Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: celestis on May 26, 2014, 11:08:35 AM

Title: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on May 26, 2014, 11:08:35 AM
(http://oi58.tinypic.com/11hrxo2.jpg)
Hello All!
Here I present the EVE Online mod for Starsector. A lot of improvements have been made since the first version, making the mod much more solid.
The mod is a total conversion, so don't look for vanilla stuff and don't try to integrate with other mods.

Working with v0.65.2a (RC2)
Current build: 6 (2.3) (22 February 2015).
Requires LazyLib (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=5444.0)
Download (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9314q960uvg9aqx/evemod_2.3.7z?dl=0)

What does the mod have in its current state:

Campaign map:
Spoiler
(http://s18.postimg.org/87w4dynzt/map_3.png) (http://postimage.org/)
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Talking about ships, systems, hullmods and weapons, I tried to make the game correlated with EVE universe as much as possible. This means, that you can generally apply the EVE rules here: blasters for short range and high damage, Amarr having bonuses for lasers, Gallente focusing on drone swarms, Heron quite useless in rough combat, etc.

Ship hull types:
Spoiler
  • Fighters [Fighter size]: nuff said - ships coming out of the carrier deck. Note, that in this mod fighters are EXPENSIVE and almost useless without a carrier support. But a single fighter is just a bit less powerful than a frigate.
  • Frigates [Frigate size]: often even smaller than vanilla frigates, these tiny ships have incredible speed and mostly close-range weapons. Hit and run. Stealth bombers also belond to frigate size.
  • Destroyers [Destroyer size]: being much bigger than a frigate, they are easier to hit, and lack defence capabilities. Though, they carry tons of light weapons, making them specialized frigate-killers.
  • Cruisers [Destroyer size]: the main strike force of a small fleet. There are plenty of them around, so these ships are very versatile. Make them super-tanked of fast enough to catch a frigate.
  • Battlecruisers [Cruiser size]: more powerful and protected version of cruisers. And slower too. Biggest their problem is low vent rate, so watch the flux level. These are mostly useful in large fleets.
  • Battleships [Cruiser size]: these beasts usually carry stockpiles of heavy weapons and have excellent armour and shields, but they lack light armament and are an easy prey for a couple of frigates, which are fast enough to evade battleship main caliber.
  • Carriers [Cruiser/Capital size]: the same as in vanilla - a support base for fighters, having tons of hitpoints. In EVE there are no light carriers, so expect these ships to be quite an end-game stuff - they are the most expensive vessels in current version of the mod. Later, logistics capabilities will be added.
  • Dreadnoughts[Capital size]: currently the only capital combat ships. These are true behemonts of the battlefield with powerful "siege mode" system, allowing to fire at incredible distances with powered-up weapons. But they are almost useless without escort: swarm of small ships will easily deal with them.
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Ships:
Spoiler
Full size (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nq256s4991p9y6j/ships_22.png?dl=1)
(http://www.dropbox.com/s/hc7m6g90rdjbpft/ships_22_small.png?dl=1)
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Special systems/weapons:

Introduction of these systems/weapons makes the gameplay quite different from vanilla, so do not underestimate these little helpers.

Screenshots:
Spoiler
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/2iutbx4.jpg)
(http://oi60.tinypic.com/25rebd4.jpg)
(http://oi60.tinypic.com/34pj9qu.jpg)
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/1zgss4i.jpg)
(http://oi58.tinypic.com/2115uzd.jpg)
(http://oi60.tinypic.com/2d13iib.jpg)
(https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/StarsectorEveMod/screenshot009.png?_subject_uid=103772466&w=AADvPRhYuCoCNrmSX4uMTzxSjKnYIKktl6jPNU1e30T1og)
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Changelog for last build (2.3):
Spoiler
  • Added new star system Y-4CFK
  • Added Guristas Pirates and Mordu's Legion
  • New ships: Garmur, Orthus, Barghest + skinned ships for Guristas. Some of the skinned ones changed ship system and are quite different from the original ones.
  • Fixed problems with bounties by adding comm relays in every system. Bounties are no longer offered by minor factions.
  • Angel Cartel and Guristas will trade while hostile, just like the pirates.
  • Greatly reduced number of asteroids, should have positive impact on performance.
  • Weapons rebalance (again). Ballistic guns now reload in clips and regenerate ammo.
  • Reduced number of drones for small ships (1 at a time for under-cruiser ships).
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What is planned for next major release:
Spoiler
  • Sleepers, W-space exploration
  • Serpentis factions
  • Tracking disruptor, sensor dampener
  • Convert EWAR and other utility systems to weapons and make them interchangeable. This depends on the implementation of my suggestion though.
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What is planned, but might be not soon to come:
Spoiler
  • EoM, ORE, Jovians
  • T3 cruisers, but I don't promise :)
  • Blueprints and production
  • Skills redesign

If you would like to see some of these (or other) things in the next release, please post your opinion - I will adjust priorities.
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What is NOT planned:
Spoiler
  • I have no intention to introduce every single ship. Mostly this is because it is difficult to specify a role for them. Also Oracle and Myrmidon will not be added because they look ugly from top :-)
  • The same about the weapons. Hullmods, damage type and mount type classification together give pretty various configuration possibilities. Though I suppose I will add a bit more weapons in future.
  • Realistic economy: though trading in Starsector is very simplified, while EVE is a vast self-regulated economy, I'm not going to make things complicated here. Really, admit that it's a different game.
  • Solar system security status and CONCORD: I don't think that it will be fun having whole star systems without battles. And it is difficult to implement, too.
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Copyright:
Spoiler
I prepared ship and weapon sprites, but they are a render of original EVE content, and thus remain the property of CCP. Commercial use of this content is not allowed. This copyright notice should be displayed, if you are going to use the images somewhere else.

Here is the message from CCP support, kinda giving the permission to use all the stuff in the non-commercial mod (here the talk is about the fansite, but this is because the official rules are described only for them, the idea is more general):
 Your mod would not qualify as a fansite. However, you can consider the following rule to apply to the mod:

"Non-commercial sites may use content and resources from the official EVE Online website under the condition that the copyright notice below is displayed prominently on each page where those items appear. When using materials or content that was originally published elsewhere, proper credit must be given to the original author and used only by permission. When using content, including forum posts or blog entries, from the official EVE Online site, please include the name of the contributor and a link to the post or location of the content you're using."
To sum up: free to use for non-commercial purposes.
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Kudos
First, thanks to CCP, who allowed to use their wonderful art and to introduce their universe in a mod!
Also, though I'm rather new to this forum, I have received plenty of help from answers to my dumb questions)
Apart from that:
-partly the code for target painter (EnderNerdcore),
-hard flux beams script (Debido and Xenoargh)
-game creation options in rules.csv (akeean)
-some sounds from freesound.org
Hope, the authors do not object. So, thank you guys!
And the developers of Starsector, of course, your game is awesome =)

Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: haloguy1 on May 26, 2014, 12:37:46 PM
My god what do we have here eve mod that is awesome going to check it out soon.

EDIT. I just finished my game session and i have to say your mod is awesome but at the beginning there is little fleets to kill.
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on May 26, 2014, 08:38:30 PM
Glad you liked it!
As for small fleets, there are some solo ships for Mercenaries (spawn in empire) and Pirates. Also, you can try to beat supply convoys: they look a bit big, but usually consist of 2-3 harmless industrials and a couple of frigates.
Or you may just start campaign in "easy" mode and gain a cruiser!
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: xenoargh on May 26, 2014, 08:46:24 PM
Great accomplishment; so glad to see a major new mod here! 

Please credit the people whose code / content you're using by name; we're pretty laid back about these things but that's one of the requirements of stuff in the Code Dump :)
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on May 26, 2014, 08:55:47 PM
Ok, no problem, I think I'll find some time today to mention all that I used.

EDIT: Done. Will add more if I forgot someone
With last update also replaced some external stuff.
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: DornoDiosMio on May 27, 2014, 11:07:36 PM
Always nice to see new mods around here!  I'll be sure to check it out once my current Uomoz game is complete.

Excellent idea to incorporate the Eve universe into a mod as the two IP's likely apply to a similar group.

I used to play Eve, but, eventually I quit as the server latency between my location and CCP just drove me bonkers.  I also lost my best ship while going down stairs for '1 minute' to help with groceries, hehe.

Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Griffinhart on May 28, 2014, 03:56:12 AM
I would like this mod so much more if the ship sprites were properly scaled. It's weird seeing the Hurricane be almost as long as the Machariel.

-- Griffinhart
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on May 28, 2014, 04:04:54 AM
I know that sprites are not scaled properly, but I still have to deal with Starsector scale: I can't make a full-sized dreadnaught without either making all frigates 10x10px or making the dreadnaught so huge that it doesn't fit in the screen. So, that's why the difference between ship hull sizes is intentionally much smaller.
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Blade Skydancer on June 02, 2014, 07:47:03 PM
Well, I've been playing around with this mod for about an hour now, running around with an Omen with 5 heavy pulse lasers and eating things up.

I have a concern, and that's energy-damage weapons being FAR and away more effective than any other weapon type. I started with a Rifter and got my ass handed to me because the AC's HE damage just couldn't get through any shields. I would say make ACs deal kinetic damage, blasters do HE damage, beam lasers do kinetic, and tone down the pulse lasers quite a bit. They're rather ridiculous. Railguns are pretty nasty too.

