You can't and you're not supposed to be able to profit from non-shortage trade. Standard repeatable trade runs are boring. But if they're in the game people will do them even if they're boring. The only solution is to make them non-profitable and force people to do the stuff that isn't boring.
A side note about waiting for conditions to worsen: either you'll get a notice the conditions are worsening or you'l get a notification for a relief fleet. If you get the notification for relief fleet sell your food unless you're willing to wait for a second food shortage later, and hope they don't get a relief fleet.If you are lucky, an enemy fleet (pirates or Tri-Tachyon) can intercept the Luddite relief fleet. In my last sale, a pirate fleet took out the relief fleet just when I was about to leave Askonia. I backtracked immediately and hauled food from Volturn (my other food stash) to Sindria and sold enough food for level up once from 58 to 59.
To respond in general: I'm aware of the current shortcomings :) I think it'll work better once more events and variety are in the mix, and perhaps some other mechanics to guide things along (say, a monthly fee based on quantity for storage?)
And tariff adjustments based on the prosperity of the colony? Or just randomized tariffs all around between 10% and 30%?
And tariff adjustments based on the prosperity of the colony? Or just randomized tariffs all around between 10% and 30%?
Tariffs are the wall that guard normal trade from being profitable. Screwing around with it might open up holes in that wall, which players can abuse. Imagine trade being about just finding markets with low tariffs and then establishing regular trade between them. That would reduce the idea behind the whole even based trade to absurdity.
The only way in which lower tariffs would make sense to me is as another kind of time-limited event.
A 60% tax is pretty freaking brutal. Prices are already so similar most of the time that it's not really going to change anything to have a lower tariff.
(say, a monthly fee based on quantity for storage?)Might start visiting Corvus more often to dump spare ships and weapons at the free abandoned station (which I hope we can fix and renovate into something bigger), and store only commodities (like food) that can be sold at station for mass profit during an event.
Selling huge quantity of stuff to black market is (usually) not worth the even larger reputation hit. I can sell a stack of fuel of less than 1000 (which pirates often need), and lose about 20 reputation with the non-pirate factions. Chump change compared to selling thousands of some commodity elsewhere during a shortage, even with the tariff.
A 60% tax is pretty freaking brutal. Prices are already so similar most of the time that it's not really going to change anything to have a lower tariff.Yes, a 60% tax is fairly brutal. Good thing we don't actually have a 60% tax most of the time in the game, then, isn't it?
If you drop the lower tariff, trading becomes profitable (before accounting for shipping costs) at about 1.429 times the purchase cost of the goods, as opposed to becoming profitable at roughly 1.857 times the purchase cost, which means it would be considerably easier to make regular trade runs while not running at a loss, though this seems to run counter to Alex's intentions for the game. I think that the "it's not really going to change anything" is more with regards to the current prices of commodities than to anything else, as buying goods at 20 credits and selling them at 40 currently gives a net profit before shipping expenses of 2 credits per unit; with the removal of the export tariff, that would jump to 8 credits per unit, which is considerably better but still small change by comparison to trading food at shortage prices (buying food at 50 credits per unit and selling at 200 credits per unit gives a net profit before shipping expenses of 75 credits per unit on the open market, and those are not exactly the best prices I've ever seen for food; if the export tariff is dropped in this scenario, the net profit before shipping expenses becomes 90 credits per unit).A 60% tax is pretty freaking brutal. Prices are already so similar most of the time that it's not really going to change anything to have a lower tariff.If it would not change anything, why would you want it?
On the topic of trade, smuggling seems to be nearly impossible in the long run. My first play through of the update I was running drugs and other illegal goods under the nose of the Sindrian Diktat until my rep was low enough for the black market to not trade with me. Afterward I tried to find another faction that would tolerate my trading with no luck. I don't understand why the black market would shut out one of their biggest suppliers because their government doesn't like me.The Black Market might not shut you out, but the docking authority would, assuming that the docking authority is relatively clean.
On the topic of trade, smuggling seems to be nearly impossible in the long run. My first play through of the update I was running drugs and other illegal goods under the nose of the Sindrian Diktat until my rep was low enough for the black market to not trade with me. Afterward I tried to find another faction that would tolerate my trading with no luck. I don't understand why the black market would shut out one of their biggest suppliers because their government doesn't like me.The Black Market might not shut you out, but the docking authority would, assuming that the docking authority is relatively clean.
