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226

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 26, 2021, 12:41:25 AM »

Well, phase ships and derelict contingent fleets are way stronger than normal fleets. They are in their own league regardless of IM, EWM or SO changes (unless built-in SO is just that strong. I don't play with SO). It will be easier to nerf the two outliers, than to have everything else power creep to their levels. I wouldn't want this especially because that is too much power, when a Champion with an Enforcer escort can destroy several other capital ships and cruisers, and a Doom can destroy everything in the game on its own.

It is the median what was nerfed. Phase, Auto and Derelict are still there and just fine. Snap out of this outlier/median fallacy.

227

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 26, 2021, 12:26:18 AM »

Thank you for the welcome, but I think I'll be leaving... I think all your points are unsupported by any reasoning and dubious at best considering that me and everyone else are using the so called "legacy" ships to defeat endgame challenges. And you again either didn't read or didn't choose to attempt and argue against any of my points that disagree with you, so there's not that much point in me trying to convince you.

Reasoning is very simple:

ECM was nerfed. It no longer provide qualitative advantage. Cant outrange enemy so much that their whole defense system breaks.
Both IM and EMW were nerfed. They no longer provide qualitative advantage. Survivability of the thin armored high-tech ships dedicated as the short ranged energy weapon strike platform dropped considerably.
SO was blocked from being built-in. And yes, again, it no longer provide qualitative advantage. In this case, lotsa free flux and speed.

It was never about possibility of defeating endgame challenges.

Let me quote myself from the beginning:

"Anything else will severely hinder your combat capabilities and can be compared with shooting yourself in the leg. Yes, you can live with that but why would you do it?"

And I did address all your points. Twice actually.

228

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 11:57:29 PM »

Wait, you think the skill changes between .95 initial release and now were that drastic and BAD for non-phase ships?

I'm saying this the whole time. Welcome to the discussion.

• You can no longer destroy enemy fleets with your ECM.
• You can no longer have the synergy between EWM and IM.
• You can no longer have free SO.

That's three major legacy strategy what made it competitive.

229

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 11:11:40 PM »

Uhh, did you actually read anything I wrote? You basically restated the exact meaning of my first sentence (after saying I missed the point) then ignored everything I said, including some pretty detailed reasoning about why you DO have a point from your perspective, and why other people might disagree with you from their perspective, what the problem is, and possible ways to fix it.

You said that the problem is the phase/auto ships being op and not the skill system. I said that it is the other way around. Due to skill nerfs the legacy has no longer anything decent to offer. So it is the problem with the skill system and not the problem of the phase/auto ships being op.

The skill system no longer has skills what make legacy fleets competitive enough.

This way your whole argument about some work needed to make a fix is false. Work has already been done. Reverting the skill system back to the original 0.95 will fix the problem.

230

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 10:29:08 PM »

You missed my point entirely.

Phase and automated ships not just good or better, the whole gameplay with them is something else.

You get xp faster -> you overtake everything else in progression. You do not need large fleet -> don't have to spend skill points on the logistics. Again, resulting in player getting comparatively stronger. Do not bother about combined arms or officers? Same thing, goodbye Leadership.

And yes, this is the problem with the skill system because originally, prior to nerfs, legacy system had something to offer. It was not as good as phase/automated but decent enough comparatively to the phase/auto. Although I picked phase doctrine at the beginning of my run, later I was respeccing into different things. It is when the nerfs struck. And opened the whole freaking rift between new and legacy. Contrast was too strong.

And again. all I hear is nerf-nerf-nerf. Nerf this, nerf that and look, there is something shiny, too different and not like the others so lets nerf it too for a good measure. Why did the new skill system was even implemented in the first place? After all the fixing there will be only some shortened and bland version of 0.91 left. Do you really think that replacing the whole phase lineup and the player controlled Radiant with some neutered versions is actually a good idea? It is the real fix to the problem? I guess you never actually tried to take a candy from a baby. It will be the end of vanilla as it cease to be the source of the new content.

231

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 01:26:41 PM »

Yeah. 1 per bounty.

8 officers. 8 SP to mentor, 8 SP for elite skills, 16 SP for built-in modules for 8 ships. 32 SP.

32 bounties to try a new "normal" build.

Assuming you have nothing but your current fleet. Ships in my storage that don't fit my current doctrine have a total of 21 s-mods. I also have 30 SPs that I didn't spend yet, but I hire enough mercenaries to always be at 2-3 of them, so that number could be higher. Admittedly, majority of my officers were found in cryopods, so I didn't really spend story points on them. I wonder how important making sure your officers are perfect is now, it was something I just kinda eye-balled in 0.9.1 and in this run in 0.95.
Though if I wanted a radical change of fleet composition instead of gradual, I would probably start a new game isntead.

Yes, I counted the basic minimum. And no, starting new game requires re-enabling all the contacts, boosting all reputation etc etc etc. More importantly its beyond the point. What is - playing at x5 difficulty saves time. But not for the legacy fleets. Their owners have to suffer the consequences of full time farming job.

232

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 11:30:05 AM »

Now Gunnery Implants provide boost to recoil suppression as a default effect but the ECM one is elite.

233

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 11:10:28 AM »

As far as I know, with current balance, fleet composition tier list would probably be something like this: phase ships and derelict contingent at the top, then high-tech with a Radiant, then most other fleet compositions, then low-tech fleets.

Well enough? How many fights are you doing with them at 500% difficulty rating? And how fast do you farm SPs after lvl15?

What are those 500% fights? I forgot the game has an XP bonus for fighting at a disadvantage until now. About SPs, I earn them at a rate of roughly one per bounty, thanks to a massive pile of bonus XP I can't get dispose of quickly enough.