As for shields, they could stand to be a bit weaker across the board(more inefficient), and I'd probably make them all 360 degree shields. After all, shields protected all angles in EVE, though I understand this is a different game. At least give those ships designed to be shield tanks(most Caldari, some Minmatar, ect) omni shields.

Rockets should be non-tracking(no turning speed), and regular missiles track *very* aggressively, could probably tone that down some.

Also, ships should be more frequently sold in the stations of the factions. Not quite sure how to make that work as I never quite got the hang of populating stations in the middle of a game. At the least right now, make 2 of every ship class for a given faction available on a faction's home station, with a handful of fighter wings at the start of the game.

At any rate, I'm having fun with the mod so far.

EDIT: The fighters are WAY too big right now...I think. Dunno how big fighter craft are in EVE, but I'm pretty sure they're not bigger than frigates.
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: JDCollie on June 04, 2014, 08:40:42 AM
I can drive a Megathron in Starsector. My life is now complete.
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: snull on June 05, 2014, 11:24:02 PM
Love the Eve Universe - even though, I dont have the time to play it - moreover thanks for the feeling of that mod added and the beautifully ships I missed,

heyho +1

;-)
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on June 06, 2014, 01:02:38 PM
Blade Skydancer, thanks for such detailed suggestions, I was already thinking about some rebalancing, especially about beams. I think I will nerf all weapons except ACs, so that they become more equal. During several campaign plays I also found that lasers and rails are much superior to other weapons. Not sure about damage type suggestions still, but I will experiment to find out what is better.
As for shields, I don't think making all of them 360deg will be fun. Currently, Caldari & Minmatar have slightly better shield effectiveness and have OMNI. All frigates have FRONT. But I agree that it's better to make some ships dedicated shield tanks, like Drake, giving them that 360 coverage, and that the shield should be overall less powerful.
About rockets: well, missiles were the most difficult thing to fit in the mod due to their "support" role in Starsector. I first made rockets unguided, but you know, it was really impossible to hit a frigate with them (and they are mostly anti-frigate in EVE), so I decided to add turning speed. And actually in EVE rockets maneuver very intensively (visually). I'll think about reducing their dps/range though.
The stations now are divided by:
a) faction (you won't find minmatar ships on gallente station). There are Trade Hubs also, which have plenty of everything. Supply convoys often deliver stuff to the hubs, because they are friendly to everyone.
b) category (NAVY or common). NAVY stations have all available ship kinds. Common stations have only light ships. All major factions have a one of each kind in their home system.
Perhaps, I will rework the system a bit in the future.
And yeah, I fully agree about fighter, will make them smaller.
Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Blade Skydancer on June 07, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
More thoughts.

Remembering the way beam lasers behaved, they were on for a short while then faded. Perhaps you should make them that way in the mod. Longer duration than the pulse lasers, and more damage per individual shot, but much slower than the pulse lasers. Also, beam lasers are kind of worthless compared to pulses. Blasters need far more damage as well.

As for range, it's currently only very slight differences. Beam lasers and missiles should have the longest range, given the nature of those weapons(one being a beam of light which has theoretically infinite range, and the other being a self-propelled projectile whose range is only limited by the amount of fuel. Railguns next longest range, then a drop off to artillery. Then, for the DPS weapons, pulse lasers, then autocannons, then finally blasters.
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Griffinhart on July 06, 2014, 08:59:20 AM
Blade Skydancer, thanks for such detailed suggestions, I was already thinking about some rebalancing, especially about beams. I think I will nerf all weapons except ACs, so that they become more equal. During several campaign plays I also found that lasers and rails are much superior to other weapons.

Keep in mind that, in Starsector, range is king, swiftly (heh) followed by speed. If you've got long range and high speed, you can kill everything and can't be killed by anything. All other numbers are irrelevant (as long as you can deal enough damage to surmount your target's flux-dissipation, but that's a fairly low bar).

-- Griffinhart
Title: Re: [0.6.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 15, 2014, 10:33:26 AM
I'm glad to present the update for 0.65.1a! This is not just a compatibility patch: a lot of stuff was added to the mod and the experience should be quite different from the previous version. See the OP for more info. I did my best to integrate with new huge changes of 0.65, tested most cases, but if you find a bug please post here and I'll try to fix it ASAP.
Enjoy!
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: ssthehunter on November 17, 2014, 04:29:03 PM
Whoo, an update :D
I'll post any issues I find in here.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: HighAsASlothPie on November 17, 2014, 08:52:32 PM
Noticed an issue with the expanded cargoholds hullmod, it adds +40 cargo not the +40% stated and I'm unsure if the capacitor power relay works either, is it active or passive flux vent bonus?
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 18, 2014, 07:09:11 AM
HighAsASlothPie, thanks for reporting, I'll fix the cargo bonus. As for cap power relay it affects only active vent rate.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: TartarusMkII on November 18, 2014, 09:26:56 AM
Hello Celestis, I can't wait to try your mod! I will be a bit torn between vanilla + mods and your total conversion, but I love EVE, and will be sure to give this a try and lend my feed back! Thanks for your hard work!

Also, question: Does anyone know where the save files are? I want to be able to swap them in and out so I can play both modded vanilla and this total conversion. Thanks!

My feedback so far:

I feel like the illegal commodities of each faction does not quite make sense. For example, if anyone were to ban hand weapons, I would assume it would be the corporate feudal Caldari.

I am confused about why all weapons deal energy damage. Oh, they don't, it's just the ballistic guns you start with as a bounty hunter on the Slasher are energy weapons.

It seems like many missile systems generate 1 point of flux each, which is just odd if you ask me. It mine as well be zero if it's just 1 point =P

I like the physics of the missiles, they feel like a good weight for their size/fire rate.

Small ships seem to slip and slide very fast compared to vanilla frigates, but I am not yet sure if that's a good thing or bad thing (IMO).

I can appreciate that many ballistic weapons get very poor accuracy over time, but some weapon placements seem odd to me, such as the rear missile mount on the Stabber which does not pivot.

Personally, so far, I think that light missile systems carry too much ammo. It makes ammo expanding mods and skills pointless.

Some systems are producing wild amounts of commodities, and with flat price increases from trade interference, it's easy to make a lot of money when core worlds are selling food and such for like, 3 or 5 credits a piece, and event-locations are buying for 100+.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: HighAsASlothPie on November 18, 2014, 10:56:40 AM
HighAsASlothPie, thanks for reporting, I'll fix the cargo bonus. As for cap power relay it affects only active vent rate.

Gotcha, thanks for that and as far as the mod goes I'm really loving it. Looking forward to all the bugfixes :P
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Paul on November 20, 2014, 04:46:01 AM
The Wrecker hull has the built in weapons in the wrong slots. The two built ins are in slot 3 and 4 (the turrets). The variant has them in the right slots, but them being wrong in the hull file bugs things out and makes it impossible to add guns to the turret slots.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Leith on November 20, 2014, 11:16:21 AM
Hello, guys! This is my first post on this site and this should tell you something! I really like the mod. Been playing for several hours now, restarting, figuring out the new system and whatnot. I have a question: how do I increase/decrease the global fuel consumption ? Thank you for reading this!
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 21, 2014, 07:13:41 AM
Thanks for your feedback. I uploaded a new version with some updates.
About the issues:
HighAsASlothPie
Quote
Noticed an issue with the expanded cargoholds hullmod, it adds +40 cargo not the +40% stated
- Fixed, also reduced the cargo bonus to 25%

TartarusMkII
Quote
I feel like the illegal commodities of each faction does not quite make sense. For example, if anyone were to ban hand weapons, I would assume it would be the corporate feudal Caldari.
Well, maybe you're right. Made that all empires except Minmatar now ban hand weapons.
Quote
I am confused about why all weapons deal energy damage.
Most weapons are assumed to be versatile, so they deal energy dmg. But all artillery cannons deal HE, beam lasers are E/K and missiles have pretty much any damage type to choose from.
Quote
It seems like many missile systems generate 1 point of flux each, which is just odd if you ask me. It mine as well be zero if it's just 1 point =P
This is needed to prevent zero flux speed boost while shooting. It would be too cheaty if you could do so.
Quote
rear missile mount on the Stabber
Try Heavy Assault Launcher on the rear slot and you will love it.
a) rear slot provides cover if you go retreating
b) trajectory of the missiles will be less "straight", giving you the chance to pass enemy front shields (something like heatseekers)
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Personally, so far, I think that light missile systems carry too much ammo.
Totally agree. Reduced the ammo capacity for almost all weapons, not only missiles.
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Some systems are producing wild amounts of commodities, and with flat price increases from trade interference, it's easy to make a lot of money when core worlds are selling food and such for like, 3 or 5 credits a piece, and event-locations are buying for 100+.
This is sad, but unfortunately there is little I can do about it - this is the way default economy scripts work and it is too difficult to modify it. There are a lot of bugs in vanilla about such stuff, so I suppose we should just wait for the economy system to become more mature...
Paul
Quote
The Wrecker hull has the built in weapons in the wrong slots.
Fixed, thanks for noticing.
Leith
Quote
how do I increase/decrease the global fuel consumption
Don't quite understand the question) Each ship ahs the rate of fuel consumption, you can see it on info popup. Just choose the ships with appropriate rate. In this mod the SOE factions ships tend to have the best rate.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: TartarusMkII on November 21, 2014, 11:11:33 AM
Thanks a lot for the response, Celestis! I am glad I could help.