I'm sort of questioning if this is actually smuggling though. It *does* destabilize the worlds you deliver to a bit, and so I like to roam the whole map to give worlds a rest, but it's not really *smuggling* if I never have to use stealth, and my path to a higher profit is to have bigger cargo holds (and bigger ships) rather than finding sweet deals on highly illegal goods, and sneaking them past the fuzz. The "legitimate business" method of evading most of the reputation hit is great though, and I think it should stay (but be explained to players in-game somehow)."Using stealth" is not a requirement of smuggling. Transporting goods in a manner which violates the local customs laws is, and since you do not pay the tariffs on the goods you trade on the black market, there's a very good chance that those goods are transported into or out of the country illegally. I would also suggest that using any of the freighters with the Shielded Cargo Holds hullmod is an attempt at smuggling, as it is an attempt to conceal the type and value of the cargo from customs inspections by local patrol vessels. The goods in question do not even need to be illegal in nature, merely imported or exported improperly.
There are tolls and tarifs at same time, just imagine that someone ask you payment in order to enter some a shop, still charge money for goods in shop and then ask payment for leaving shop with goods you just purchased.Welcome to Crapsack World, Starsector edition.
Kickback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickback_(bribery))
...
In some cases, the kickback takes the form of a "cut of the action," and can be so well known as to be common knowledge—and even become part of a nation's culture. For example, in Indonesia, President Suharto was publicly known as "Mr. Twenty-Five Percent" because he required that all major contracts throughout the nation provide him with 25 percent of the income before he would approve the contract.
There are tolls and tarifs at same time, just imagine that someone ask you payment in order to enter some a shop, still charge money for goods in shop and then ask payment for leaving shop with goods you just purchased.Fun, perhaps not. Illogical, though? Not significantly more so than the real-world model it's based upon. The purchase of goods for export can be taxed at the point of origin and assessed import duties at the destination. Depending upon the way in which the goods are shipped, there may be tolls of one form or another applied, and there may be docking and loading or unloading fees assessed at the ports. Those goods can then potentially be taxed at least once more in the country of destination if they are sold by a retailer or in some other transaction. Property taxes are repeatedly assessed on the same item every year (common examples include houses and cars). Sales tax can be applied at the point of purchase and the purchaser may then be assessed a use tax in his or her state of residence if they bring the item(s) purchased back to their home state. Many localities are becoming interested in the way in which purchases made over the internet should be handled, and at least in the US there is proposed federal legislation making it legal for localities to apply the local tax code to purchases made by the residents of that locality over the internet. Some types of goods, such as tobacco and alcohol, may be subject to several different at the point of sale or at different stages in their production and distribution.
Taking money 3 times for same item as result...logical - no, fun - no, allow different actions - single time per run, then you will be banned for smuggling....
There is still the 4th skill row unused, i think it will be industrial related stuff once it hits the game. Why not make trade skills?
On a side note, the game really needs to make it clear during play that ambulance chasing is the preferred form of trade - I've seen a good number of complaints here and elsewhere about how "trading doesn't work", and it took me a while of bumbling around making a loss and experimenting with trade routes myself before the idea of pouring everything I had into hunting down shortages finally clicked. An outright tutorial window explaining things, or possibly just an early event with a passing trader moaning about how hard it is for small trader to make a buck these days?
I would definitely prefer a legit (rather than gamed) economy which is designed to put people off trade when trade (both legal and illegal) should be available to players - legal trade should be lower profit and risk but still a decent way to make ISK (did I say ISK I meant generic money).Holy Necromancy batman!
Some players will prefer the steadier (less risky) profits - some will prefer to have to dodge every blip on their radar - I appreciate Alex may prefer one or the other but he's making this game for others to enjoy.
I would definitely prefer a legit (rather than gamed) economy which is designed to put people off trade when trade (both legal and illegal) should be available to players - legal trade should be lower profit and risk but still a decent way to make ISK (did I say ISK I meant generic money).Holy Necromancy batman!
Some players will prefer the steadier (less risky) profits - some will prefer to have to dodge every blip on their radar - I appreciate Alex may prefer one or the other but he's making this game for others to enjoy.