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Messages - calvin1211

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1
General Discussion / Re: Which ship do you think is the ugliest?
« on: April 21, 2020, 08:13:57 AM »
Allow me to second the Drover for ugliest ship; I have nothing against the concept of a box filled with fighters, but the way the Drover is laid out just looks off, like there's not enough space in the rear half for all the fighter storage and maintenance facilities and the bridge and the engines and storage and crew quarters etc, especially with the entire front half taken up by the oversized launch/recovery platform. It's particularly bad in the very middle, where the hangar roof is drawn back even more and the engine greeble pipes extend forward.

2
Discussions / Re: functional ship class definitions
« on: April 21, 2020, 07:58:58 AM »
I think you need to look into just how much armor those things carried. The Con tower had as much forward-facing armor as the turrets themselves and was quite well protected. They were also designed so that no single direct strike could criple fire control(early models included 2 fire control towers which were also armored). To take out all fire control on an Iowa you would have to hit it from multiple vectors several times. Additionally, early upgrades gave each turret its own fire control radar and equipment. Hell if you went and used a 1980s Iowa they also carried CWIS batteries.

Modern missiles are absolutely terrible at penetrating thick armor since no one on the planet uses thick armor as a defense anymore. Most modern missiles striking an Iowa turret would just cause a fuel-related fire at worst because the missile itself would be incapable of detonating at its programmed depth. All contact detonation warheads currently in use would barely scuff the paint and would not cause spalling. Even HEAT rounds are not designed to penetrate armor that thick and would be ineffective. Could you easily design a modern missile that would go through 450+mm of armor like a hot knife through butter? Yes. In weeks if not hours. They don't exist in the current arsenals, however. This is predominately why Russia had a fit when the Iowas were modernized in the 1980s. If you coated a Burke in Chobham or some other modern metal-ceramic material they would be massively more immune to current arsenals. They would lose any possibility of outmaneuvering an enemy ship and cost an absurd amount more. Being able to take hits doesn't do you any good when you cant maneuver to avoid taking said hits hence the current "armor light speed is life" doctrine.

Mission killing an Iowa would take an absurd amount of ordnance... all while in range of guns that have the effective throw weight of a car being shot out of a cannon and surprisingly good accuracy to boot.

Of course, this does ignore that Burke can just lob a tactical nuke for funzies.
The conning tower armour only protects a hilariously tiny portion of the superstructure, namely a compartment in the bridge containing basic steering and nav equipment. (This is why it can get so thick; it's only a small portion, hence cheap mass-wise). Actual important stuff like the lenses for rangefinders and the radars themselves are all unarmoured or only given minimal splinter protection, because armour plate blocks EM radiation and consequently they can't be placed behind armour and still work. Same applies for the turrets; lenses, radars etc still stick outside the armour protection and are thus vulnerable.

I also wouldn't count out fire either; jet fuel fires are ridiculously dangerous and hard to put out, especially in the confined spaces on a ship where space and supplies are harshly limited and there are nicely flammable things like fuel and ammo stored. Most of the British losses in the Falklands came from jet fuel fires just burning ships down to the waterline, and those were relatively dinky Exocets; by the 1980s the Russians were starting to field the SS-N-19/P-700 with warhead alone larger than an entire Exocet or Harpoon missile. In size and speed(and thus resultant kinetic energy) it's pretty comparable to the 800mm shot of Schwerer Gustav, and is specifically designed to spew leftover jet fuel onto its target with the warhead behind the engine and fuel tanks.

3
Discussions / Re: functional ship class definitions
« on: April 18, 2020, 08:54:09 AM »
Yep, that's exactly it. A battleship with no fire control is one that's stuck in a yard for a few months getting replacements.

4
Discussions / Re: functional ship class definitions
« on: April 18, 2020, 03:24:42 AM »
It also bears mentioning that armor of older hulls was all around greater than most people realize.
To a civilian a modern-day Arleigh Burke would be a safe bet against an Iowa class yet in a practical fight it is unlikely the destroyer would be able to sink or even disable the Iowa(the converse would also be true). Design with armor can make absolutely astounding feats of engineering. When you see or hear a story about a ship that dies in one hit its generally a "shooting the golden rivet" event or a design/user error.

There were many examples in WW2 of ships quite figuratively shot to pieces(some with holes large enough to drive a car though) that were returned to active service(sometimes even with field repairs!)

