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1

General Discussion / Re: do items t stations (crew,supples ect.) restock?

« on: July 17, 2012, 07:40:33 AM »

Is there a way to speed up time beyond sitting in an Atlas full of supplies and taping the Left Shift down and taking a nap?

2

General Discussion / Re: I'll show you mine if you show me yours... ship setups that is

« on: July 17, 2012, 07:31:34 AM »

My crown jewel. I've soloed a Paragon with this baby, the one in my fleet is the one she disabled. Now if only I could get my hands on an Astral I would be complete. Two things about this ship, its very simple you get shields up with the broadside lined up and in range, you get close, crack open the shields with the SABOTS then unload the auto pulses. If you were awesome and got an overload with the SABOTS then you lower shields whip this baby around and unload the other Autopulse. Rinse and repeat. I remember taking on my first Astral and seeing the MIRVS come at me. Got a call from the PD Laser batteries, "To shreds you say?"

3

General Discussion / Re: Starfarer performance

« on: January 22, 2012, 12:12:20 AM »

Operating System
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

CPU Type
Intel Core i7-2630QM 2.0GHz (OC'd to 4.1)

Screen
17.3" HD+

Memory Size
8GB DDR3

Hard Disk
1TB

Graphics Card
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560M

Nothing short of 60 FPS ever.

4

General Discussion / Re: What's your favorite/least favorite Ship/Ship Variant?

« on: January 21, 2012, 11:52:17 AM »

Conquest Battlecruiser, or the Astral Elite Carrier...I'd just refit it for better PD.

5

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 10:51:44 PM »

Alright I'll concede, and I'll keep playing because its just that good. I hope it pans out the way you want it, I hope that more people like this control scheme. Maybe it'll grow on me. It just doesn't click right now and its frustrating. I hope I haven't caused too much of an issue for you.

I hear you. The learning curve is way too steep now, mainly for lack of UI support in explaining what everything does. I'm glad to hear that you like some aspects of the game, though! In the long term, for the campaign, one of the goals is to support multiple playstyles. Now, "RTS" is not one of those, but you would certainly be able to taylor your character build to be focused on elite piloting instead of command, if that's something you end up finding more enjoyable. Thank you for giving the control scheme another chance.

Why does the friendly and enemy AI have to be that same? Why can’t the friendly AI shut off when following my commands? Can’t the friendly AI be as “dumb as a box of rocks” but the enemy smart?

A fair question. One reason is that once the friendly AI "shut off" and started following orders blindly, I can pretty much promise you that it would get ripped to shreds by the enemy AI Another reason is to create a sense of parity between the player and enemy ships. There's also captain personalities - it'd be weird if you could completely wipe out your officer's personalities like that. Ultimately, I think that direct control of the fleet and the flagship is just too much. Of course, that's subjective.

...
Ahh well either way I hope Alex keeps to his vision rather then bowing to people hollering for anouther SPAZ or ST: Fleet command.

I too would love more than anything for Alex to complete /his/ vision, and create /his/ game, if anyone is displeased they can do as he did and make their own . Too often indie dev's bow to the wills of their customers for fear of losing financial backing

I'm open to changing my opinion on things - ironically, the new control scheme in part resulted from well-reasoned player feedback about the original RTS-like scheme! But I'm not going to do something just because there is popular demand for it. On the flip side, there's usually an underlying reason when that happens, so I wouldn't want dismiss community sentiment out of hand, either.

Thank you for your apt response an deft resolution of my qualms. Here's to perhaps less heated debates in the future eh?

6

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 09:31:41 PM »

Thought I'd drop by here...


I honestly feel like you guys (Portal8229 and MADCATMK3) aren't using the new control scheme to the full extent. Please trust me when I say that it *can* be used very effectively, and with the changes that have been made since the last release, it's more effective still. Whether that's a playstyle you personally enjoy is, of course, another question. The game also needs to do a much better job of explaining the control scheme - and it will (already does in the dev build).