[Phase ships are extremely high reward high risk ships, for lack of sustainable defenses you get near invulnerability.

Heh heh heh heh heh heh...

Yeah. 1 per bounty.

8 officers. 8 SP to mentor, 8 SP for elite skills, 16 SP for built-in modules for 8 ships. 32 SP.

32 bounties to try a new "normal" build.

234

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 11:04:11 AM »

Zig being secret is a joke. As I said, I've found Alpha Site in about 5 min. No spoilers. And I can and will use anything available without cheating. This is why Rad was perfectly balanced prior to 0.95. Cant get it. Case closed. Also I have no idea what that Scarab gun is. And don't want to know because it is irrelevant.

The last time phase ships were near that good Harbinger lost its frontal Reaper battery variant. However, now they are better. But the problem is that the skill system now forces you to choose something. Well, don't mind if I do...

I was constantly fighting at 500% difficulty to earn the SP faster (that's x5 xp gain). And you need them to respec yourself, your officers and refit your fleet. To try some new exciting possibilities that the game had to offer. Recent nerfs solved all these problems. No need to do anything of that now.

235

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 10:01:17 AM »

Legacy fleets still work well enough to kill everything. If you don't want to play with phase ships, you can still do everything in the game. I personally think the phase skills should be removed entirely, and maybe some of the bonuses can be distributed to other skills in weaker forms.

Well enough? How many fights are you doing with them at 500% difficulty rating? And how fast do you farm SPs after lvl15?

236

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 25, 2021, 09:41:13 AM »

Well, this ship is the most powerful thing in the current release so why is it a bad idea to center your build around it?

I didn't say your build, I said the balancing of a skill in general. If a skill is defined by being only useful to a -single- ship, then it's so overspecialized as to never really be a pick for the player. Remember, that thing is suppose to be a secret.

Thus, why would I choose IM over RS? To pilot non-phase ships? Well, about that, as I said, you simply cant pilot the best non-phase battleship. Whats left are subpar obsolete ships incapable of the same performance. Choosing them is choosing to handicap yourself. It's a struggle to get the third place. And, finally, Industry. Yes, it has a lot of potential to solve all the problems you are creating for yourself by picking large fleets of those obsolete ships mentioned earlier. Pick the optimal path and you don't need to think about logistics whatsoever. The only fun thing in the whole aptitude is already scheduled to get balanced.

And not we're into the extreme min-maxing. Just do everything perfect and play by math! Im sure you're good enough to pilot those ships perfectly and enjoy it, but I'm not. Nor are a lot of people, and none of us not in the phase ship party enjoy phase ships. Saying [redacted] battleship, SNK ship(exageration) it is, makes every other choice invalid is ridiculous. To just get alone is a nightmare and a half, often costing more than it's worth, and you need to drop a specific skill to even have it. Even if DP limits were removed it still wouldn't be black and white min-maxing since you're ignoring availability. Even if you weren't it's an issue with ship balancing at worst. You need to expand your horizons more man.

There is no balance in the current version.

You have legacy fleet (low, mid and high non-phase techs) what was designed as mutually balanced as possible and lives by its rules. And you have new fleet of ships what break said rules. Intentionally, since they are either fleet destroying bosses or "exotic touch" needed for other ship to look "normal". Of course they are hands down better. By design. I see no room for discussion here. We can have endless debate about whats better: Paragon, Onslaught or  Conquest but not about this.

As for availability issue, I have to say that the hiding place of Zig was found in about 5 minutes from the start of the new game and first salvaged Rad was the result of the Pather mission to survey what to my surprise happened to be the Red Planet itself. I never asked for this!

With all that said I must add that my point is that current skill system is non-existent because all that "no fun allowed" policy towards legacy fleet. Phase road is like fast track career option you know. You just got yourself your first Afflictor(P) and the next thing you know you are so overpowered that the game have nothing to offer as a challenge. But on the slow track you are getting your bonus armor cut into thirds because it is so important that old ships should be still vulnerable to medium caliber guns. I just can't stress enough how important this all is under Rift Torpedo fire...

And since I'm unable to unsee the whole Zig blitz possibility I'm feeling like I'm done with the current build.

237

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 24, 2021, 10:47:36 PM »

Well, this ship is the most powerful thing in the current release so why is it a bad idea to center your build around it? Second, RS is also much more helpful on the way to this ship. You do not tank damage in the phase ships like in the others. The first iteration of the IM could help on the Afflictor just as on any other frigate but it doesn't exist anymore. However, you do shoot projectiles. And the faster they go the more likely they are to hit. I did see SO ships literally dodging incoming AM blaster shots. The Matrix grade stuff.

Thus, why would I choose IM over RS? To pilot non-phase ships? Well, about that, as I said, you simply cant pilot the best non-phase battleship. Whats left are subpar obsolete ships incapable of the same performance. Choosing them is choosing to handicap yourself. It's a struggle to get the third place.

And, finally, Industry. Yes, it has a lot of potential to solve all the problems you are creating for yourself by picking large fleets of those obsolete ships mentioned earlier. Pick the optimal path and you don't need to think about logistics whatsoever. The only fun thing in the whole aptitude is already scheduled to get balanced.

238

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 24, 2021, 01:59:00 PM »

Derelict Contingent is already marked for the nerf.

Reason for the Ranged Specialization is called Ziggurat.

239

General Discussion / Re: Impressions about skills in 0.9.5

« on: April 24, 2021, 06:30:56 AM »

As for "unlimited money". Contact bounties now yield 1.5-2 times more. 1.2mil for tesseract and 0.6 for hunter killer ones.

240

Announcements / Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes

« on: April 24, 2021, 04:48:18 AM »

I got a mission to analyze the coronal hypershunt. Regular mission "run the sensor package" etc. Is that ok?