted before extracting 3.0.7
nexerelin is enabled, random sector is not

Did you have devmode on? I'll double-check, but when I tested before, you couldn't end combat early. It is possible that in fixing the code interaction with Nex, I broke this.

Thank you for the reports! I don't love bugs, but it's much much better than having them and not knowing

107

General Discussion / Re: This Forum's Stance on AI-Generated Content

« on: July 24, 2023, 07:41:59 AM »

As a baseline: [...]

Understood, thank you for the response!

108

General Discussion / Re: This Forum's Stance on AI-Generated Content

« on: July 23, 2023, 07:47:58 PM »

There may be more, but here are a few public things trained on David's art.

https://civitai.com/models/52480
https://civitai.com/models/30
https://civitai.com/models/8296
https://huggingface.co/Severian-Void/Starsector-Portraits

Three are from Severian Void, one posted by a Kiktamo.

HuggingFace is like Github for models, Civitai is like, idk, NexusMods. Both are extremely searchable by the public and indexed by Google.

I'm not sure if David is aware of this or not - I know it's not my fight, but *specifically* copying one artist's style and making it easily usable by anybody (rather than something that you probably wouldn't find unless you were part of this modding community, ie not indexed by Google) seems different from training a general-purpose model from hundreds or thousands of artists. Or maybe it isn't, and the only difference is that these websites have options to file takedown requests. Maybe you saw these months ago and have already had this discussion.

109

General Discussion / Re: This Forum's Stance on AI-Generated Content

« on: July 23, 2023, 04:43:36 PM »

In the same vein, is training a model (eg a SD checkpoint) on other modders' work without permission and releasing the output allowed? This has happened a few times already.

That's a good question. I'm tempted to say "no", though that runs into similar issues with how one might enforce this. So, I'm not sure. (I'm also tempted to say "yeah, you asked for this, so have fun!" But I won't, ahem.)
----(para removed to take less space)
Going a step further, I think training on the work of a specific actual artist to mimic their work, without their permission, is pretty poor behavior so if that comes up... well, it seems like just about everything with this would need to be on a case-by-case basis. But I could certainly see uninviting someone from the forum based on that alone.

Thanks! I agree with that stance. Training off of this community's work is a much more direct "harm" than what these models did, and in both cases where it happened, the people didn't disclose what they trained on until challenged. But if nobody can tell that someone trained on their work, even the original artist...it's a brave new world.

In the same vein, is training a model (eg a SD checkpoint) on other modders' work without permission and releasing the output allowed? This has happened a few times already.

So far as I'm aware, this isn't terribly practical or likely to come up

Thanks for your input, but it has come up already multiple times.

110

General Discussion / Re: This Forum's Stance on AI-Generated Content

« on: July 23, 2023, 04:11:10 PM »

This is just common sense and shouldn't be necessary to say, but, just in case.

In the same vein, is training a model (eg a SD checkpoint) on other modders' work without permission and releasing the output allowed? This has happened a few times already.

I don't envy you the decision made, but selfishly welcome it. Hopefully, in the future, ethically-trained models will be more widely available and better (I tried Firefly and was not particularly impressed with its ability to create vanilla-adjacent images, though perhaps with more practice I could. It also has awful watermarks which I'm unsure about the ethicality of removing).


Below is a generated image that I would have had to remove from the scene. It's used for a single, optional dialog branch. And it's not as good as what an artist would have made, but it's not worse than nothing (imo). (for anyone wondering, this is unreleased, you didn't miss anything)

Spoiler

[close]

111

Mods / Re: [0.96a] Persean Chronicles, a quest mod (updated 2023-07-23)

« on: July 23, 2023, 09:54:50 AM »

RC Hotfix

If you use Nexerelin, please redownload to get the hotfix. There was a bug preventing the Telos quest from appearing if you didn't use Nex.

The reason is that I checked if Random Mode was enabled, but didn't check if Nex was enabled, and my defaults were set up so that it appeared like Random Mode was enabled if Nex was not enabled.