As for some things like the rear missile turret, I agree that I just needed a little more time with the mod to get a grasp of it.

However, with the commodities, I am not so sure it has to do with vanilla bugs. Not knockin' on your skills of course; but I feel like it is not really the prices that are the problem, but the amount of the commodity. Some core worlds have 25,000+ units of food, and I notice that for example Pator III has the Organics Mining Complex trait, which in vanilla would simply mark this market as creating this resource. But for some reason Pator III has a stock pile of 2595 Organics. It's still a lot less than the 24,999 food it carries, but still a lot more than vanilla.

I am not a coder, so excuse my silliness, but I have read about people getting helped with market issues in other threads- If you haven't already, try asking in one of the child forums to have someone check it out. 'Yer mod is the only that I've seen to have this issue!

I will continue my play through of your mod and continue to give you feed back! Thanks for giving it to me to play with!

EDIT: Is anyone else having this issue with the market? I am wondering if it was actually induced by my use of Lazy's console mod. I had only given myself money, but I wonder if something had happened. Please us know.

Feed back for this version: ( Some are relevant even for the last version ;p ) (Also making sure to note that I am starting a new game after this update.)

You may want to try adding some of the music from EVE into the game. I don't know how to do that, but Kazi of the Mayorate should.

The trader starts with a Sigil indy ship, the bounty hunter a Slasher frigate, but the smuggler starts with a reaper rookie ship? XP

I still cannot figure out how to access anomalies. : Okay, I finally found a ship with the recon hull mod. The anoms look cool so far, and I am enjoying exploring them. I know this is rather specific, but as far as I can tell, I think it'd be great to be limited in your profession by cost, rather than by the availability of ships. But that's you know... market-issues allowing..

Choosing to take high tech weaponry as a bounty hunter gives you a heavy pulse laser, but unlike the equivalent in vanilla, no ship you start with can fit it.

Personally I feel that it's strange that there is not many people to fight (for bounties). I can prey on independent fleets just fine, but it seems almost cheap to do so because they don't really own many stations to care about. I know it does not make sense for EVE's lore, but I'd love for you to consider making systems where Factional Warfare would take place.

I feel like the range of some weapons like ballistics are very short, even if their poor accuracy is justified. I'm still playing around with it though to see what I think. I just wonder if it'd feel better to have weapons like auto cannons fire off tight bursts of shots like they would in EVE, relying on target leading to properly hit, rather than a spray of bullets. But again, not so sure yet. I DO like missiles though.

Also, about the missiles' flux usage I was actually implying that they should use more than zero flux. For example you have made a hull mod for the cap power relay, which increases the vent rate at the expense of shield size. But when do you ever have to vent? Not many weapons generate an appreciable amount of flux so far that I have seen. Also, again I don't know how, but it is possible to make hull abilities (like the webifier) cost flux to use, such as the vanilla phase skimmer ability. If you already use that, I apologize for not noticing! Also it seems like, taking the Slasher as an example, its 3 150mm auto cannons each generate 10 flux per second, but its base dissipation rate is a whopping 300.

I am thinking this is not a vanilla issue: your fringe gates and core gates are swapped in their size. In this mod, the fringe gates are larger in size than the core ones.

It is hard to tell when you can use a Stasis Web and what its target will be. If you use it not in the range of a target, it becomes used and goes on cool down regardless.

I like that the jammer on EWAR frigates can disable all of the weapons on an enemy ship (with similar targeting issues as the webifier), but I don't like that it lasts for a very small time and has a long cool down. I just don't find it to be so useful.

I may have found the root of your eco problem. In vanilla, most planets and stations are one in the same. If you go to a planet, you will access the same market as the station that orbits it, and vice versa. I notice that this is not the case in your mod, and I wonder if having two markets so close together is causing odd trade? And I notice some planets are actually not like this, such as Villore I and the Senate Bureau.

Similar to EVE in actuality, wielding destroyers feels awesome!
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 22, 2014, 05:46:11 AM
Actually current economy stuff is not related to coding: you just specify what a market produces and demands. I played around with this for some time and made it "acceptable", but I know that the issues still exist (when I first launched the mod after adapting to new vanilla release things were MUCH worse). I'll try to figure out the problem.
Good idea about the music, I didn't think about that. Must be because I always switch it off :D
About the smuggler... I don't quite know what ship would be appropriate for this career start. Sigil like the trader? Well, then there's no sense of another branch. Maybe it will be better to give 2 small crafts (not really suitable for battle), so the fleet is "sneaky" enough?
Glad you found a way to use anomalies, probably I should add more hints for the access. You can use one of these recon ships:
(http://s21.postimg.org/6ayxjyown/recons.jpg)
Anomalies are the brand-new feature which is not yet well established in the mod. I didn't add very much for them to see if the players like it. Since you do, I will definitely think more about them for next releases, add more stuff, balance, etc...
Quote
Choosing to take high tech weaponry as a bounty hunter gives you a heavy pulse laser, but unlike the equivalent in vanilla, no ship you start with can fit it.
Well, yeah... But I didn't manage to think of a better idea: currently there are not many weapons out here, so they are almost equal (within same size group). If I add something bigger then it will still be useless until you get a cruiser. And I don't have anything better for the starting Slasher than already mounted autocannons (artillery is crap for a early-game flagship). Probably I'll add more stuff next time and this will cahnge.
Quote
Personally I feel that it's strange that there is not many people to fight (for bounties).
Had the same issue while testing, but couldn't find a fast way to fix it. This is mainly because all factions place bounties, but there are only a few friendly. I mean, if Angel Cartel places bounty for Sansha ships, you will never get it since you are hostile to Cartel... As for factional warfare, I hesitate bringing in more star systems until I fix the economy - that can ruin it even more.
Talking about weapons flux use: it was designed that ballistics (ACs and artillery) and missiles almost don't consume flux. Railguns eat a bit more. But the true flux monsters are lasers and blasters (Apocalypse with tachyons can't sustain fire even with lowered shields).

Quote
I am thinking this is not a vanilla issue: your fringe gates and core gates are swapped in their size. In this mod, the fringe gates are larger in size than the core ones.
Lol, no idea) I used the default autogeneration function for this, no customization...

I thought a lot about the EWAR systems and agree with the range problem you stated. Currently I don't know the way to fix it, but I proposed a suggestion that may help. I though to convert all those systems to special utility weapons (which have a range indicator btw): this will also allow you to choose the EWAR modules to mount. But for that I need the custom mount types, which currently don't exist (so that nothing can be mounted instead of utility weapons and that utility weapons can't be mounted in other slots). Maybe Alex will agree to add this later, we'll see.
As for jammer - it is a bit overpowered even now. Jamming frigates probably are okay, but try a Scorpion: it jamms 2 ships at a time with greater disable chance. It is really easy to fight with such support.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on November 22, 2014, 07:27:38 AM
can't stop playing man! Best mod evah!  ;D

I hope you never give up!


# NBW-GD Trading post, Trade or hire personels (I) is bugged, When I click it game freezes 5 sec then crash to desktop.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 22, 2014, 09:46:57 AM
Damn, I though I fixed that mysterious bug... It used to reproduce every time but I haven't seen it for a long period. I'll investigate this, just try to avoid this market for now.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: TartarusMkII on November 22, 2014, 11:39:13 AM
Thanks again for the reply Celestis;

What is your thoughts on the markets so close together though, being separate for planets and the station that orbits them? Even in the mod as it is now, not all planets work that way anyhow. Some do share the market.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 23, 2014, 09:03:05 AM
I'll remove this "exotic" feature and test if the bugs remain. There was no specific need of that, just mixed things up a bit.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: TartarusMkII on November 23, 2014, 12:27:34 PM
I apologize if my feedback came out too harsh, personally I'd think the idea would work cool too, but it's at least worth checking out, I think.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on November 28, 2014, 11:43:16 AM
Are you gonna add Dreadnought and Titans too? That would be awesome anyway
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 29, 2014, 12:51:00 AM
tokmak333, I plan at least to add dreadnoughts. But at the moment I can't think of a special role for them. Really, battleships in the current version are very powerful and rather slow. Adding more powerful and slower dreadnoghts won't be that cool, you know, nothing special... Battleships can already deal even with toughest capital ships. And heavy support role is already filled by carriers. It would be great if you guys think of some specifics of this ship class applied to Starsector game mechanics, to make things more interesting.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Blade Skydancer on November 29, 2014, 01:35:29 AM
Dreadnoughts should be, in my opinion, impregnable fortresses. While capital-class weapons would cause untold devastation, they would have such long recharge times to make them infeasible to use against much smaller ships. And if you felt like you could, perhaps, even delve into coding, then you could give the Dreadnoughts their Siege Mode ability from EVE as a system. This would double the range(making capital-class missiles, beam lasers and rail guns stretch across the map and make even blasters into modest sniper weapons), add some fraction(probably 25%) to damage, and either double shield efficiency(Caldari, Minmatar) or start an armor regeneration system(Amarr, Minmatar), but at the cost of constantly generating flux and causing the ship to be inable to move or turn.

