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General Discussion / Re: CSV files
« on: November 09, 2018, 03:40:58 AM »
Is there anything Notepad++ can't do?
Don't answer that. I prefer to live with my delusions.
Don't answer that. I prefer to live with my delusions.
Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)
The issue lies not in late game fleets (which you are correct are basically invulnerable) but in early game contests where a properly tuned, fast player ship can take on huge fleets of frigates and destroyers (and even cruisers).
The problem is the combination of:
a) kiting and grinding the enemy down lets you win fights you otherwise would have no hope of winning without a fast kiting ship. If you can dart in with a wolf and get a single shot in on armor/hull before retreating yourself, you will win without trouble. This is a strategy that lets the player win impossible fights early, catapulting them into the mid and late game. This could be done either purely solo, or with a couple of similar speed tuned flanking buddies.
b) it is an incredibly tedious and boring strategy, once you have the piloting skill. (Its pretty exciting the first time you pull it off, but not the third.)
Trading boring real world time for the best strategy is imo poor gameplay.
Speed is not the issue. Frigate kiting costs very few supplies, and has almost zero risk, as opposed to a full fleet battle with substantial deployment cost and recovery cost, as well as the (substantial) risk of losing ships that are quite valuable. If you lose 2 frigates and a destroyer, thats probably 80-100k credits to replace with all weapons etc, plus the time searching to find suitable hulls and weapons. That is a very substantial portion of any bounty payment, so mitigating that risk is well worth some time investment from an 'optimum play' perspective. For endgame bounties, you can easily lose much more than that in a fleet battle, so the risk/reward equation is quite simple.
If infinite kiting works best, I do not hesitate to use it.
I hear what you're saying re: being close to the project and so on; however this is definitely a change that was driven by player feedback regarding what was actually happening in the game.
Basically, that paragraph/section is a "don't take this as an absolute" kind of thing; less "summary" and more "disclaimer". The mechanic we're talking about here - infinite kiting - is exactly the sort of thing the rest of the article is about.
(Suggested reading.
It's not necessary (and rarely desirable) to try to cork every possible way for a very experienced player to exploit the game—at least not a single-player, offline game.
However, designers can go too far by trying to remove all exploits from a game. Often, the right choice depends upon the game’s context. Does the exploit drown out all other play styles, or is it a fun, alternative way to play? Does the degenerate strategy create an endless grind, or is it a quick shortcut for players who need a little help? ... If possible, designers should provide the ability to turn an exploit on or off, giving the players control over their worst instincts.
And a quick example that would likely affect even a player that's not particularly into minimaxing - let's say you're in trouble and the only way to win and avoid a fleet wipe is to use this tactic. It'll take you an hour, it's not particularly fun, and it's not particularly difficult; it mainly requires patience. A lot of people would feel forced to do it, even if they didn't want to to begin with. And this sort of thing will creep in all over the place; if the design makes it optimal, successful strategies will naturally lean in that direction.)
Player kiting indefinitely is not as problematic as the AI doing likewise against the player. Today, phase frigates can be untouchable until their CR times out.
I don't mind CR as a mechanic, after all, even the modern military can't be on combat duty 24/7, and a few engagements that could of been deadly can easily shake even the most stout of people, so some R&R is a needed thing.
No CR promotes this kind of 'kite everyone to death' playstyle as optimal.
Even waiting in its pure form is actually useful (with AI as is) - like my single AI frigate keeping enemy Capital permanently distracted somewhere far from main battle.
Frigates have speed advantage so if they decide to play waiting game, there is not much to stop them beside CR (and other frigates). Fighters are effectively very long range weapons, so they can't force fight if carrier can't keep up.