Also fun fact... A modern missile is actually a terrible weapon to use against WW2 era ships as its intended target is the polar opposite of what existed back then. While you would score nearly 100% hits on targets the armor profiles of a WW2 naval ship would negate much of the advantages of a modern warhead. So in the earlier case of the Destroyer vs Battleship example you'd really be down to the destroyer trying to torp the battleship or a long-ranged gun duel where the destroyer prays it doesn't get smacked by a car weight of metal shell.

This isn't entirely true. Wile the main engine rooms and magazines on a battleship are likely too well protected, battleships are also reliant on their gun director optics and radars on the superstructure, and those cannot be armoured, and are further vulnerable to blast shock on top of that. Dumping missiles into the superstructure will still render a battleship (mostly) impotent. There's even been instances of battleships knocking themselves out with the blast from their own main guns.

5
Discussions / Re: functional ship class definitions
« on: April 17, 2020, 12:43:49 AM »
Ship classifications are based off size not because of some arbitary sci-fi or military history trope. Form follows function, and size is as much a part of form as anything else. The requirements of roles force ship design into certain size categories, and thus you can tell a ship's rough role and capabilities by its size.
-----
Mahan identified the fundamental theories that dictated naval combat in history. The gist of it was that splitting your navy up into smaller squadrons and  spreading them about was dooming them to get gobbled up one by one in a repeated defeat-in-detail. Hence, the optimal strategy was to blob your entire navy up into one big doomstack, which would inevitably get thrown at your foe's doom blob in one big decisive battle. The loser of that battle would be out of ships, and since ships would require literal years to build replacements would emerge from the yards one at a time and get mobbed. The winner was free to do as he pleased, and has basically won the war at the point. To win the war, you thus had to win that battle at all costs.
The ship required for that battle thus required big guns and big defences, to brawl it out with best of the enemy navy and win; it also needed a large operational range, to make it to your opponent's home ports and ram your victory down their politician's throats once the navy was dealt with, and so needed large stores of provisions. These demands all converged to the same solution: build BIG. Take advantage of economies of scale to concentrate as much power as possible into a single location. Such a big ship demanded a big investment of resources and capital, hence the term Capital ship. In the age of sail this would be the ship-of-the-line, mounting 70-100+ guns on a large hull with maneuverability a secondary concern. While the first ironclads were based directly on frigate designs this was very much their intended role, and thus competitive pressures kept them growing bigger and bigger until they became the "line-of-battle-ship" AKA battleship of the WW1/WW2 period.

But Mahanian theory is also wrong, or to be more precise incomplete. Navies also have to protect marine trade and protect coastlines. Expecting capital ships to spread out and patrol this wide expanse of coastline is folly, and goes against their intended purpose. Instead another class of ships is needed. Cheap to make and operate, so that many can be bought to cover large areas; nimble and manuverable and possessed of enough speed to run down merchantmen (but no more, because speed is expensive); and needing little gun or protection, just enough to intimidate merchants into compliance and scare off pirates. Going small covered the needs while keeping cost to a minimum. It meant low operational range, but these patrol vessels didn't need to go far beyond coastal waters. These are your corvettes, sloops, cutters, brigs etc, the naval equivalent of a garrison force. Modern days see ocean-going patrol vessels of a few hundred tons, and anti-submarine and anti-air requirements for convoy escort bump up mass even further to produce what in WW2 were also called "frigates, "destroyer escorts", "kaibokan" etc depending on what service you belonged to, but the patrol role remains in its demand for small, cheap, wide-spread ships.

This also leaves open another niche to be fulfilled. Distrupting your foe's shipping is tempting, and overmatching the patrol ships is relatively easy with a modest increase in size which also allows you to load the provisions you need to get to your foe's waters and hit their merchants. At the same time, you don't want to go too big; you'll need a lot of these ships that will have to spread out and operate on their own to effectively hunt merchants, you need to outmaneuver the inevitable retaliatory capital ship doomblob (since it'll be operating on its own, trying to outfight them at a hefty numerical disadvantage will never work), and if the worst happens, operating far from support or reinforcements in the enemy's backyard, it'll be cheaper to replace. Also relevant are a variety of other roles, such as protecting your merchants or other secondary targets from your foe's own raiders, bulking up distant colonial garrisons on the cheap, or scouting and conducting harassment to support the main fleet; tasks that require something bigger than a small patrol ship but not rating the attention of the full battleline. Thus does design of these ships converge to a medium-sized vessel, larger and longer-ranged and more dangerous than patrol ships, but smaller and faster and cheaper than the capital ship. Frigates filled this role in the age of sail, and with steam power came their descendants in the cruisers. The battlecruiser is also part of this lineage, caused by cruiser-on-cruiser competition forcing them to grow bigger to outmatch each other.


