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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Personal Contacts (08/13/20)

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Messages - DownTheDrain

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1
Announcements / Re: Starsector 0.8a (In Development) Patch Notes
« on: January 13, 2017, 09:37:15 AM »
When determining how far away the release is, would you estimate it using days, weeks, or months?

Millennia.

2
Blog Posts / Re: Skill Overhaul
« on: December 17, 2016, 08:25:47 PM »
Didn't Alex clearly state that the reason why the cap was introduced was to make early game choices more significant? I'm not sure why you guys are so focused on the grinding aspect.

That's a different argument altogether but I wasn't arguing with Alex or questioning his reasons for the change.
Megas said that he liked the hard cap because "it puts a limit to compulsive grinding done by perfectionists" and since then the discussion evolved around me trying to figure out why he feels that is an improvement or why he even cares how others enjoy the game.

That said, sorry for derailing the thread, I'll drop it now.

3
Blog Posts / Re: Skill Overhaul
« on: December 17, 2016, 07:54:59 PM »
Since it is strictly singleplayer the amount of time someone else spends grinding has zero influence on your enjoyment of the game.
That is not the issue.  The issue is to stop excessive grinding for whatever reason, even if the player may enjoy grinding itself or grudgingly tolerates grinding as a means to the end he wants (usually power).

The issue is to stop excessive grinding even if the player enjoys that?
So in other words the main goal is making certain players have less fun for no particular reason?

Care to explain why that would be in any way desirable?

@DownTheDrain
I hope you know Megas is a bit ... eccentric when it comes to how he plays his games.  Most of the time he plays it so vastly differently from the rest of us that we just kinda set him aside.

I don't know him but I'm starting to regret getting involved in this argument.

Quite frankly, I really don't care how eccentric he is or how differently he plays.
What I find hard to tolerate is trying to limit how other players are allowed to enjoy the game even though it doesn't affect me or him in the slightest.

4
Blog Posts / Re: Skill Overhaul
« on: December 17, 2016, 07:37:23 PM »
Sure, but it varies from player to player, depending how much time can be spared.  Some might spend lots of time, maybe too much, and get lots of power.  Some may not spend enough time to get the expected level of power.

That might be an issue if Starsector was a PvP-driven multiplayer game.
Since it is strictly singleplayer the amount of time someone else spends grinding has zero influence on your enjoyment of the game.

You might as well argue for an arbitrary hard cap on money or resources because some people don't have as much time to amass an in-game fortune.

edit:
I replied before you edited.

Quote
The main benefit for hard cap is the game making upper limit of power obvious and to stop excessive grinding.  Without caps, some may choose to grind excessively willingly... or compulsively (the latter not unlike addiction).

Stopping excessive grinding is not a benefit in any regard, unless the grinding was mandatory to enjoy the game before.
And compulsive grinding as an addiction (if that is actually a thing) won't be cured by Starsector introducing a hard cap. I mean really, let's be reasonable here and not grasp at straws for the sake of making an argument.

5
Blog Posts / Re: Skill Overhaul
« on: December 17, 2016, 07:30:47 PM »
@ DownTheDrain:
The game may be the sandbox, but your character may not necessarily be a demigod with unlimited potential.  Human is still human, not an immortal god of war.

That's... an extremely odd way of reasoning. I don't even know how to properly respond to that.
Considering my character still needs to take a ship into combat and can't just float through space on his own while melting enemies with mind-beams or some such, I'd argue that he is very much human and not "an immortal god of war".

Not to mention that your argument would eliminate about 98% of all RPGs and possibly the entire genre.
My point is your character may not be superhuman enough to have unlimited power potential that is attainable with sufficiently long grinding or training.  (Sorry, you are not the one (Neo)!  You are not Son Goku!)  This would be represented by a hard cap that will be reached late enough in the game.

Admittedly, in Starsector, your character is special.  He can respawn like a lich!  He can scuttle his last ship at will and respawn in a brand new ship to replace his broken shuttle or to escape being stranding in an uninhabited system.

As for eliminating so-called RPGs, maybe, at least online ones.  I guess it would hurt those that want grinding to keep their servers populated for whatever gain.

I'm still not sure what exactly you're arguing for or what the actual benefit of a hard cap would be.
Surely the player is the one in virtually every single game out there. I mean that's kind of the point of playing, you're the protagonist.
I guess you could argue for a cap for the sake of realism but this isn't really the game for that.