112

Mods / Re: [0.96a] Persean Chronicles, a quest mod (updated 2023-07-03)

« on: July 23, 2023, 01:23:20 AM »

3.0.7
- Fixed
  - Telos quest _required_ Nex's random mode instead of the other way around.
  - This fix means the quest will actually show up. Thank you Seamus Donohue!
- Added
  - Two new Telos weapons, a small and a medium beam.
- Changed
  - Corrected Vara's slots to 2x small turrets and 1x medium hardpoint, from 2x medium turrets.

https://github.com/wispborne/persean-chronicles/releases/download/3.0.7-rc2/Persean-Chronicles-3.0.7-rc2.zip

113

General Discussion / Re: This Forum's Stance on AI-Generated Content

« on: July 21, 2023, 04:36:21 PM »

The AI models don't contain any artwork, or pieces of artwork.  It's just not how they work.  They learn concepts.

Respectfully, this is just ... not true. The current crop of what's called "AI" doesn't work with concepts [...] I'm not sure where you're getting this idea

When you ask stable diffusion to include a tree, it's not pulling a particular image of a tree, or mixing 5 images of a tree...

High-Resolution Image Synthesis with Latent Diffusion Models
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2112.10752.pdf

There's some good discussion going on, but imo the focus on how the process works is a bit beside the point, and demonstrably incorrect besides.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.13188.pdf

You may argue that it's rare, or that it doesn't happen accidentally, or that they aren't pixel-perfect replicas of the copyrighted work, or that this is just abstract numbers being pulled back together in a way so as to haphazardly recreate the originals, but I don't think pretending that these models can't reproduce [close enough to] any of the copyrighted work they were originally made from is the right way to argue this; whatever the reason, they can.

Spoiler

[close]

The point I argue is essentially that good things can come from bad, and in our microcosm, the good outweighs the bad.
I have been trying to compare it in my head to other things banned for ethical reasons, like bigotry, and seeing if my argument could be used against my values there, but removing those rules would have a clear and sudden effect on the community for the worse. That's not true for generated content, not at all.
Don't think I have anything else to add that hasn't been said (though I did a lot of writing and deleting ).

114

Mods / Re: Locked and Loaded - a Magic Bounty pack 0.12rc1 (2022/01/16)

« on: July 21, 2023, 03:34:02 PM »

Is it possible to set a item reward that is a random item or random blueprint?

It is not. I'm thinking of adding it, though.

How does this look? It would be separate from the existing loot drop option(s).

Code

"randomLootQtyMin": 1,
"randomLootQtyMax": 5,
"randomLootWithWeights": [
  "id1": .5,
  "id2": 1,
  "id3": .75
]

Without me explaining what that is, does it make sense? There would be a comment explaining it, but it's always better when things are self-explanatory.

edit: On second thought, this doesn't allow you to specify a quantity of each item, eg 500 metals. The only reasonable way to fix that I can think of is to change the weight into an object, and now this starts to look like more complex to use than MagicBounty is supposed to be.

115

General Discussion / Re: This Forum's Stance on AI-Generated Content

« on: July 21, 2023, 10:59:43 AM »

Whatever side of the debate you're on, like it or not, generated content is not going back into the box. Even if it is a fad, which seems unlikely but who knows, it's never going completely away. The disruptions are here and will get unstoppably worse. My job is on the block, too, just a bit further out; if I could put it back in the box, I would.

In theory, I agree with Alex; these models that everything is based on used copyrighted material, without recompense, and everything they produce is an advanced algorithmic "kitbash" of that.

In practice, this is a scene of people who, after getting home from work, indulge their creative side by making content that they enjoy and releasing it. The generated content being made is so distant from its sources that we can only tell by it having a certain "look" to it, and even then only when it's not done well - often you can only tell by looking at the credits.

Modders using generated content aren't putting artists out of a job (with rare exceptions); it's adding more life to mods that otherwise wouldn't have art due to the cost and waiting time involved in commissions.

The legal argument against generated content in mods seems sketchy - we have IP mods with copyrighted content, such as Star Wars 2020, but we avoid other copyright thefts, and the line in the sand seems largely around the morality of the violation to me. Or maybe that was just an oversight. NexusMods is allowing generated content unless the copyright holder files a takedown, which of course requires that the content is identifiably copyright-violating, and Valve was already mentioned, not that either of those are known for their strict moderation but they are still policy makers. The ethical argument that it hurts artists rings hollow in my opinion (again, for Starsector specifically), as it's almost never being used in place of a commission (Tahlan's art would cost an estimated 2500eur in commissions, Illustrated Entities would cost over 5000eur I'm sure, and as an aside, Nia and SirHartley are some of the bigger spenders on commissions).