Also, I still say you should turn the beam lasers into burst weapons, and make the pulse lasers shorter in duration but faster.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Cosmitz on November 29, 2014, 02:30:36 AM
Siege mode gives them longer ranges and maybe reload times on their weapons which only have say 30-60 frontal degrees firing arc but it also locks them in place like it does in Eve, no movement/turning.  Highly situational and easily defeatable unless supported.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on November 30, 2014, 01:13:10 AM
what happend i can't even load up the game once,,, also how do i check the star sector log, i can't seem to find it.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 30, 2014, 02:14:55 AM
nickelknight, seems that you have the old version of the mod. This error existed when the mod wasn't compatible with 0.65.1a, but it was fixed long ago. Ensure that the file you downloaded is named "evemod_2.1.7z".
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 30, 2014, 03:29:12 AM
Started working on dreadnoughts.
Revelation with Siege mode on and off (see range of dual giga pulse lasers):
(http://s13.postimg.org/sgwyjtjkj/screenshot014.png) (http://postimg.org/image/sgwyjtjkj/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/oykynfioj/screenshot015.png) (http://postimg.org/image/oykynfioj/)
and Naglfar (quad 3500mm artillery):
(http://s10.postimg.org/7vqrvl4at/screenshot018.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7vqrvl4at/)

Currently siege module buffs ship flux dissapation rate and weapons (range, RoF, damage) and totally immobilizes ship. It works for about 40 secs and has relatively long cooldown. This makes the dreadnought almost impossible to break while system is active. However, siege weapons are designed so that they are really inefficient without the system (VERY high flux and low range).
I ended up with this slot layout:
- 6x built-in XL siege weapons (made built-in because there is no "XL" slot size - avoid mounting these on BSs). Grouped by 3 on each side, but no frontal arcs
- 2x large frontal slots
- 2x aft medium slots for somewhat cover
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on November 30, 2014, 07:03:40 AM
Started working on dreadnoughts.
Revelation with Siege mode on and off (see range of dual giga pulse lasers):
(http://s13.postimg.org/sgwyjtjkj/screenshot014.png) (http://postimg.org/image/sgwyjtjkj/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/oykynfioj/screenshot015.png) (http://postimg.org/image/oykynfioj/)
and Naglfar (quad 3500mm artillery):
(http://s10.postimg.org/7vqrvl4at/screenshot018.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7vqrvl4at/)

Currently siege module buffs ship flux dissapation rate and weapons (range, RoF, damage) and totally immobilizes ship. It works for about 40 secs and has relatively long cooldown. This makes the dreadnought almost impossible to break while system is active. However, siege weapons are designed so that they are really inefficient without the system (VERY high flux and low range).
I ended up with this slot layout:
- 6x built-in XL siege weapons (made built-in because there is no "XL" slot size - avoid mounting these on BSs). Grouped by 3 on each side, but no frontal arcs
- 2x large frontal slots
- 2x aft medium slots for somewhat cover


THATS Amazing!!! I hope all beam weapons shooting like pulse weapon (like in eve, have reload sec) example, tachyon beam cannon have constant fire. it keeps firing without reload. ( hope you understand that )
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on November 30, 2014, 12:54:10 PM
nickelknight, seems that you have the old version of the mod. This error existed when the mod wasn't compatible with 0.65.1a, but it was fixed long ago. Ensure that the file you downloaded is named "evemod_2.1.7z".
ok so i did download the newer version... it's weird though becaust i download the file named 2.1.7z and it showed only 2.1 in the name... then when i go to enable the mod it says 2.0
....
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on November 30, 2014, 04:49:57 PM
and the "new" version is that same 2.1 version although its telling me the same thing i have only 1536mb aloted in the .json for the game could it need more data i can't give it more i only have 4gb's in my laptop and 2 of is is reserved for the onboard video card.... so i can for some reason only alot at max 1536mb.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 30, 2014, 07:21:02 PM
Seems that I didn't change the version for the last minor patch. It doesn't matter though, the error should not be shown anyway.
As for memory, I personally have 1024Mb set in vmparams and can run the mod smoothly. I have 64bit JRE though. Do you receive an error because of memory?
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on November 30, 2014, 07:39:46 PM
no, if you look in the picture i originally posted, it says something like missing hull ... minor patch? does that mean i needed the previous version in order to have the full mod? yeah it says the buffalo hull ....
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on November 30, 2014, 07:41:52 PM
Seems that I didn't change the version for the last minor patch. It doesn't matter though, the error should not be shown anyway.
As for memory, I personally have 1024Mb set in vmparams and can run the mod smoothly. I have 64bit JRE though. Do you receive an error because of memory?

ok i looked at the starsector log.... yeah it says it failed to load like 10 different hull specs .... i dunno wtf is going on but i really wanted to try this eve mod since the other big mods are all old or take up too much memory like the vanilla + mod...
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: akeean on November 30, 2014, 10:37:22 PM
Hey,

great Total Conversion!

I used to play EVE way back in the day and this mod has a good feel of balance already.

That said, I hated that you could not really choose your race/starting ship tech in the new game screen, so I've been so quick to edit the rules.csv (see attachment) to enable the player to choose amarr, caldari & gallente paths of trader, smuggler and bounty hunter. Sorry, no Minmatar or Sanshas yet, I just started out toying with SC's files and found the rules not that easy to modify, at least the rules part...

After finishing this I got enough grasp on this to add the Minmatar, but will only do so if asked. Oh, and feel free to package that file with your mod (It's based on the version that's compatible with 0.65.1a), no credit needed, I'm happy to give a little back to you for the considerable work you did here.

Cheers!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on December 01, 2014, 02:18:16 AM
that's nice i did play eve i went with a few different factions because i played multiple times with a few different friends.

but seriously i don't know why it won't work just that it won't load that ship's hull and that is a major problem if your download for the newest version of the mod is not longer working.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: akeean on December 01, 2014, 02:52:20 AM
but seriously i don't know why it won't work just that it won't load that ship's hull and that is a major problem if your download for the newest version of the mod is not longer working.

I'm running the 2.1.7z file (the one from 21.Nov), internal version is 2.0, first ran it with the integrated 32bit jre of starsector, but it crashed out after 2hours usually. Now running it with 64bit jre7 release 72 with 2048m assigned to the jre. It'm running together with the radar mod... no memory problems so far.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on December 01, 2014, 04:10:46 AM
nickelknight, I've already described the error about "buffalo" not found: recently vanilla had a bug that it was still trying to load default skins even for total conversion mods like this one. I didn't release the new version until that was fixed, but now this problem is gone. There must be something wrong with your game/mod versions, because other guys here don't have problems with this. Try deleting the whole mod folder and unzip again... Seriously, I have no clues why you ran into this trouble.

About the memory: the game started to be more "intensive" since last vanilla update (economy eats much), so later (or already) even the mods with no previous troubles with memory might need 64bit runtime... Well, this topic has already been widely discussed on the forum.

akeean, nice, I'll check your file out! Frankly speaking I wasn't very eager to get into the rules csv, but now I have an example from you, thanks =)
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Debido on December 01, 2014, 04:34:38 AM
The memory 'intensive' usage isn't really to do with with the economy at all, the game still uses around 250-300Mb of RAM during normal gameplay on average. The serialization or 'dehydration' and  'rehydration' deserialization process for saved objects using the XStream library when loading/saving a campaign is the culprit for the RAM problems.

Some optimisation to reduce the memory overhead the XStream library requires has been done for the next release candidate for Starsector has realised about a 50% memory saving.

This is not speculation either:
Spoiler
(http://s5.postimg.org/pyr43mvw7/ssmemoryusage.jpg)
[close]

See what I mean?
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on December 01, 2014, 07:36:00 AM
Yeah, I see, the new features just seem to have made my gameplay less smooth, that's why I thought about that.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: akeean on December 01, 2014, 09:57:26 AM
Update:
Enhanced rules.csv drop in replacement for 0.65.1a compatible mod. Contains Minmatar race, additional hard difficulty and balanced&varied career starts. I wanted the player not start out with a cruiser, but have the option to trade his fleet for a single bigger ship right from the start if he really wants a cruiser/destroyer (on easier difficulties). From my experience with the mod (which goes along nicely with eve) it is smart to not upgrade too soon, since running away will be much harder and the more probable loss of the bigger ship will set you back further than you can handle if you upgrade out of your league too soon.

- Traders will start with an industrial and more cash (+a simple frigate on easy)

- Smugglers start with the nimblest fleet, but decent money. (I reduced the rookie ships deployment points in my ship_data.csv to 2, since it gives the player a smaller fleet to sneak into hostile planets... also rookie ships are really crappy, swarming will be not really a problem) this lowers the risk of doing hostile runs, since the loss of a single frigate is a smaller % of the players net value, while the profit of smuggling will offset the smaller hold size compared to an industrial.