As for "so-called" RPGs, online or other, if players truly enjoy grinding then why deprive them of it?
More importantly, why remove it from Starsector as long as it's not mandatory to succeed?

6
Blog Posts / Re: Skill Overhaul
« on: December 17, 2016, 07:09:07 PM »
@ DownTheDrain:
The game may be the sandbox, but your character may not necessarily be a demigod with unlimited potential.  Human is still human, not an immortal god of war.

That's... an extremely odd way of reasoning. I don't even know how to properly respond to that.
Considering my character still needs to take a ship into combat and can't just float through space on his own while melting enemies with mind-beams or some such, I'd argue that he is very much human and not "an immortal god of war".

Not to mention that your argument would eliminate about 98% of all RPGs and possibly the entire genre.

7
Blog Posts / Re: Skill Overhaul
« on: December 17, 2016, 06:51:32 PM »
I like the hard cap.  It puts a limit to compulsive grinding done by perfectionists who think no such thing as too much power (or do not feel perfect without having everything).  For people who are hardcore and have lots of free time, their level cap may be much higher than someone who is casual or who (may be hardcore but) cannot afford the time to grind characters.  It is nice (and possibly refreshing these days) for a game to say "You played enough! You have enough power!  Beat the game with what you have and play something else or get a life!"

I strongly disagree with that sentiment, especially the part about any game telling the player to "play something else or get a life".
Obviously the game shouldn't be balanced around endless grinding, but I see no harm in allowing it in a sandbox game.

8
Modding / Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« on: December 17, 2016, 04:18:00 PM »
Please, show me a finished IP mod for Starsector. Just one, currently updated, functional, and with similar complexity and polish compared to, say, SRA.

I'm not saying all IP mods for all games are made by terrible second-rate modders. But it does seem telling that all the ones for this one have, at the very least, been abandoned quickly when they got to a playable state at all.

Fair enough, but Starsector, as much as I like it, is very much on the fringe even when it comes to its own genre.
I'm fairly certain that you could do an excellent Warhammer mod for it for instance, and there have been plenty of those for other titles, but the game is too niche to attract anyone capable and willing to do so.

So yeah, I'm not trying to take anything away from our modders but using Starsector as an example for how bad IP mods compare to original ones seems hardly accurate.

9
Discussions / Re: Anyone seen Rogue 1 yet? opinions?
« on: December 17, 2016, 04:06:51 PM »
I was very happy for the sale to disney because Lucas was unfit to continue (and the original movies had co-directors who shot down the majority of his terrible *** anyways).

Reminds me of the scathing reviews of the prequels (by Red Letter Media I think) in which they go into what the original Star Wars might have been if Lucas had had complete creative control back then.

10
Modding / Re: Modability of Starsector versus that of Skyrim?
« on: December 17, 2016, 04:00:04 PM »
I would argue the biggest problem with modding is that most potential modders are undisciplined, lazy, or lack relevant skills and the ability to learn them. That's why people start and then abandon IP mods; if they had the ability to finish them, they would have original ideas and the ability to execute those.

Easy there.
While that may apply to some modders many simply choose an already established IP because they love the setting/story/characters or want to pay homage.
I remember playing Distant Worlds exclusively with the Mass Effect mod for quite a while because it was the closest I could get to an actual Mass Effect strategy game (which I would buy in an instant if anybody ever developed one).

11
Blog Posts / Re: Skill Overhaul
« on: December 17, 2016, 03:40:27 PM »
Interesting.

I'm very much in favor of making fleet combat more attractive but I'm not sure the planned changes are the best way to do so. Electronic Warfare sounds particularly rough and in combination with Coordinated Maneuvers it may actually have the opposite effect. When facing a considerably larger enemy fleet a skilled player would probably be able to work around the range and speed limits but the AI not so much, so unless I'm on a somewhat equal footing I might be better off not bringing any allies to the fight.
It also seems like it would make hard battles even harder and easy battles even easier. I guess we'll see how it plays out. If it's strictly about the number of ships and not the total tonnage then frigate spam may become the new early to mid game meta.
Keeping aptitude only as a balancing tool sounds a bit odd as well, but I understand the reasoning. Still, in a perfect world...

Anyway, for the most part the new system looks pretty good.

12
General Discussion / Re: This is just too much.
« on: December 02, 2016, 11:55:19 AM »
If nothing else, this lovely little thread is wonderful amusement to go with my morning coffee.

