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Messages - valefore

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Mods / Re: [0.6a UPDATE!] Blackrock Drive Yards
« on: September 29, 2013, 08:20:28 PM »
And Kudos to the awesome logo! The Green Orange box looks really cool with BlackRock. I personally disliked the sun symbols cause they reminded me of the imperial japanese flag... so Yay!

Mods / Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.7)
« on: September 23, 2013, 11:49:59 PM »
Don't worry about it valefore, I don't think there's any true hostility in Uomoz's corv comments and there's no reason (for me at least) to feel attacked by them. We're discussing a topic that we consider controversial so it's natural if one comment seems a bit harshly worded.
That's what I think too...

If you're all quite done waving your respective genitalia around about unrelated nonsense...

There's plenty of room for supply costs to be tweaked and given that the majority of the ships have identical supply costs/repair times/deployment costs it's fairly safe to say that they're either placeholders or simply a starting point.

Frankly, I enjoy the short downtime nature of the current Neutrino ships. It would be nice to have their supply costs brought in line with other ships of similar classes while still maintaining the low downtime but I'm not sure it's viable given the way Logistics is counted against the supplies/day rather than the total cost of deployment.
As it stands Neutrino ships are typically the hardest to actually incorporate into your - Note, YOUR fleet - due to their large base supplies/day + logistics hit and this also has the side effect of their non-combat maintenance being much more costly though possibly not costly enough.

It's unfortunate that logistics is based on the supplies/day stat , it makes low downtime but high cost to deploy ships practically impossible.
If you want to have something take half the time to recover lost CR then you need to have it cost double the supplies/day but... that literally doubles the logistics cost of the ship :(
I'd say this is a Great comment if you omitted the first sentence. And you had to say 'Genitalia' and join in.

Anyway, that is too bad that low downtime+high CR costs don't work well. But even if it was possible, it would effectively double the maintenance costs too, right?
I don't know whether Neutrino ships deserve that kind of penalty in maintenance. They do not particularly excel in combat (except the Unsung) and if they were that expensive... for example twice as more expensive than Tri-Tachyon, I think there won't be much sense in buying Neutrino ships. Maybe doing that and reducing hull repair costs as FlashFrozen said would work by keeping average supply costs reasonable. I don't know.

I'm going back to observer mode. Sorry to bug you guys and good luck.

Mods / Re: Neutrino Corp. (v. 1.7)
« on: September 23, 2013, 08:58:03 PM »
Of course, everyone could simply take the EVE route of "cost is not a balance factor", in which case every ship can blandly have 35% CR cost to deploy and take a week to restore afterwards.

Cost really isn't a balance factor, though. I've got like... maybe 4-6 hours on my 0.6a game and I've got two Unsungs, a Jackhammer, and like 800k credits to spare. CR costs are meaningless because every large fleet engagement I get into results in far more supplies than the cost of fully deploying my entire welpfleet. And it doesn't take a week to restore everything to max CR, because it takes less than a week at Burn 7 to return to a friendly station to spend supplies to re-up CR.

-- Griffinhart

I would disagree and say that costs are in fact a balancing factor. Buying neutrino ships in the start and mid-game is much more harder than buying something similar that does reasonably well at the same time. It's not just a 50% difference or so but like a 300% difference, including weapon costs. Same goes with CR and supply usage. Until end-game, these costs are a serious matter to the growing player.
I think your example only applies to end-game situations where cost, indeed does become pretty much irrelevant. But other aspects of game play also become bland such as the power of your character and fleet and the meager challenges enemies pose. That's like saying that an rpg game isn't balanced after farming 200 hours for the best possible gear and stats. Starsector is in the alpha stages and does not have an end goal, but I would say that most people wouldn't play the game seriously after reaching the levels such as yours.

On the other hand,
Uomoz, the only time you like a faction is when it's ships are balanced almost to the point of incompetence against any half decent foe.
I don't completely agree with Silver Silence, but I do share some of his sentiments on this quote, Uomoz. I'll state right now that I think you are correct in most (only 'most' because someone can't be always right) of the things you say in this forum and that I am very grateful for the modding you do. Balance is a very important aspect of game play, and an incorrectly balanced game can be exploited in game play, feel too easy, hard, unfair and simply not fun. I also understand your preference for orthodox game design, sticking to the lore, game mechanics and styles of the original game. Anything that deviates too much from the original game can hurt the ambience of the game, leading to degraded experience or just a completely different game.