- Bounty hunters start with less cash, but 2-3 decent frigates and always have a webber&jammer pair plus a tank, skirmisher or missle boat depending on race so the starts have a slightly different feel between the races.

akeean, nice, I'll check your file out! Frankly speaking I wasn't very eager to get into the rules csv, but now I have an example from you, thanks =)

Let me know if you encounter any bugs, or if you find out the syntax to nest several variable conditions (like $race==amarr&&$carreer==trader) since that would make things way simpler down the tree. Right now it is a bit convoluted...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on December 01, 2014, 10:38:47 AM
but seriously i don't know why it won't work just that it won't load that ship's hull and that is a major problem if your download for the newest version of the mod is not longer working.

I'm running the 2.1.7z file (the one from 21.Nov), internal version is 2.0, first ran it with the integrated 32bit jre of starsector, but it crashed out after 2hours usually. Now running it with 64bit jre7 release 72 with 2048m assigned to the jre. It'm running together with the radar mod... no memory problems so far.

i'm running 64 bit java i've replaced it once and that didn't help but both versions will run the core game or some of the other mods.
but with thee eve mod it just won't load up the game like the initial loading screen cuts out after about 5 seconds of trying to load and well yeah...
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on December 01, 2014, 11:11:35 AM
so now for some reason, it loads about half way threw loading and says fatal: null
so now it's still not loading and it won't even tell me why.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: StevenB on December 01, 2014, 11:17:25 AM
This mod runs well for me, thank you for designing it.

One issue I have is that there tends to be only one faction in each sector. If I want to make money without trading, I have to attack that group as there aren't many enemies. I defeat the group easily and get about 3-4 thousand worth of loot, however, I then cannot trade in that sector, so I have to go to hyperspace to sell the loot. It would make a lot more sense to have multiple warring factions in zones so that you can make an enemy of one and still trade with the other without having to travel in empty space so much.

Great work on the rest of it. Great design, I really like how each sector is planned with the asteroid belt and I really like the sprites.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: akeean on December 01, 2014, 02:28:50 PM
so now for some reason, it loads about half way threw loading and says fatal: null
so now it's still not loading and it won't even tell me why.

1) Are you sure you installed Java 7 JRE? Cause Oracle offers Java 8 JRE as a default (you have to dig a bit to find it... current is Java 7 JRE Update 72)

2) Try running the starfarer.bat in the starsector-core folder. That's the only way it runs for me with 64bit JRE. (it'll keep a CMD window open while running, but that seems to be the only change)
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: nickelknight on December 01, 2014, 03:14:09 PM
hey thanks, i tried running the bat file.... it worked and now i can play it.. SWEET!!!!
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: akeean on December 02, 2014, 09:17:41 AM
akeean, nice, I'll check your file out! Frankly speaking I wasn't very eager to get into the rules csv, but now I have an example from you, thanks =)

I'm curious what you'll make of it. Feel free to build on it, although I think it needs code optimization there is too much repetition. Nested condition would be soo useful, still haven't figured it out tho, since the documentation seems thin for this part. See the v2 version of the rules (further up the thread) for all 4 races and added difficulty options. Starting options are in the second half of the csv (somewhere around line 530 i think)
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: akeean on December 04, 2014, 12:03:29 AM
Following ships don't have their races innert shipsystems build in:

Caldari
- Orca Freighter
- Manticore Stealth Bomber

Gallente
- Cyclops Bomber

Gallente:
- Maulus Frigate
- Imicus Frigate (only comes with recon systems)
- Nemesis Stealth Bomber

Minmatar
- Hound Stealth Bomber
- Tyrfing Bomber

SOE
- Astero (description lists it as exploration ship, but has no recon sys)


Will update this post whenever I see another ship with its subsystems missing.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on December 04, 2014, 10:34:23 AM
Thanks again for your participation, I'll add the missing hullmods (except Orca - it's ORE ship, not Caldari)! I was a bit busy this week, but now I've got some time and plan to release an update this weekend. I'm almost done with dreadnoughts. I used your rules file and changed it a bit - it was of great help, I really appreciate that! What is left before I release a new version is the fix for economy (planet/station factions, probably will fix one unpleasant bug) and some balance stuff.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: akeean on December 06, 2014, 04:35:40 PM
Thanks again for your participation, I'll add the missing hullmods (except Orca - it's ORE ship, not Caldari)!

Amarr Bomber is also missing it's system.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on December 07, 2014, 01:09:31 AM
The 2.2 version is released and ready for download.
As already partly discussed here, the changes include:
Feedback on new functionality is welcome!
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Jonlissla on December 10, 2014, 10:15:16 PM
One issue I have is that there tends to be only one faction in each sector. If I want to make money without trading, I have to attack that group as there aren't many enemies. I defeat the group easily and get about 3-4 thousand worth of loot, however, I then cannot trade in that sector, so I have to go to hyperspace to sell the loot. It would make a lot more sense to have multiple warring factions in zones so that you can make an enemy of one and still trade with the other without having to travel in empty space so much.

I have the same thoughts as well. It's very difficult to increase your reputation if you don't want to rely on trading, and there is surprisingly little combat between the factions. Despite there being plenty of fleets in systems the gameworld feels very static. More invasions would be a welcome addition.

Also, many of the homeworld systems suffer from bad perfomance. Maybe it's the sheer amount of asteroids in the systems, or maybe the immense amount of fleets flying around. Most likely a combination of both. I think you need to tone it down a notch.

Feedback on new functionality is welcome!

I haven't tried the new missions yet but the Dreadnoughts and the new startup options are great. Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on December 11, 2014, 07:56:18 AM
One issue I have is that there tends to be only one faction in each sector. If I want to make money without trading, I have to attack that group as there aren't many enemies. I defeat the group easily and get about 3-4 thousand worth of loot, however, I then cannot trade in that sector, so I have to go to hyperspace to sell the loot. It would make a lot more sense to have multiple warring factions in zones so that you can make an enemy of one and still trade with the other without having to travel in empty space so much.

I have the same thoughts as well. It's very difficult to increase your reputation if you don't want to rely on trading, and there is surprisingly little combat between the factions. Despite there being plenty of fleets in systems the gameworld feels very static. More invasions would be a welcome addition.

Also, many of the homeworld systems suffer from bad perfomance. Maybe it's the sheer amount of asteroids in the systems, or maybe the immense amount of fleets flying around. Most likely a combination of both. I think you need to tone it down a notch.

Feedback on new functionality is welcome!

I haven't tried the new missions yet but the Dreadnoughts and the new startup options are great. Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
Yeah, massive amounts of asteroids and fleets WILL slow down a system
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on December 24, 2014, 12:12:12 PM
Quote
Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
Well, I also lack the affiliation with other factions while playing, I intend to add more customization options when I add guristas and mordu's legion.
Quote
Yeah, massive amounts of asteroids and fleets WILL slow down a system
Thanks for a hint, I'll check that and remove extra asteroids if needed (as far as I got that each asteroid is a separate sprite, so that's not suprising).

[WIP] I've also got somehting really special here for you, hope you will like that. Here is...
TENGU!
Yeah, it IS modular.
(http://s11.postimg.org/50zndm5ur/wip.png)
Well, this is in very early stage of development, but most difficult problems have been ~solved.
There are still many engine limitations that I didn't manage to overcome yet, maybe some other modders will help me with my questions and I'll solve them too.
The screenshot shows a single ship, just changed variant in mission editor. Ship has original T3 subsystems as hullmods divided into 5 groups, which can be mounted/removed at will between engagements. They change the ship appearance and later will change bounds polygon too.

Current "troubles":
1) Ship renders on top of projectiles, weapons and engines. Well, that isn't as ugly as it seems to be, it even looks kinda cool when missiles launch from under the hull. But still that may be worse for other strategic cruisers.
2) Weapon mounts are fixed and their position is not affected by the modules. Actually useless to put efforts into this until (1) is solved.
3) No preview in fitting view. This is not likely to have any solution, I will just use a placeholder pre-rendered Tengu image with some warning text about that... Changes will be visible only in combat.

About general design, Strategic Cruisers will have just ~4 weapon slots but they will gain powerful bonuses from subsystems. Player will be able to customize both a all-round ship, super-tanked fortress or an incredibly agile machine of death. The process of getting one in campaign is depending on the recent exploration feature. I plan to release a mission-only version first (with only one cruiser ATM), collect feedback and then work on the rest.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: angrytigerp on December 29, 2014, 08:43:27 AM
I've just gotta say, this mod just FEELS like what EVE would be as a realtime game. Balance seems to largely be the same -- two frigates can easily kite and kill a destroyer, if not a poorly-fitted cruiser. And especially with frigates, it moves so damned fast -- in a good way. While the actual game needs to do the whole dice-roll combat with orbiting at distances, I can imagine frigates darting around with impunity... Unless they get webbed, in which case just like EVE proper, they're toast.

The only thing I've really gotta say regarding this mod is a repeat of mentioning the lack of reputation build-up-ability. Spent maybe 30 minutes in the game, reached like rep 25 with a faction, and that's only through trade -- in the base game and other mods, I live on bounties, but they seem to only be given by the Independent faction. Am I just really unlucky, or is this a known issue of the mod -- that no one gives bounties?
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: Silver Silence on December 30, 2014, 05:22:37 AM
Quote
Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
Well, I also lack the affiliation with other factions while playing, I intend to add more customization options when I add guristas and mordu's legion.
Quote
Yeah, massive amounts of asteroids and fleets WILL slow down a system
Thanks for a hint, I'll check that and remove extra asteroids if needed (as far as I got that each asteroid is a separate sprite, so that's not suprising).