I'm also a little confused by all the references to the AI frigates running off to die. They just don't do that, if anything, they are extremely survivable. Interceptors and fighters occasionally *do* do that, that's a known issue and can/will be fixed.

Maybe you're not creating any "Assault" or "Defend" assignments? I'd recommend doing that - one "Assault" and a few "Captures" at the start of a battle is a good rule of thumb. It keeps the fleet more cohesive.


I'm getting the impression that you simply want RTS controls and want to play the game as an RTS, and anything else short of precise control won't be satisfactory for you. The trouble is that RTS-like precision and obedience is not compatible with an AI that's fun to fight against when you're directly controlling your ship.

So, if you have RTS controls, you get either 1) frustrating RTS controls because the AI doesn't obey your commands the way it does in a normal RTS, or 2) AI that's dumb as a box of rocks and no fun to fight against while you're actually piloting your ship. That's the essence of why RTS controls had to go, and that's the reason they're not coming back. Well, actually, there are more reasons - but this is a very important one.

I do also want to add that the game is not advertised as an RTS, and isn't one. It's a blend of several genres, and the mechanics of those genres have to be adjusted to work well together. I understand that may be a turnof to a genre purist, but it's absolutely unavoidable.



As a side note - or, really, as the main note, the way this thread has been going - guys, please be nice. Or at least civil - name calling doesn't help make a point.

Finally...
Alright I'll concede, and I'll keep playing because its just that good. I hope it pans out the way you want it, I hope that more people like this control scheme. Maybe it'll grow on me. It just doesn't click right now and its frustrating. I hope I haven't caused too much of an issue for you.

7

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 09:24:06 PM »

I'd love the progression part, I love starting out small and working my way up that almost any real RPG. I'm saying why is the control scheme setup to limit you in the first place, why is that arbitrary limitation needed? I don't want to play endgame content you assumptious fool. I want to be able to not have the game fight me as I try to manage my fleet in combat that is all. Jesus, just because I use sarchasm and disagree with you doesn't make me a troll. You remind me of those people that can't wait to label someone or something that's different from them negatively just because its different.

I shouldn't, but I apologize in advance to many people, including Alex and the moderators. Weren't you yourself labeling the game's controls negatively just because it's different from what you are comfortable with?

Right now, that's hard given most missions...  Right now, that's hard given most missions... Right now, that's hard given most missions...

You are correct there, that's damn near impossible. Also Madcat was saying in real life, with human minds not AI, I haven't seen a drone get a medal yet.

I think that's where you're starting the miss the point. Think of these other ships AS human minds and not AI. It's called immersion. Yes, they aren't really sentient beings in the screen, but open your mind to the game and immerse yourself in it and picture them as such... thus, they will act will with some will of their own.

Touche' for the first part...tou-***-che'. Well if these "humans" keep making the game really frustrating to play then it really wasn't worth it.

8

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 09:19:49 PM »

But I can do that maybe what 10 times on average. What if I want a specific ship to move to a point in space of my choosing. Can't do that. What if I want to select a group of ships to all attack one ship, and I don't mean "Harass" either I mean keep firing till you or it is dead.

It's my understanding that in the full iteration of the game you will be able to build your character to have many many command points if you choose, simulating a very competent commander adept at issuing many orders.  I also read that more detailed orders will be coming as well; harass won't be the only option in that regard.

If you look at it another way, it makes a lot more sense that a lowly freighter pilot has fewer command points than a fleet admiral, rather than having both of them issuing the same amount of orders.  It simulates the difference in command competency and experience between the two.  In the full game, you'll be able to build that fleet admiral if you want, and have far more command points at your disposal.

When you say command points this is what comes to mind, "Please insert 25 cents to continue this call." There is no logical explanation for "command points" at all, its purely a superficial game element to put a limit on the artificial order system that conveys little command to the user. Just because you advance in the persistent story, doesn't mean you can't yell through the radio as much as you like.

