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General Discussion / Save-Scumming as Core Game Design?
« on: May 26, 2018, 03:12:56 AM »
Hi,
I've been playing SS on and off for about 2 years now, and I think it's pretty terrific. With that said, one of the issues I've had over time is what I consider to be a somewhat unnatural reliance on save-scumming. Save scumming is defined (by rock-paper-shotgun) as 'Where something happens in a game that you don't like as a result of your actions, and so you load an earlier save for a chance to undo it. '
As a disclaimer, and to quell any doubt in your mind whatsoever - I am not particularly good at starsector. I'm probably pretty bad. If you watched me play, you'd probably be like 'uhg, dude, why are you doing this'. So keep that in the back of your mind as you consider this criticism.
I think that starsector encourages save-scumming by giving the player insufficient routes, options, or tools to avoid complete catastrophe. These catastrophes might take a variety of forms - but the outcome is the same: you lose your entire fleet, and the game essentially ends. I also posted a vaguely similar complaint back in 2015, probably more evidence that the problem exists between keyboard and chair
Now, to my eyes, there's evidence that the developers have given some thought to this already, and that's why we have features such as distress beacon, range indicator (to estimate fuel), hazard warnings around some systems, and even bounty mission indicators that give you a hint if you're strong enough. This is all good stuff, particularly for people like me who would otherwise probably just do stupid stuff. I still think there's room for more improvement, and yes, that's a euphemism for me saying I'd like more hand holding, please.
The #1 way I end up having to Exit -> Continue is because I've entered an engagement that is completely unwinnable. I understand that I have 'Go Dark' to run/hide, and there's supposed to be actual risk otherwise nothing feels like it has a point. However, sometimes you can caught by surprise (enemy flies in off the edge of the screen and engages), and if they're hostile, 99% of the time you can't disengage.
I think it takes a pretty long time to build up a strong combat fleet (see disclaimer above), and so for most of the game, I'm going to be stomped by most moderate sized faction or pirate fleets. If they engage, I have to Quit -> Continue. I'm going to lose my entire fleet. There's no real half-way measure here. I can't bribe my way out, bluff, threaten retaliation via faction, there's no interaction between reputation at all beyond Friend=Disengage: Enemy=Fight. Full retreat to escape a fight usually just results in them immediately re-engaging afterwards, so I might as well just reload now and save the 5 minutes of fleeing (another point of annoyance).
There's not really any good way to gauge how strong a fleet is just by looking at the tiny sprites other than experience. However, due to the fact that the salvage yield of a small fleet is basically nil (maybe you get 5 supplies, 2 metal, w/e), I feel a real pressure to try to attack strong or borderline too-strong opponents just to get enough loot to continue affording my supplies/fuel.
To wrap up this post, here are some things that I think could help players like me:
- More options to avoid engagements that interact with other game mechanics (reputation, money/bribes, missions, and so on)
- Easier ways to gauge the relative strength of a fleet without having to get to the 'engagement' screen (at which point it's too late)
- Changes that make fleeing/retreating more of a real option, or even the ability to surrender (at some substantial cost)
Thanks for reading!
I've been playing SS on and off for about 2 years now, and I think it's pretty terrific. With that said, one of the issues I've had over time is what I consider to be a somewhat unnatural reliance on save-scumming. Save scumming is defined (by rock-paper-shotgun) as 'Where something happens in a game that you don't like as a result of your actions, and so you load an earlier save for a chance to undo it. '
As a disclaimer, and to quell any doubt in your mind whatsoever - I am not particularly good at starsector. I'm probably pretty bad. If you watched me play, you'd probably be like 'uhg, dude, why are you doing this'. So keep that in the back of your mind as you consider this criticism.
I think that starsector encourages save-scumming by giving the player insufficient routes, options, or tools to avoid complete catastrophe. These catastrophes might take a variety of forms - but the outcome is the same: you lose your entire fleet, and the game essentially ends. I also posted a vaguely similar complaint back in 2015, probably more evidence that the problem exists between keyboard and chair
Now, to my eyes, there's evidence that the developers have given some thought to this already, and that's why we have features such as distress beacon, range indicator (to estimate fuel), hazard warnings around some systems, and even bounty mission indicators that give you a hint if you're strong enough. This is all good stuff, particularly for people like me who would otherwise probably just do stupid stuff. I still think there's room for more improvement, and yes, that's a euphemism for me saying I'd like more hand holding, please.
The #1 way I end up having to Exit -> Continue is because I've entered an engagement that is completely unwinnable. I understand that I have 'Go Dark' to run/hide, and there's supposed to be actual risk otherwise nothing feels like it has a point. However, sometimes you can caught by surprise (enemy flies in off the edge of the screen and engages), and if they're hostile, 99% of the time you can't disengage.
I think it takes a pretty long time to build up a strong combat fleet (see disclaimer above), and so for most of the game, I'm going to be stomped by most moderate sized faction or pirate fleets. If they engage, I have to Quit -> Continue. I'm going to lose my entire fleet. There's no real half-way measure here. I can't bribe my way out, bluff, threaten retaliation via faction, there's no interaction between reputation at all beyond Friend=Disengage: Enemy=Fight. Full retreat to escape a fight usually just results in them immediately re-engaging afterwards, so I might as well just reload now and save the 5 minutes of fleeing (another point of annoyance).
There's not really any good way to gauge how strong a fleet is just by looking at the tiny sprites other than experience. However, due to the fact that the salvage yield of a small fleet is basically nil (maybe you get 5 supplies, 2 metal, w/e), I feel a real pressure to try to attack strong or borderline too-strong opponents just to get enough loot to continue affording my supplies/fuel.
To wrap up this post, here are some things that I think could help players like me:
- More options to avoid engagements that interact with other game mechanics (reputation, money/bribes, missions, and so on)
- Easier ways to gauge the relative strength of a fleet without having to get to the 'engagement' screen (at which point it's too late)
- Changes that make fleeing/retreating more of a real option, or even the ability to surrender (at some substantial cost)
Thanks for reading!