I wish this had fallen in the direction of letting hobbyists play with the cool new toy, as long as they don't hurt anyone, rather than banning it because the toy is causing damage outside of our sandbox.


(side note: techbros, please stop trying to help)

116

Mods / Re: [0.96a] Persean Chronicles, a quest mod (updated 2023-07-03)

« on: July 20, 2023, 09:02:34 PM »

In the Karengo quest "Depths", upon arriving at the target planet, the narrative opens with this sentence:

"As before, on Gilead, Karengo guides you down to a landing spot far away from the local government."

The target planet is a decivilized world outside the Core Worlds.  Therefore, there is a mismatch between the narrative text and the scripted parameters for choosing a destination world.

Ah, that's referring to the Dragons quest, which took place on Gilead. I'll adjust that to make it clearer.

Persean Chronicles version 3.0.6, I'm unable to find the Telos quest legitimately.  I am using Nexerelin, but the Core Worlds are NOT randomized, it's been half-a-cycle since I completed "Depths", and I haven't found the "Delivery to Earth" bar prompt at any Independent market of size 5.  (No Independent markets of size 6 exist in my game, currently.)

I've also tried the console command "devmode on" and checking the Independent markets again.  There's no sign of it.

I do run a lot of mods, so I'm not sure if another mod might be interfering with Persean Chronicles, somehow.

Hmm, could you upload your save file? If you compress it to a .zip, it might be small enough for the forum, or if you have Discord I'm @wispborne there. I know some people are getting the quest, but I'm not getting as much feedback as I'd expected, which could be for a number of reasons but the quest not reliably showing up is one of the more benign ones

edit: The save file is in your game folder, under "saves". You can sort by Last Modified to find it easily, it's the campaign.xml file.

117

Modding / Re: [0.96a] [NEW!] Enhanced Portraits

« on: July 17, 2023, 11:51:59 AM »

The mod itself could use some cleanup. There are two empty New Folders in there, the photograph of godiva, and the images are all scaled up despite never appearing in the game at that size, so the mod ends up larger and takes slightly longer to load than necessary.

118

Mods / Re: [0.96a] Persean Chronicles, a quest mod (updated 2023-07-03)

« on: July 17, 2023, 08:17:42 AM »

Question, what if I fail the Riley - Visiting Home quest?
Can I trigger it again somehow by visiting relevant planets?

You won't get it again naturally, but you can reset it using Console Commands...though honestly those might be broken right now, I was fixing them.

Still, try PerseanChronicles_ResetRileyQuest.

119

Mods / Re: [0.96a] Persean Chronicles, a quest mod (updated 2023-07-03)

« on: July 03, 2023, 06:41:57 PM »

Persean Chronicles v3.0.6

https://github.com/wispborne/persean-chronicles/releases/download/3.0.6/Persean-Chronicles-3.0.6.zip

Fixed
  - (Another) crash after the Telos battle (thanks to bifur).

120

Mods / Re: SMOL: The big mod manager & utility

« on: July 02, 2023, 03:11:21 PM »

Thank you for taking the time to leave a comment! Knowing that SMOL is helping is the reason I keep coming back to work on it

Slightly relatedly, I have pretty much stopped doing versioned updates with changelogs.
So, rather than a new post with "Beta 15" and the list of changes and a download link, I'm simply making updates when I feel like it and not posting the changes or new number or adding a download link.

The best way to see a changelog is by looking here, although it contains things that may not be released yet: https://github.com/wispborne/SMOL/commits/dev.
And here are the updates I've released, although my notes for what's in those updates are patchy: https://github.com/wispborne/SMOL_Dist/commits/unstable.

The way to get the most updated version is simply to download the version on the main page, and it'll prompt you to update when you launch it.

All in all, this reduces the amount of time I spend doing boring clerical work (something which I continue to do for MagicLib and Persean Chronicles, because it's much more important for mods).