Put yourself in the shoes of the person you'd be yelling at. If they're yelling, "Go here!" "No! Now here!" "Attack!" "Retreat!" "Turn around and attack!" in the span of a few minutes, I know I'd throw my hands up and yell back saying, "You know what's best, then fly your shuttle over here, take command and do it yourself!" Which is 100% possible in the current system.

It's going to be an environment that I hope will have the feel of being unique... not 100% of what I order them to be. To me that's the draw of the game, but it's not for everyone.

I can't be drawn by getting a bad roll and thus I fail. That's just game-breaking.

9

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 09:14:55 PM »

So I’m supposed to hope the AI will beat the enemy AI? In real combat, officers are real and don’t need to be told how not to die. But with current tech we can never have AI that can think like real people.  There is a reason why guns jamming are rarely put in games its all luck. Having the computer decide if you win does not go by MY definition of fun.

In the same respect, officers don't fire and control each individual in their unit like puppets... there's a reason there are medals that are given to people for going 'above and beyond the call of duty' because someone decided there was something else that needed to be done... even when they're sometimes ordered not to.

Oh, and if you are afraid of leaving things entirely to the AI to beat the AI... then throw your flagship into the fight and directly influence it's outcome. Right now, that's hard given most missions... but I think in the main campaign, you'll be able to pick your fights better and really outfit your own flagship to be able to handle that much better. As the old saying goes, "If you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself!" And I don't mean by playing God with ships on a tactical screen, but by throwing yourself into the mix. I think that's the intention of the current system.

Right now, that's hard given most missions...  Right now, that's hard given most missions... Right now, that's hard given most missions...

You are correct there, that's damn near impossible. Also Madcat was saying in real life, with human minds not AI, I haven't seen a drone get a medal yet.

10

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 09:10:45 PM »

Also: Theoretically, from what I can tell, with the right perks, you'll be able to go around with a single fleet as opposed to building an empire, but have a huge number of command points (correllating to a large number of direct commands), meaning that depending on how you build your character, you can quickly steer in the direction of 'small scale, high micromanagement'. Its also possible to go in the complete opposite direction.

So I have to earn the ability to play in a fashion that's enjoyable, and even then only halfway so. Alright sounds fair enough /sarchasm. I want to build an empire, and micromanage it and the fleet combat.

YES! Now you have to be trolling, you mean you want all the features of the endgame, without any of the work?? You remind me of those people in MMO's that are angry because they can't play endgame content.

Clearly this is not your game. I recommend sword of the stars, that seems to have everything you want(you can micromanage right down to where you ships target).

I'd love the progression part, I love starting out small and working my way up that almost any real RPG. I'm saying why is the control scheme setup to limit you in the first place, why is that arbitrary limitation needed? I don't want to play endgame content you assumptious fool. I want to be able to not have the game fight me as I try to manage my fleet in combat that is all. Jesus, just because I use sarchasm and disagree with you doesn't make me a troll. You remind me of those people that can't wait to label someone or something that's different from them negatively just because its different.

11

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 09:04:59 PM »

But I can do that maybe what 10 times on average. What if I want a specific ship to move to a point in space of my choosing. Can't do that. What if I want to select a group of ships to all attack one ship, and I don't mean "Harass" either I mean keep firing till you or it is dead.

It's my understanding that in the full iteration of the game you will be able to build your character to have many many command points if you choose, simulating a very competent commander adept at issuing many orders.  I also read that more detailed orders will be coming as well; harass won't be the only option in that regard.

If you look at it another way, it makes a lot more sense that a lowly freighter pilot has fewer command points than a fleet admiral, rather than having both of them issuing the same amount of orders.  It simulates the difference in command competency and experience between the two.  In the full game, you'll be able to build that fleet admiral if you want, and have far more command points at your disposal.