6
General Discussion / Re: 40K influence
« on: May 05, 2013, 05:56:34 AM »
The way Games Workshop are about their IP, I wouldn't even mention the 'W' word ^^
The one thing you should never mention about WH40K is the squats, because then GW will sen

7
On an unrelated note, it's been bugging me that the Cerulean has its side missile launchers haphazardly slapped on top of the antenna arrays.
So I made this for you guys:


8
I'd like to point out the fact that not all of the TD ships were made by jwa8402. The Cerulean is actually one of mine. (http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5915)

For the record, I'm perfectly fine with you people using my ships. (I'm personally considering rebuilding that ship to fit with the weapons loadout that it has in the mod) I'm just miffed that no-one asked me before using it.

9
Mods / Re: Blackrock Drive Yards - First version release!
« on: August 30, 2012, 07:03:04 AM »
IIRC the BDY ships were in the BSF metagame 1. Though I've never seen the Sachumodo before.
And damm, Cyc, these are really good. The editing makes them fit really well into Starfarer's art style.

10
Spriting:
Spoiler
Now, spriting(Drawing ships or weapons mainly) can be as simple or as complex as you like, it just depends on;
A) The tools you use
B) The complexity of the ship/weapon you wish to make
C) How many you want to make

Many people of the community(As far as I am aware), Do one of two things.
They either use the Battleships Forever ship editor to help create detailed or simple designs(Depending on the amount of time you wish to spend working on it) Or they "Kitbash" various different parts for individual ships together in order to make a whole new ship. Personally, I'd start off with the ship editor first, its more user friendly(That i have found).
This can be found here and is included with the game:
http://www.wyrdysm.com/games.php
It is free, so no worries there!
I recommend you download and install some "parts packs" though, as it helps make your ships more complex and eye-appealing. A good one that contains a large amount from the forums is this one:
http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5764
It's easy to install and very good to use.

1) Now startup BF ShipMaker, you will see something like this

2) Go to Tools->Group arrange. This will pop up screen like this

As you see there is 4 group of parts, to switch between them you have to press ~ and use 1\2\3\4 keys for every group respectfully. But mine work flow goes around arranging needed parts in first group, and using rest three as storage for possibly usefull parts. So initially drag and drop all not used parts in first group to fourth group, just because they look bogus and we can use it only for getting some silhouette.
3) Look closely for sets of parts that you downloaded, and choose which one you like and will use in your ship. After this just drag and drop them from folder to a groups 2-4 in Ship Maker. There is pretty much unlimited storage, but it can become really complicated to orient in them if there is too much parts, as it shows only in rows by 3, and to scroll it up and down you have to use only mouses scroll wheel, which is pain in the ass.
You can multiply select parts in groups, by using Shift+click between two parts, to select everything in between. And to delete the parts that you dont need\dont like, select them\it and press delete. To move multyple parts between groups, select and just drag and drop them in different group.
4) Now drag and drop ,parts from 2-4 groups, that you gonna use in your ship to first group. Close Group Arrange window by pressing Esc, and lets start constructing our ship.
5) Now press Z to open your groups parts scroll window at side of your screen, now as you click part, its instantly goes for constructing, look for a place where you want it and using J I K L and Shift+ J I K L, position it as you want, and click to place it.
Now choose colour for it from palette to the left. First three colours will transfer their parameters to a parts which coloured by them even if you change it, so use them to define base colours of your ship. Rest 9 colours will just colour part in to their colour but not change it if you change palettes colour. To change colour right click over colour.
Now press M to mirror your part. It will mirror every unic part, so if your building non symmetric ship, dont use it.
And use A and Q keys to define "Depth" of part. Depth goes from 1 to N, where N is number of used parts and define order of parts. So part with Depth of 4 will show over parts with depth 5+ but will be under parts with depth 1 2 3.
Depth designated by parenting. Core of ship is always 0 depth, and will be UNDER every further parts. Next part will be 1 and 2 depth after mirroring, but we probably will need some depth storage for possible artistic parts over our "core" so instantly make em 5 and 6 depth. Now choose one of our first parts and place new part, it will be depth 3 because Depth 1 and 2 are taken by her parenting and mirrored parts.