What I am concerned about is how you phrase your opinions.
Oh boy, you are SO wrong.
But I guess that most of the player base don't really care about the lore of the game.  ::)
Can't say I really like where this mod is going
it's a bit too much for my tastes.
I laugh at your total misinterpretation of what I meant.
Anyway, without sounding too harsh,

None of these comments are nice at all, and it's not like other people were bombarding you with degrading remarks. In fact, the first person you replied to was only stating his opinion and the second had mild sarcasm, and as a forum regular (I think I saw him often), I think I can understand why he did that (Although it's still BAD). But I'm not just bringing this up for the few comments you posted here, but also in others before, like when you talked about cheaters and the Hawken fleet mod.

Simply put, the comments you write can make you sound 'cold and condescending'. I won't say that you actually are that kind of person, but I think that's how you would sound to many people, and I do remember some conflicts. I mean, I cannot sense any respect for other people in the comments I quoted above, even disregarding the third one which you may have considered an attack. NONE of the people around me would appreciate me if I say 'You are SO wrong, and a lot of people (probably including you) don't care about something Important,' or 'I don't really like your work. It's too much for my tastes'. It's not even 'different tastes' but 'too much for my tastes'. I don't want to be overly analytic, but you should know that little parts of language can imply a LOT of things.

I really would have kept these opinions to myself, but looking from the reaction of the community, I thought I had to bring this up, because you guys are being way too harsh to one person over another in similar situations. If you guys think I am hypersensitive, then so be it, I'll accept the facts. But I think the least I can argue is that 'we should choose our words more carefully'.


Apart from that and Neutrino-wise, I would disagree that they are overpowered in combat, especially after the extended shields were taken off. They may be strong 1:1 but have pretty high costs, low speed, low fire power due to the arrangement of weapon mounts, and you can basically shoot through the sides of the shields, especially for big capital ships.
If they are OP at all, they are as OP as the other modded factions. Some mentioned that Junk Pirates and Black Rock are very vanilla balanced, but I disagree on that too. Junk Pirates are one of the most durable enemies I fought with and Black Rock are very aggressive and hunt and rip your fleet apart (In fact, I could kill enemies much faster with Black Rock than any other faction). And all the others too: definitely OP in Pirate and Hegemony standards. Maybe they par with Tri-tachyon.
As a side note, I think interstellar Federation was about similar to Hegemony and a little weaker than Tri-Tachyon.

I haven't played much since 0.6a, so I don't know how balanced Neutrino is in regards to CR, but I'd say it's good to go if they are similar to Tri-tachyon or slightly lower due to high initial costs.

BY THE WAY, the Unsung is definitely not balanced and I thought this was not the purpose since Uomoz specifically took the ship out for 'Boss Fleet Only' in his mod. The ship has way too many OPs, and if you max your tech tree, you can basically add 100 flux dissipation and almost every single hull mod. It's also bad since the Unsung has really high flux dissipation and the 6 large cannons are universal mounts, which means you can add 6 flux crazy super weapons and be able to fire non-stop. Also, the HERP cannon is super strong too...
But I thought this was a bonus ship like the Valkyrian Vatican mk4. I understand the reasoning for taking it out in a compilation, but does a bonus ship in a stand alone mod need to be balanced?

Mods / Re: [0.54.1a] Hiigaran Descendants v1.6.3
« on: August 13, 2013, 01:56:14 PM »
If the Pride's guns are similar to the Skaal's, I don't know if it would be that weak (I never drove the Sajuuk before). I used to snipe destroy nearly any ship with the Skaal laser system, because it has huge burst damage and range. Sure, it has huge flux costs too but it's a burst weapon and the problem can be solved by venting after each fire. I actually thought it was quite overpowered because it's almost an alpha strike and cuts through hull like cheese.

Yes, the ai is not that good with the weapon... but the ai is generally stupid in weapon usage. You could get the same result by installing a bunch of heavy blasters. maybe in 0.6 with custom ais, that won't be a problem.

Currently, I think it's a good weapon with clear strengths and weaknesses. Long range, it's a freaking planet destroyer but it's usage becomes somewhat limited at short range. Also, if every weapon and system needed to be designed with good ai usage in mind, that could also severely limit the freedom of play on the player. I think some special weapons or ships would be fun. So I personally disagree that the Skaal laser system mechanic needs change.

Mods / Re: Hawken Fleet 0.1.6
« on: July 13, 2013, 07:27:35 PM »
I'm surprised nobody mentioned this, but most of the ships lack subsystems and that makes the mod pretty bland... Also, this may be a bug, but the falcon and arrow fighter wings (the triangle ones) often fly overlapping each other, making them durable than normal and also looking weird.