Well, I'm glad I amuse you.
I especially like the dismissive tone, the complaint about wild assumptions when your OP was nothing but, and the fact that you accuse me of misquoting and taking things out of context when you couldn't be bothered to quote at all and attribute arguments to me that I never made.

Good talk.

13
General Discussion / Re: This is just too much.
« on: December 02, 2016, 03:55:01 AM »
This thread really ought to be locked. I can't see it going anywhere good from here.

Why should it be locked?

Admittedly the OP lost the plot halfway through his rant (Derek Smart? Really?) but the replies have been perfectly civil.
In fact most replies were outright positive and supportive.
A single abusive poster dropping unrelated insults should only get that poster warned (which apparently happened), not the entire thread locked.

Of course you could argue that everything worth saying has already been said, but this isn't exactly the first time this topic came up, nor will it be the last, so you might as well keep this open and let people reply here instead of starting a new thread yet again.



As Soren so politely said on Discord, "You took a *** on the forum and nobody liked the smell." Interesting how most seem to have some smart ass remark attacking me, instead of using solid reasoning to dispute any of what i posted. Yes, perfectly civil. A few actually took the time to at least show me some sort shred of decency and come up with some solid points, which was nice. Not most however.

I don't frequent the Discord server so I have no idea what people may or may not have said to you there, I was clearly referring to the thread only.
You conveniently seem to forget that people did address your points, some even agreed. In fact the very first reply you got, from a forum veteran, started out with "It's been like this for many years now, but I don't blame you for feeling that way."
As far as I can tell only a single poster attacked you personally and promptly received a warning for it.

As for disputing your points, that would be a lot easier if your OP was more of a reasonable assertion and less of an angry rant.
Let me highlight a few claims that made it impossible for me to take you seriously.

Quote
another cash grab
A cash grab that loses money? Running for 5+ years? On a fairly obscure forum that only hardcore fans of the genre are likely to even find?

Quote
the hype train has just blown by it with little fan fare
...
given how little thought or effort is put into marketing this game
So now it's a cash grab past its hype that isn't even properly advertised?
You do know that a cash grab, by its very definition, relies on exploiting hype to make quick money, right?

Quote
Battlecruiser 3000AD would be a good comparison, along with Derek Smart.
This is the point where you lost anyone that was still taking this at face value.
Battlecruiser 3000AD was an unplayable mess even long after release, whereas Starsector may be in development forever but is perfectly playable and without major bugs.
Comparing Derek Smart, who is infamous for his attitude and for telling his own customers to go eff themselves, with Alex, one of the nicest and most responsive devs I have ever met, is beyond comical. That's just absurd.

Quote
If I were Fractal, at this point, I would release what is there and done and move on to the next version.
So you'd advise to drop this before completion and release an unfinished game? In other words, you'd want them to pull a belated cash grab?
At this point I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing for anymore.

Look, I can understand that you're angry. Frankly, I'm somewhat annoyed as well and I haven't even been following the development for all that long compared to many other guys here. I completely agree that new versions are taking far too long and that it would probably be more advisable to release smaller incremental updates instead of building anticipation for an entire year. I also agree that this is most likely not a very good way to keep a steady cash flow going, especially since Alex has admitted himself that funding the development of the game loses him money.

Unfortunately your OP is framed in a way that makes it impossible to agree with you even though I share some of your concerns. You heaped up so many accusations, insults and demonstrably false claims that I'm rather surprised how level-headed the majority of replies have been.
So yeah, some of your points are valid in my opinion, but the way you worded them is not. If you think I lack decency for pointing that out then so be it.

14
Good point.
More atmospheric music for different parts of the game would certainly be welcome, especially since the existing music is really nice and fitting.

I doubt it'll be for this update though, otherwise we would've probably heard about it by now.

15
General Discussion / Re: This is just too much.
« on: December 01, 2016, 02:10:25 PM »
This thread really ought to be locked. I can't see it going anywhere good from here.

Why should it be locked?

Admittedly the OP lost the plot halfway through his rant (Derek Smart? Really?) but the replies have been perfectly civil.
In fact most replies were outright positive and supportive.
A single abusive poster dropping unrelated insults should only get that poster warned (which apparently happened), not the entire thread locked.

Of course you could argue that everything worth saying has already been said, but this isn't exactly the first time this topic came up, nor will it be the last, so you might as well keep this open and let people reply here instead of starting a new thread yet again.


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