And this way we build our ship little by little.





Go to Tools->Save sprites ini. This will save our current sprite config. I recommend you to to use different sprite configs for different ships\ships series to not discontinue its "style".

6) Now we want to a screenshot of our ship. But this pesky grid is no good for us, so go to tools->Change Background, and use earlier created bitmap where White bears In White Antarctica field in White snowfall chase Pale white Antarctica scientists in all White. Or just just fill some random bmp with white colour. Now its perfectly fine for us and we can screenshot it. Press F11. Press F9 and drag over your ship, to choose what needed to be screenshoted.



Also you can use this Change Background feature to load some ships picture to background and use it as silhouette for creating your ship.

7) Now go to \Battleships Forever\SMScreenshots\ where your screenshot is saved, and open it for example in Adobe Photoshop.

First of all rotate whole image 90* CCW and after use "magic wand" tool to select whole white trash pixels, that we dont need. Inverse selection, so only our precious ship was selected and copy it.

Create new file, which will be sized right for our copied ship, insert our ship and than delete "background" layer. Now you are free to edit as you want, ambient occlusion, radial blue, all this jazz. You want it you do it, i dont. Now save it as PNG. We got our basic sprite of ship.



But Starfarer is counting every pixel for designate how big ship is, and we have to change our ships image size accordingly to size of ship in game. I will use table of sizes from    
Fight For Universe: Sector Xplo http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2091.0 topic:

1 pixel = 1 meter.
* Fighter, approximate long axis is 10~15 meters.
* Bomber, approximate long axis is 20~30 meters.
* Gunship, approximate long axis is 35~50 meters.
* Corvette, approximate long axis is 55~90 meters.
* Frigate, approximate long axis is 100~160 meters.
* Destroyer, approximate long axis is 180~230 meters.
* Cruiser, approximate long axis is 240~340 meters.
* Battlecruiser, approximate long axis is 360~540 meters.
* Battleship, approximate long axis is 560~960 meters.
* Dreadnought, approximate long axis is 1,080~1,860 meters.
* Mothership, approximate long axis is 2,200~5,200 meters.
* Titan, approximate long axis is 8,000~16,000 meters.
* Flagship, approximate long axis is 86,000~126,000 meters.
* Arkship, approximate long axis is 2,240,000~8,860,000 meters.


So with help of your graphical redactor tools, resize your ships images height to an needed size, and voila we have our handmade ship sprite!
If you don't have photoshop, DON'T PANIC! Paint.net is a great piece of free software that allows you to easily and effectively edit your own sprites with some of the features photoshop has
[close]

Taken from my noobs guide to modding starfarer

I do the same kind of thing, but only to make the guide for a ship, then I use Paint or other programs to adapt the shape and colours.

But I also draw them from scratch when I want a challenge :)

When I do the colour, someone on the  forums told me how to add depth, which was to build up layers of gradually lightening shades of colour (I think it was the mod on Antedeveluions, sorry my minds gone blank).
I would love to see a guide on this, I've been meaning to add more depth to my images

I was working on a guide for spriting in BSF. I'll post it in the forums when I'm done (though it'll take a while)

11
Modding / Re: Ship sprite editor
« on: June 21, 2012, 06:21:28 AM »
It should be possible to cut the starfarer ship sprites up and use them as sections in BSF itself.

12
Modding / Re: The Noobs guide to modding starfarer!
« on: June 17, 2012, 02:35:32 AM »
The effects are not in paint or the like. They're all done in shipmaker itself. Colouring is simple to do, just requiring patience to get the exact colours down. The glows are harder but still doable. See:http://www.wyrdysm.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4089&start=0
And yes, I'm from the BSF forums.

13
Modding / Re: The Noobs guide to modding starfarer!
« on: June 16, 2012, 11:12:52 PM »
I did work on some of that stuff, so I could help you guys if you want.

14
Modding / Re: The Noobs guide to modding starfarer!
« on: June 16, 2012, 06:09:40 PM »
Well, I might be interested in doing such stuff.

15
Modding / Re: MOD IDEA = LEGO Battleships Forever Shipbuilder?
« on: June 16, 2012, 01:15:21 AM »
I'm afraid not.

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