The art looks great though. Awesome design.

Mods / Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.52
« on: May 27, 2013, 05:15:35 AM »
Downloading Right now.

So coooooooooooool

Mods / Re: Exerelin - Dynamic System and Faction War - v0.51
« on: May 24, 2013, 06:42:38 AM »

I understand your reasoning but your basis is flawed. As Zaphide said, the main content of Exerelin is its world generation and faction mechanics that provide a unique experience that the original Starsector doesn't provide on its own. The added factions are simply a favor done by Zaphide to allow players to take advantage of Exerelin with other popular mod factions, which may be cumbersome to do on your own. He was even kind enough to provide a very simple 3 second method to remove any factions that players may not like. In fact, this whole mod is a favor done by Zaphide to the Starsector community and he has absolutely no responsibility entitled to his work because its voluntary (except for maybe asking for permission for use from other modders, which he is doing very well). It's completely different from professional game makers who have to take responsibility of their product for sale.

As for the actual faction balances, I really see no huge problems. Sure, some ships are a bit stronger than others and some weapons are a little op, but that's it. It's nothing that you can't beat, because although they are strong, they all have weaknesses that can be strategically exploited. With this much content, it's impossible to keep perfect balance in the first place; Hell, the TriTachyon are pretty much op compared to hegemony in the original game anyway (like the indestructible hyperion?).

Depending on which starting faction you choose, the game may be difficult at different stages. If you really can't keep up, solve the problem yourself and remove the op faction. Demanding stuff from the modder can be rude at times.

Procedural meaning integration with exerelin?

I would guess changing corvus would make it incompatible with other mods but the exerelin mod really looks like something.

Well the topic of Neutrinos being op has come up before, but that's because they are very highly specialized. the shield arcs are 30 degrees, which means that you can shoot exposed hull when you fight large neutrino ships. Even if you have extended shields, they have limited mobility and fall apart pretty quickly if shot from multiple directions. They also have somewhat under-powered weapon mounts which limits their fire power or range despite their high flux vent rate. Although less related, they are also extremely expensive.

But I do agree that some ships are pretty op, namely the schwarm fighter wings and the Unsung. The former is almost impossible to kill without a trigger happy capital ship (regenerates indefinitely) and the latter has too many ordinance points. But the schwarm fighter wing costs a lot of supplies to repair and the Unsung can only be obtained by beating a boss fleet.

The issue of Neutrinos being very strong in auto-resolve seems like it can't be helped.

Also, if I buy the boss fleet contract and the boss fleet goes home (without fighting), I get rewarded for it. Is this normal? Also, the valkyrians have no starting ships or weapons at their station (supplies come though).
I know I should really try all these with UCs alone but can't help it. I played the game too much these days...

boomalot i did use numbers...i was a titan carrier with a bunch of fighters anf frigates and that doesnt work..not enough damage and again...the boss fleets have WAY too many ships and it just brings them all out at once...these fleets are dumb...theres not joy in them

Well, if it's not fun for you, just leave them be as Uomoz says.
If you want another tactic, try using 2~3 really fast frigates or fighters (e.g. hyperion or drohne wing) at the beginning to quickly capture the comm relays. Since the boss fleet has way more ships, it should be near impossible to win after the enemy captures those stations and starts to bring in their main fleet. If that's not possible, use somewhat slow but strong ships to do that instead, but this doesn't work if the enemy sends in shwarm wings (almost impossible to kill them off quickly) which a lot of the boss fleets do. The last option is to make some hellishly strong capital ships that have long range and burst damage that can kill off anything smaller than a cruiser with confidence, and send those in at the beginning and just endure the fight until you can gain the highland. The first option is the easiest by the way, and most frigates and destroyers aren't a good choice because the AI isn't good at surviving against larger threats. Of course, all of this is relevant assuming you are near level 40.