[WIP] I've also got somehting really special here for you, hope you will like that. Here is...
TENGU!
Yeah, it IS modular.
(http://s11.postimg.org/50zndm5ur/wip.png)
Well, this is in very early stage of development, but most difficult problems have been ~solved.
There are still many engine limitations that I didn't manage to overcome yet, maybe some other modders will help me with my questions and I'll solve them too.
The screenshot shows a single ship, just changed variant in mission editor. Ship has original T3 subsystems as hullmods divided into 5 groups, which can be mounted/removed at will between engagements. They change the ship appearance and later will change bounds polygon too.

Current "troubles":
1) Ship renders on top of projectiles, weapons and engines. Well, that isn't as ugly as it seems to be, it even looks kinda cool when missiles launch from under the hull. But still that may be worse for other strategic cruisers.
2) Weapon mounts are fixed and their position is not affected by the modules. Actually useless to put efforts into this until (1) is solved.
3) No preview in fitting view. This is not likely to have any solution, I will just use a placeholder pre-rendered Tengu image with some warning text about that... Changes will be visible only in combat.

About general design, Strategic Cruisers will have just ~4 weapon slots but they will gain powerful bonuses from subsystems. Player will be able to customize both a all-round ship, super-tanked fortress or an incredibly agile machine of death. The process of getting one in campaign is depending on the recent exploration feature. I plan to release a mission-only version first (with only one cruiser ATM), collect feedback and then work on the rest.


Ah, so now I'll be able to build my 60-70km range, 2s reload HM spam mission ship? Gud. Guuud.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on December 30, 2014, 11:29:48 AM
Quote
The only thing I've really gotta say regarding this mod is a repeat of mentioning the lack of reputation build-up-ability. Spent maybe 30 minutes in the game, reached like rep 25 with a faction, and that's only through trade -- in the base game and other mods, I live on bounties, but they seem to only be given by the Independent faction. Am I just really unlucky, or is this a known issue of the mod -- that no one gives bounties?
Partly you are unlucky, because I encountered bounties from different factions. But sad thing is that most of them are hostile to you so much that the bounty bonus is not applied. I don't think I can influence the rules of generating bounties, but I have some thoughts for next releases. Probably I'll add something like insignias loot to exchange for reputation. Or mb just add reputation for fighting faction enemies... Anyway I am going to solve the issue in the future.
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: angrytigerp on December 30, 2014, 08:38:41 PM
All right, so, some constructive criticism.

Dreadnoughts. Just like in EVE itself, they can be quickly and easily whittled away by a determined squadron of smaller ships. No problem, it's just like blobbing in EVE Online, and I've been in so many blobs, I can't count high enough to figure out how much ISK I've lost by being one of the frigates or cruisers being picked off (I'm not a BS kind of guy). That said, as a test, I took the Naglfar (Min Dread) into a sim battle, left it at stock settings, then brought in a Typhoon. Leaving control entirely to the AI, I watched as my dread promisingly took the Typhoon to max flux in the initial "charge at each other" stage, without it getting off a shot. Well and good. But then as soon as Siege Mode dissipated, the Typhoon vented, and moved in to attack. Now, it took about ten minutes, but the vanilla AI still strafed my massive artillery perfectly, and ducked out when Siege Mode went active... until, between shooting and their own potshots, managed to take me to full flux, and then slowly whittle me away.

Now, on one hand, you can argue that this isn't meant to be JUST like EVE; I understand that. On the other hand, you can argue that this fairly easily replicates EVE, as Dreads' weapons aren't really meant to fight anything smaller than other capitals or stations. Both of those said, I think that there's a bit of a middle ground to be found here, as while it's true that the battleship would be receiving glancing blows, its tank would probably be good enough to stay alive if the only thing fighting it were my Dread, one-on-one. But it would not be able to singlehandedly kill me (in EVE), because it would lack either the sustained DPS or the alpha to really deal damage that could break my tank.

What's the solution here? Well, couple things I've thought of.

1.) Give all capitals (Dreads, Carriers, and Moms) a hardwired System that simulates tanking, which is to say, an armor-repairing (does that exist in the code?) one for the armor tanks (Amarr and, if I remember my fits right, Minmatar) and one that increases shield protection value for the shield tanks. The idea here is that it would mean that, just like in EVE, the only way you can actually kill capitals is by either the sustained fire of a large fleet, or the alpha strike of an even larger fleet.

2.) Hand-in-hand with this, increase the raw damage of each Dreadnought's built-in weapons. Yes, I said increase. Because see, the trick then is to counter it with making them track very slowly (about as slowly as they do during their firing/reload phases as in the mod right now). But then these weapons become useless, yes? NOT if you're using them against other Dreadnoughts and capitals! In this way, you would be able to simulate the Dreadnoughts having the raw offensive value to punch through the tanks (as simulated in point 1), but also the fact that unless they happen to be right on the money or incredibly lucky, they can't kill anything smaller than a battleship or so, simply because those things move too fast.

I'm not sure you mean to make the game JUST like EVE, maybe some of this stuff you already knew about/considered and discarded. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks, ya know?

One other thing that might completely throw a wrench in the works is Dreadnoughts against each other. You don't yet have Dreads available in the simulation battles, and as tempted as I am to go into the campaign and grind my way to buying a Dread and then tracking down an enemy fleet with one, I can't really see what it's like right now. Sure, there's the missions with Dreads vs. Dreads, but it's more like fleets vs. fleets, and it would be way too tricky to get the enemy to have nothing left but their Dread, without allowing my own Dread come to harm and keeping my AI fleetmates from doing too much damage to theirs to present a truly accurate one-on-one.

That said, I can anticipate the Dreadnoughts' turning radii playing hell with the weapon changes I propose, as they ARE able to quickly turn and bring their guns to bear -- and since the AI thinks in the sense of "hey, I want THIS weapon to attack THIS target, what's the quickest way to get the enemy in my firing arc?", they'll waste no time twisting around WAY faster than a Dread should. But how do you fix this -- make Dreads turn slowly? Now they can't bring their primary weapons to bear even against other Dreads, because they enter the battle facing perpendicular to their weapon arcs. Not to mention that even I can see where an issue might arise with mobility -- they're already horribly slow, why make it even worse and thus ruin the player's experience?

Ah well, if you want to discuss some points, or even just shoot me down entirely (no worries if that's the case, it's your show and I can't mod for *** myself, so who am I to judge?), you can post here, or PM me if you REALLY hate my feedback and don't want things public.

EDIT: and to clarify, I am well aware that the player can offset these issues and singlehanded lay demolish a fleet by taking manual control, and/or by installing hull mods and having skills. Well, the way I figure, hullmods simulate ultra rare Faction gear, and skills representing having Level 5 across-the-board skills, and thus vanilla-fit ships are all using T1 gear and have no SP -- so no deviation from EVE there!
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on January 05, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
Thanks for your feedback! As for "tank" system for capitals, that is what I thought to add to siege mode, but i thought it would make the dreads insanely difficult to kill for small craft. And btw, the system greatly increases flux dissapation and hence is kinda shield tank (nothing for armor though).
As for damage, I don't feel like increasing it even more. It currently is almost 2x when siege mode active and is enought to quickly kill a cruiser, if hit. And as you said, you shouldn't be able to kill small ships with dreads. But I agree that they needed to have slower turn rate. The "ship turns faster than a gun" is quite okay because ship can't turn in siege mode at all.
My bad, I forgot to add them to simulator. But that's is pretty easy to modify if you really want them, you should just add the variant name in data\campaign\sim_opponents.csv.
Feel free to post any feedback here, whether it is good or bad, I'll try to take everything into account to make the mod better!
Title: Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on February 22, 2015, 02:08:38 AM
Hi again. I finally prepared an update for the mod. I didn't add a lot, but fixed some major issues.
Changes:
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: TartarusMkII on February 22, 2015, 02:15:28 AM
Awesome! Welcome back!
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Azmond on February 27, 2015, 03:00:36 PM
Giving it a look see now and so far, awesome! (I'll be updating this as I go.)

but the first issue I can see is that some of the charcter creation options don't work, or at least one doesn't. At least... I hink it doesn't work... hmm.
either way I'll give ita look see an take screen-shots of things i foind to be buggy on linux. So far it's working great though. :3

rating as of 2/27/15 beause I like having fun :P  : A!
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Delta7 on March 07, 2015, 07:58:02 AM
should call it Eve Offline XD
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Nazaxprime on September 06, 2015, 05:06:33 PM
Just started, and I must say, JOB WELL DONE!
Huzzah, Shipmate!
I'll be back to provide more encouragement/feedback, but so far, so awesome!
In the meantime, thank you for all your hard work, and once I FINALLY get around to implementing my own ships(time has been a premium for years now, but my designs and research always continue), I'll be sure to ask you for some feedback as well.
Until that fated hour, GAME ON! ;D
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Requal on September 19, 2015, 09:42:52 PM
I love EVE Online and still play it since 2003 but I do have some issues with this mod unless its far from finished.
For example the range of the 1400 Artillery should be 1500 at least and the right sound effect to come with that since I mostly fly my Artillery fitted Machariel (havent found this ship in this mod yet) in EVE Online was hoping to at least have some decent artillery sounds and range :D

Next is the scale of the ships.
I know have the scales exactly the same is impossible since fighters would just be 1 pixel if not a subpixel compared to a Super Carrier.
But the Frigates are pretty large compared to the bigger ships.