When you say command points this is what comes to mind, "Please insert 25 cents to continue this call." There is no logical explanation for "command points" at all, its purely a superficial game element to put a limit on the artificial order system that conveys little command to the user. Just because you advance in the persistent story, doesn't mean you can't yell through the radio as much as you like.

12

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 08:57:49 PM »

I'm more than competent enough to direct all of my ships, I don't appreciate the A.I. deciding who should escort who, or who should capture or any higher level choices beyond combat A.I. Unless the A.I. can read my mind in .5 then its still going to make decision on how to do things its own fancy way, which often gets it killed.

You can assign individual units to do individual things; you can determine exactly who does what if you want to spend the command points on it.  If you don't want a certain ship to capture a point, you can tell it not to via cancel assignment, and you can assign whatever unit you want to that objective.  That's what you're looking for right, or am I misunderstanding you?

Or you could drag a box and hit Ctrl-# 1-9 and have plenty of custom groups that you could adjust on the fly.

But I can do that maybe what 10 times on average. What if I want a specific ship to move to a point in space of my choosing. Can't do that. What if I want to select a group of ships to all attack one ship, and I don't mean "Harass" either I mean keep firing till you or it is dead.

well... on the larger ships there is a command better than harass(don't remember the exact term off the top of my head, clearly not playing enough).

I'll admit that the selecting groups of ships(or rather lack thereof) is a bit painful, but I'm sure something like control groups will be added(or "squads), as that would only add to the realism imo.

13

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 08:52:35 PM »

Also: Theoretically, from what I can tell, with the right perks, you'll be able to go around with a single fleet as opposed to building an empire, but have a huge number of command points (correllating to a large number of direct commands), meaning that depending on how you build your character, you can quickly steer in the direction of 'small scale, high micromanagement'. Its also possible to go in the complete opposite direction.

So I have to earn the ability to play in a fashion that's enjoyable, and even then only halfway so. Alright sounds fair enough /sarchasm. I want to build an empire, and micromanage it and the fleet combat.

14

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 08:50:20 PM »

I'm more than competent enough to direct all of my ships, I don't appreciate the A.I. deciding who should escort who, or who should capture or any higher level choices beyond combat A.I. Unless the A.I. can read my mind in .5 then its still going to make decision on how to do things its own fancy way, which often gets it killed.

You can assign individual units to do individual things; you can determine exactly who does what if you want to spend the command points on it.  If you don't want a certain ship to capture a point, you can tell it not to via cancel assignment, and you can assign whatever unit you want to that objective.  That's what you're looking for right, or am I misunderstanding you?

But I can do that maybe what 10 times on average. What if I want a specific ship to move to a point in space of my choosing. Can't do that. What if I want to select a group of ships to all attack one ship, and I don't mean "Harass" either I mean keep firing till you or it is dead.

15

General Discussion / Re: Ship Control Needs Improvement

« on: January 19, 2012, 08:40:44 PM »

I disagree that the fleet controls are cumbersome.  I think perhaps you were just expecting a traditional RTS system, but that's not what the creator had in mind here.  The system as is works very well (baring certain decisions that the ai makes in carrying out those orders, most of which are apparently fixed in .5), and also serves to abstractly simulate the competence of the officer giving the orders.  I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE not having to micro my entire fleet while controlling my ship.  If you give orders well, the AI is quite competent in carrying them out.  In my experience with the alpha so far, (I have at least 85% or higher on all the missions other than that one with the civilian ships) I have not encountered a situation where I was wishing for direct, traditional rts controls because the AI was capable of doing what I told it to through a system that enabled me to feel like I was giving orders from my command ship, rather than microing units in a game.  I think the best approach is to continue to refine and expand on the current system, rather than turn it into the usual right click-> move, right click-> attack rts style.

I'm more than competent enough to direct all of my ships, I don't appreciate the A.I. deciding who should escort who, or who should capture or any higher level choices beyond combat A.I. Unless the A.I. can read my mind in .5 then its still going to make decision on how to do things its own fancy way, which often gets it killed.