Anyway, I got a stackoverflow error regarding hanger space after I fought the doctor with UCs+other mods, where the other mods are pretty stable. Can anybody confirm this with UCs+lazylib alone?

why dont the bosses follow the rules of the game...they have waay too many ships and its not fair that they can have that and i cant which makes them impossible and virtually un-enjoyable and i do not approve of there massive amount of ships...people are wanting these giant fleets with 4 have to use 75% of my ordinance points alone to get that with no other ships so not only do they have power but they have too many ships so they can wear you down then beat you to death with pure numbers....and its not even fair that they can do that...what people dont understand is they are spawns and they come back at full power anyways so i dont know why i should even have to see a boss fleet if you can never even fight one in the first place...why are they even there...get rid of them...there not benifiting anything but pain and torture or at least follow the max ordinance points which is 175.....i want to enjoy them...but we have to be real here...they are not doing anything but ruining the experience...they dont even have to buy fuel or reality they would run out instantly and going to get hit from everyone in these forums but im being as honest as i can for the sake of this mod. 

Well, it is extremely difficult to beat a larger fleet head-on assuming all of the ships fight at the same time. However, the mechanisms of starsector mostly don't allow this and quickly capturing and controlling strategic points allows you to temporarily dominate the map, and that's all you need. Once you dominate the map, the enemy really doesn't have much choice but to send in ship after ship just to be blown up. That's why even the largest fleets don't pose much of a threat to the end game player and why the boss fleets are designed to be extremely strong+many. If your having so much difficulty about boss fleets to the extent that you're hating them, you probably aren't using effective tactics or are not aware of some critical aspect of the game.

The boss fleets are meant to be a challenge and most people enjoy them and are able to beat them. I'm not sure why you're so negative about them but I can confidently say that boss fleets are now a popular feature of UCs and I'd personally be very disappointed if they were removed or weakened.

1819662 [Thread-6] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [neutrino_theend] not found!
java.lang.RuntimeException: Ship hull variant [neutrino_theend] not found!
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.L.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.SpecStore.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.void.class$Object(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CargoData.addMothballedShip(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.A.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.A.???000(Unknown Source)
at Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.D.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$ Source)

Got this error after some time starting with Neutrinos. Ran only lazylib and UCs.
I was originally trying to check for the null pointer error so I moved my starting foxhound to the edge of the map and left it there for about an hour. Next time I checked the game crashed so I'm not sure when this error occurred.

Hi all
First, thanks for the great mod. It's really fun to play with the large number of factions and boss fleets.

Anyway, I've been an observer until now but I have something I want to comment on.

I want to comment on the issue of the inactive omnifactory and the less related cheat protection.
I haven't played 17.2, but from what I see from other people's replies and playing 17.3, it seems that the omnifactory is permanently inactive and unable to replicate items and ships. As you know, the omnifactory is valuable in that it can replicate rare ships and weapons that are unattainable through other means. Examples include fighters (also frigates or weak destroyers), which are easily lost in battle, and certain weapons that are almost never resupplied in the stations and also very rarely dropped (e.g. Dual pulsed beam cannon of the Neutrinos). Consequently, it is almost impossible to maintain fighter/frigate oriented fleets, outfit ships with specific weapons, or create your custom fleet and etc without the omnifactory in the current version of the mod and SS. I believe these are basically the reasons why the omnifactory mod is popular and why it was initially incorporated into UCs.

However, I see that you also removed that function because 'it's too powerful for the hardcore nature of UCs,' which is also understandable since the omnifactory significantly reduces the risks of battle and may make game play more loose. But I'm not trying to say which is better or worse since that's the choice of the modder anyway.

The point I want to make is that a lot of people that play your mod wants the omnifactory, and the people that don't may simply ignore it. After all, UCs is a compilation of mods and the omnifactory is simply one of them. This goes the same with cheating: there are people who want to cheat and the rest that don't want to don't have to (for the record, I don't cheat). I feel that this is different from issues such as balance, which are always detrimental to any game and so always desired to be fixed. Back to the point: by making such restrictions, you force aspects of game play through your mod (although anti-cheat protection was eventually downgraded to a warning...), and the only reason you do that is because that's how you want the game played. Some people may like that, but remember that others that don't will be pretty sad.

To me, a collection of mods such as UCs is a bundle pack of bonus factions unlike Caelus or Ironclads, which are total conversions aiming for a whole new gaming experience. Most of the time, I enjoy playing the bundle freely, often with additional mods. I'm sure that the other modders also approve when you make those changes, but Please don't make hard restrictions to the mod, e.g. make the game crash if the user tries to circumvent your intended game play. If you have no intention of hard wiring prevention of certain functions, Thanks. I guess I just worry too much. So, I'll continue to use the omnifactory+other mods for my game.

ps1. for those who enjoyed using the omnifactory with UCs, just download omnifactory separately and run them together.

ps2. I'm still getting the null pointer exception with the dev version if you haven't fixed it while I was writing this.

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