Also gaining high end ships is too easy most markets offer super carriers and carriers and battleships without any rep involved unless this is supposed to be like this.

Also created a raven with full missiles but the bastard was just flying around didnt shoot a single missile.


Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on September 20, 2015, 04:21:18 AM
Regarding weapon balance, I changed it several times due to some weapons being too OP, like artillery. The mod is not very balanced in general, I admit that. Anyway, you can easily change the values to your liking in the CSVs.
Ship scale. Actually I even mentioned that in the description. SS is bad with very large ships, that should be obvious (partly due to shield being a round bubble, but not only that). It also limits zoom. These are reasons why this mod will not have correctly scaled ships and was never designed to. I found the sizes to be just okay to be fun to play, game mechanics of EVE and SS are jst too different to match everything.
Talking of gaining ships... Yeah, that's not like in vanilla, it's much simpler. I didn't put much effort into this aspect. Not many people play this mod, I assume, and I'm just keeping it updated to the level at which it will run fine on new SS version, there is no real development going on. Mod is more combat-oriented, fly your favorite EVE ships and do pew-pew) There will definitely be a patch for 0.7, so I'll take a look at raven bug there.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Requal on September 20, 2015, 11:33:58 AM
Maybe change EVE frigates to SS Fighter squadrons so the size makes sense.
Or make the frigates smaller if the game only has issues with big ships.
But seeing like a squadron of EVE Frigates would actually be a better idea if I think about it.
Maybe just  scrap the super carrier and carrier so you can scale up battleships cause they seem rather small to me.
Battleships are basically what is most use by the common mission/incursion people in EVE.
Since in EVE almost noone flies a carrier or above anyway.
And trust me this mod has a lot of potential so more people will start playing it if you invest time in the mod.
Since what you have done untill now is pretty good.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on September 21, 2015, 07:10:02 AM
Heh, most fun I had with the mod was flying frigates) These ships usually don't travel in packs of same, they are usually dedicated to different roles.
I currently work on a faction mod, probably I'll take a look at EVE again after it is finished.
But by what I have noticed, total conversions are not usual in SS and people do not really need them. Ironclads is the one most played (adding a lot of cool stuff apart from ships and guns), others did not survive the patches and were abandoned. Someone here is trying to make a Stargate TC, but there's no visible progress currently. So currently there are only 2 TCs vs 23 faction mods. People here much more appreciate the faction mods that add up to the overall vanilla experience and can be switched on/off to ones liking. This makes the game much more diverse than any TC, given the number of people with their own factions.
So that is my humble excuse for abandoning the development ATM =)
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on September 27, 2015, 07:19:48 AM
well, I love this mod but it really needs improvements!

My suggestion is;

1. Resize Frigates/Destroyers/Cruisers/Battlecruisers/Battleships/Dreadnoughts/Carriers/SuperCarriers (BTW: I made that already and it is better)

Drones = 20 Pixel
Fighter/Bomber= 35 Pixel
Frigate =  60 pixel
Destroyer = 140 pixel
Cruiser = 180 pixel
Battlecruiser = 220 pixel
Battleships = 340 ~ 400 pixel
Dreadnoughts = 800~1000 pixel
Carriers = 600 pixel
Super Carriers = 900 ~ 1100 pixel

2. Balance

I think it is possible to make a script like (I dunno how though)
Maybe Built-in Hullmods?

Destroyer;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%15)

Cruiser;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%65)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%50)

Battlecruiser;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%65)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%50)
Damage Penalty Vs Cruisers (%15)
Example:  If  Beam damage is 100 DMG, it will do 50 damage to Destroyer (%50 less damage)

Battleship;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%85)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%70)
Damage Penalty Vs Cruisers (%35)
Damage Penalty Vs Battlecruisers (%15)

Dreadnought
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%98)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%95)
Damage Penalty Vs Cruisers (%85)
Damage Penalty Vs Battlecruisers (%80)
Damage Penalty Vs Battleships (%50)

3. Balance on Ship ArmorPoints/HullPoints/FluxPoints/Turrets

Ships must have same stats with Eve online (If that script is possible)
Ships must have very low Flux dissipation (Especially Caldari,Minmatar ships)
Ships Armor must not have same Armor Points like in EVE, Hull Points works (Add armor points to hull)
Turrets must not get disabled via normal weapons but Jammer

4. More Hullmods/Ordnance Points

There should be more hullmods like 50mm Armor, 100mm Armor also Armor only for Dreadnoughts

Frigate OP = 50
Destroyer OP = 125
Cruiser OP = 250
Battlecruiser OP = 550
Battleship OP = 1350
Dreadnought OP = 2500 (can fit some hullmods like 3200mm armor, X-Large Shields)

5. More Weapons or Tech 2 weapons?

If I remember right, Frigates can use 75mm-125mm-150mm guns.
Tech 2 weapons, more expensive
Ships with Tech 2 weapon variants?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on September 27, 2015, 10:54:54 AM
Well, I can answer most of these suggestions in generally the same way: this mod is not EVE, and it is not meant to be exactly the same or even attempt to be close to it at some points. If you mod a game, you should accept the game mechanics, not try to copy the original just to be "the same".
Now more specific comments:
1. You are probably right. Unfortunately just rescaling the sprites will have penalty on quality, obviously. It will most likely require rendering all that stuff again + adjusting all the slots and bounds - that's a ton of work, I'm not quite eager to do that since this is not the biggest problem with the mod... Anyway, if someone happens to do that I'll include files in the download.
2. These scripts are totally possible, you are right (on per-weapon basis, at least). But it will make it almost impossible to kill a frigate from a BS for example. Yes, you will say "it is just like that in EVE" and that's why I wrote the first paragraph. Currently frigates do quite decent job of reducing the damage by mobility even without these tweaks.  But the scripts seem not to be difficult, maybe I'll make them for the test and add a config switch to turn them on/off. But this will definitely require total rebalance anyway and I've already said that I'm avoiding major changes currently.
3.
Quote
Ships must have same stats with Eve online
Quote
Ships must have very low Flux dissipation
- Again, see first paragraph... "Must" is a very strong word here. Also I don't quite get what stats are we talking about: many stats are absolutely incompatible, like armor. And also definitely I'm not going to make a built-in hullmod for every single ship just to give it original bonuses.
Quote
Ships Armor must not have same Armor Points like in EVE, Hull Points works (Add armor points to hull)
- sorry, I didn't understand this sentense at all. Could you explain?
4.
Quote
Dreadnought OP = 2500 (can fit some hullmods like 3200mm armor, X-Large Shields)
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. What for? Dreads have very limited usage here (I was very doubtful about adding them at all, BTW), why should we have a ton of hullmods for them. Again, this is Starsector firstly, EVE - secondly. SS has quite balanced vanilla hullmods.
5. Diversity for the sake of diversity? I know that EVE is all about "wow, that module is cool, it is a whole 1% better than the one I have". This will not be that cool in Starsector...

I hope that this didn't sound offensive, it wasn't meant to be.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on September 27, 2015, 12:04:33 PM
Quote
Ships Armor must not have same Armor Points like in EVE, Hull Points works (Add armor points to hull)
- sorry, I didn't understand this sentense at all. Could you explain?
Here an Example: If Ship armor is 1000, You can add this armor to Hull points
Hull: 4000
Armor: 1000
=
Hull: 5000
Somethng like that and call it Hull tank instead of Armor tanking

4.
Quote
Dreadnought OP = 2500 (can fit some hullmods like 3200mm armor, X-Large Shields)
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. What for? Dreads have very limited usage here (I was very doubtful about adding them at all, BTW), why should we have a ton of hullmods for them. Again, this is Starsector firstly, EVE - secondly. SS has quite balanced vanilla hullmods.

We need hullmods to make Hull tanking ships. It is possible to make Shield Tanking in this game you know how to do that. Dreadnought op = 2500 because frigates shouldnt use 3200mm armor or X-Large shields
Even EVE Mods should have Shield-Tank, Armor-Tank but Starsector armor mechanic is very different so use Hull instead of Armor.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Requal on September 28, 2015, 01:15:10 PM
Heh, most fun I had with the mod was flying frigates) These ships usually don't travel in packs of same, they are usually dedicated to different roles.
I currently work on a faction mod, probably I'll take a look at EVE again after it is finished.
But by what I have noticed, total conversions are not usual in SS and people do not really need them. Ironclads is the one most played (adding a lot of cool stuff apart from ships and guns), others did not survive the patches and were abandoned. Someone here is trying to make a Stargate TC, but there's no visible progress currently. So currently there are only 2 TCs vs 23 faction mods. People here much more appreciate the faction mods that add up to the overall vanilla experience and can be switched on/off to ones liking. This makes the game much more diverse than any TC, given the number of people with their own factions.
So that is my humble excuse for abandoning the development ATM =)

Why not create eve factions for Starsector (+) instead of a full conversion.
You have the materials already.
That will surely be played especially if compatible with + & Nex.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: shuul on November 20, 2015, 06:43:31 AM
Heya, just registered to ask if this mod will b updated to 0.7?
Please tell me YES  :)
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on November 20, 2015, 11:35:24 AM
would be awesome to have 0.7 version of this mod
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on November 21, 2015, 09:25:17 AM
would be awesome to have 0.7 version of this mod
Heya, just registered to ask if this mod will b updated to 0.7?
Please tell me YES  :)
Hey there! Currently mod is incompatible with 0.7, but it will definitely make it to new version soon. Not quite sure how much time it will take, but things don't look terribly bad at a first glance.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on January 20, 2016, 01:44:16 PM
Hey, any progress on updating this mod to be compatible with .7?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on January 21, 2016, 08:30:57 AM
Quote
Hey, any progress on updating this mod to be compatible with .7?
There is progress, but I've encountered a weird show-stopper campaign bug and currently have no idea how to fix it. I try to narrow down the problem to find the cause.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on January 21, 2016, 08:35:29 AM
Awesome thanks for the update. If there's anything we as a community can do to help let us know. I was extremely excited to see this mod and would love to be able to play.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on January 25, 2016, 06:18:40 AM
Hey Celest, here's your weekly prod. Any update on this effort?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on January 25, 2016, 09:37:33 AM
Hey Celest, here's your weekly prod. Any update on this effort?
Not really. I'm stuck with the following:
Code
41339 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.CoreScript  - Added patrol fleet spawning script to market [Sek]
41339 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.CoreScript  - Added patrol fleet spawning script to market [Oris]
41339 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.CoreScript  - Added patrol fleet spawning script to market [Zorast]
41344 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - 0 out of a maximum 50 trade fleets in play
41345 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Picked market [Sek] to spawn trade fleet from
41347 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Will send trade fleet to market [Oris]
41347 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Delivering: [], bringing back [Food]; volume: 211
41347 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 1 for market [Sek] (volume: 211)
41365 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Spawned 21 point economy fleet from [Sek] to [Oris]
41365 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.B  - Loading class: java.util.UUID
41365 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.B  - Loading class: com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.rules.MemoryAPI
41404 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Caldari State
41404 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Amarr Empire
41405 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Minmatar Republic
41405 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Gallente Federation
41406 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - 1 out of a maximum 50 trade fleets in play
41406 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Picked market [Oris] to spawn trade fleet from
41407 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Will send trade fleet to market [Sek]
41407 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Delivering: [Food], bringing back []; volume: 213
41407 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 1 for market [Oris] (volume: 213)

These are the first (and last) entries after campaign preparation starts. At least one fleet spawns fine, but the app freezes after the second. Sometimes this happens on the first fleet. I looked through EconomyFleetManager, but I didn't find any possibility for an infinite loop there, so I completely lack ideas.

edit:
In fact the issue is in fleet factory. I pointed the rpoblem down to this place, so I will probably manage to fix it soon. There is likely something wrong with fleet roles. Will return to this when I have time on weekend.
Code
		while (combatPts > 0) {
if (!cfFail && freighterPts > 0 && random.nextFloat() < doctrine.getCombatFreighterProbability()) {
float pts = Math.min(freighterPts, combatPts);
if (pts > 8) pts = 8;
float added = addRandomCombatFreighters(pts, qf, fleet, random, market);
combatPts -= added/2f;
freighterPts -= added/2f;
cfFail |= added < pts/2f;
continue;
}
if (combatPts >= 16f) {
float pts = add16PointGroup(qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, largeCarrierOk, combatPts - 16f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
} else if (combatPts >= 12f) {
float pts = add12PointGroup(qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, combatPts - 12f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
} else if (combatPts >= 8f) {
float pts = add8PointGroup(qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, combatPts - 8f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
} else {
float pts = addRandomCombatShips(combatPts, qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, true, 0f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
}
}
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on January 25, 2016, 12:11:00 PM
Awesome thanks for the update. It sounds like all of the key assets are in place if the first fleet is spawning alright so it very well may be tied to a change with fleet factory. Can you disable fleet factory and run in a debugging mode to ensure all of your added assets play nicely in engine?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on February 01, 2016, 07:01:07 AM
Hey Celest, how's it coming along?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on February 01, 2016, 08:39:15 AM
Weekly digest, heh)
I fixed the issue with fleet creation and finally managed to launch campaign. Unfortunately that wasn't enough. Though the game is relatively playable, there are severe economic issues.
I can't find almost any supplies. All markets have somewhat 50 supplies in black market, but none are available through open. Food is poorly distributed, resulting in frequent shortages, and it can cost 400 on producing planet with a stockpile of several thousand units.
But the main is still the lack of supplies: the game is a huge pain currently. I added plenty of supply-producing market conditions like autofacs and shipbreaking centers, but that doesn't work.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on February 01, 2016, 12:21:05 PM
Weekly digest, heh)
I fixed the issue with fleet creation and finally managed to launch campaign. Unfortunately that wasn't enough. Though the game is relatively playable, there are severe economic issues.
I can't find almost any supplies. All markets have somewhat 50 supplies in black market, but none are available through open. Food is poorly distributed, resulting in frequent shortages, and it can cost 400 on producing planet with a stockpile of several thousand units.
But the main is still the lack of supplies: the game is a huge pain currently. I added plenty of supply-producing market conditions like autofacs and shipbreaking centers, but that doesn't work.
Any ideas?

Just taking a guess here, but where do you call out the values for market conditions?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on February 01, 2016, 12:36:40 PM
Through script. Things are rather straightforward there and all conditions are correct in game. But everything is very unbalanced for some reason.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on February 02, 2016, 03:31:10 AM
Another modder ran into a similar issue, i'll link his name below. I sent him a message on this forum to try and get him to weigh in and see if we can get this resolved.


http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3890
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on February 02, 2016, 09:31:11 AM
Another modder ran into a similar issue, i'll link his name below. I sent him a message on this forum to try and get him to weigh in and see if we can get this resolved.


http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3890
Great, thanks! Hope he has figured out something
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on February 02, 2016, 09:58:53 AM
Another modder ran into a similar issue, i'll link his name below. I sent him a message on this forum to try and get him to weigh in and see if we can get this resolved.


http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3890
Great, thanks! Hope he has figured out something

His post makes it seem like he did. Still waiting on a response.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: MiniChiken on February 16, 2016, 05:51:38 AM
Still no word back from him. Any luck on your side?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: DefiasOne on February 16, 2016, 06:15:01 AM
Hello,

Sorry the late response.

Yes, the main factors that I've found are the market sizes given by the population size and the number of production facilities present on the planet. Some facilities simply create resources out of nothing from what I've seen. Other require raw materials, though how its working at the moment in the game I think some of these are created regardless of the raw material available.

Some market conditions have a huge impact on the market, like the Trade Center, Headquarters, Shipbreaking Yard and a few more.

You need to tweak the market conditions of your planets until you get the desired prices really... I'm sure there is probably a more efficient way of doing this but I took the empirical approach and tweaked the planets until I was satisfied with the prices.
I suggest you do this without any mods, at first, and after you've hit the your target prices/material availability add mods one by one and check the market prices.
If they go nuts again, adjust the conditions accordingly. You can even take it a step farther by checking what mods are available and generating the market conditions based on the active mods (though I've not tested this approach yet I'm sure its doable  ;D).
At one point I ran into a snag and the market stabilization was taking forever with after I had activated a lot of mods and SS+, but I don't quite remember how I fixed though (or if i did fix it lol).

Here is a nice Infographic that helped me when I tried tweaking the market.
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8493.0

My market is by no means perfect now, but at least supplies don't cost 1000 credits per unit now.
At any rate I hope this helps.

Cheers.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on March 05, 2016, 05:10:46 PM
any news?
also bump
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: celestis on March 08, 2016, 07:31:14 AM
No real news here... Still crazy prices for everything everywhere. Since we have no real solution, fixing involves just trying and trying and trying again, as @DefiasOne proposed. And that takes a lot of time that I rarely can afford, so this progresses very slowly.
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Altiarxsaint on February 09, 2017, 10:23:30 PM
I don't suppose this mod is going to receive an update any time soon, is it?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: gofastskatkat on February 10, 2017, 02:31:20 PM
I don't suppose this mod is going to receive an update any time soon, is it?

1st thing, Holy necro batman. 2nd Judging by the fact that the last comment besides yours was made in march of last year, no, no I dont think theres gonna be an update anytime soon
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Weltall on February 10, 2017, 06:51:25 PM
With 0.8 being so vastly different than 0.7.2, I do not think it would be worth to upgrade a mod right now, especially if it gives them headaches. It is much better to wait for the new release, while they are resting.

PS: It is so hard in here to not necro mod threads.. when there are so many juicy mods in the past..
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Titann on April 23, 2017, 03:09:04 PM
any chance to update this mod to 0.8?
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on April 23, 2017, 05:39:05 PM
any chance to update this mod to 0.8?
Doubt it. And to be honest, trash tier IP mods like this need to die
Title: Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
Post by: Gothars on April 24, 2017, 02:00:05 AM

. And to be honest, trash tier IP mods like this need to die

That's no way to talk about somebody else's work. You got a PM.