PROS | - | CONS |
Powerful armor repair and evasion abilities | - | No shields, low hitpoints, and moderate armor |
Ships often hit above their weight class while still being very fast and manueverable | - | Ships often have the cost, FP, and logistical requirements of the next weight class. |
Improved range for ballistic weapons that normally have less than 600 range | - | Reduced range for ballistic weapons that normally have more than 600 range |
Maintenance drones provide ammo and CR regeneration during combat | - | All ships suffer CR loss during combat and generally have low ammo |
Sight radius of all ships increased by 20% | - | Point defense options are very limited and frequently sub-par |
Hull and armor repaired instantly out of combat | - | High deployment costs, low capacities, and really bad gas mileage |
Apocrypha Command Ship | Abraxas Battlecruiser | Shalom Colony Ship |
| (http://i.imgur.com/E2ynvmq.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/toTzMjZ.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/mfcGEUh.png) |
Kelpie Blade Cruiser | Voidreaver Elite Cruiser | Eidolon Support Cruiser | Shiekwraith Support Destroyer | Soulbane Elite Destroyer |
| (http://i.imgur.com/OJ3a0ZY.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/0noaLgi.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/P5L31JE.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/Fqbsk3F.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/ZSUfxQ1.png) |
Nightseer Elite Frigate | Athame Drill Frigate | Specter Frigate | Seraph Support Frigate | Palantir Recon Frigate |
| (http://i.imgur.com/OvNRSsf.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/wYqojRC.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/Oz1dxk7.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/aueuEva.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/jFtPLcw.png) |
Umbra Bomber Wing | Stormwhisp Fighter Wing | Phantom Interceptor Wing | Poltergeist Escort Wing |
| (http://i.imgur.com/gTemRiW.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/qDyQ3Sr.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/Tyen9IG.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/Xd3wIOP.png) |
| (http://i.imgur.com/c52aT6c.png) | Nosferatu Fusor Large Energy Strike Beam Repairs armor in a wide radius around the weapon's mount when it hits hull or armor | (http://i.imgur.com/wl3LSd8.png) | Mine Pod Large Area Denial Weapon Moves to a designated point, then deploys several mines in a large area |
| (http://i.imgur.com/7ukSe0z.png) | Mobeus Ray Large Energy Assault Weapon Fires in a curving stream toward the cursor | (http://i.imgur.com/GMpPFTB.png) | Hex Autocannon Medium Point Defense Gun Equally effective at point defense and applying shield pressure |
| (http://i.imgur.com/fnUJFm6.png) | Chupacabra Fusor Medium Energy Assault Beam Repairs armor near the weapon's mount when it hits hull or armor | (http://i.imgur.com/I6hOTvl.png) | Hypermass Bomb Medium Strike Weapon Delivers a massive kinetic payload |
| (http://i.imgur.com/LpPQEHr.png) | Flamebolt Medium Strike Cannon Limited by short range and low ammo, but shreds armor | (http://i.imgur.com/5tvNH60.png) | Boomerang SRM Pod Medium Short Range Missile Rack Fires in two stages to circumvent enemy shields |
| (http://i.imgur.com/f2Y3T3V.png) | Boomerang SRM Small Short Range Missile Rack Fires in two stages to circumvent enemy shields | (http://i.imgur.com/medJ1bA.png) | Light Hex Autocannon Small Point Defense Gun Equally effective at point defense and applying shield pressure |
| (http://i.imgur.com/MU8Wt6F.png) | Scatter PD Small Point Defense Rocket Pod Fires many rockets in a wide arc, exploding shortly after deployment | (http://i.imgur.com/hgyj9Tr.png) | Falx Beam Small Energy Utility Beam Reduces the active arc of any shields the beam hits |
Looking good, can't wait until they're playable. I always wanted to see what would happen if a Recognizer actually caught somebody. Does that Kelpie have a way to deal with the explosion damage from destroying a ship right next to it, or does it just have to tank the damage?
I got a wise idea, wonder what is stronger your tractor beam, or my repulsor beam? Would be funny to lock the two in a tug of war and see who wins :)It looks like my tractor beam is a lot stronger. I think I'll nerf it so they're close to an even match.
Looks fantastic Sundog! :D Your ships turned out really well!Yeah, I cackled like a maniac the first time I used it :)
Also, I find that melee cruiser hilarious.
The Soulbane cloak is really good too, a bit like the BRDY's Asura, would be even better if you add a proper sound effect to it.So far I have 10 ships (mostly frigates) in various states of disrepair. I want to release the faction before 6.2 is official, but I've still got a lot of work to do (like proper sound effects)
I hope we'll see some more ICE ships soon.
just wanted to recommend http://obsproject.com/ (http://obsproject.com/) for recording so you don't have the lame bandicam watermark.Yes! I was hoping there'd be someone just like you! It's surprisingly difficult to find good screencasting software with google. Many thanks! :D
its good for livestreaming as well ;)
Does that Kelpie have a way to deal with the explosion damage from destroying a ship right next to it, or does it just have to tank the damage?Right now it has a hullmod that 'Reduces damage from collisions, ship explosions, and projectiles by 50 percent, but doubles damage from beams and missiles.' I'd rather not mess with damage from weapons, but unfortunately I have to due to the way collisions and ship explosions are implemented. I've requested an API feature that would allow me fix it, but it won't be available in time for 6.2 even if Alex decides to implement it. I've also seen the AI escape the blast using the phase cloak, but I certainly don't have the reflexes for that...
Given it have a regenerating armor system, i guess it can tank explosions and repair afterward. However i don't know if the AI will be able to choose its target. Pulling a frigate in the meatgrinder is no problem, pulling an Onslaught is... Less advisable. It make me think, i send some kamikaze ships sprites to MesoTroniK for the TIM mod, those will probably be the bane of the Kelpie.Very true! I'm actually pretty conflicted about whether or not the Kelpie should have regenerating armor. On one hand, it's perfect for it, but on the other, it would make it OP. Meh. It can actually fit the nose of an Onslaught in it's jaws. Still, though, you're right. Pulling in a capitol or kamikaze ship isn't likely to be a good idea, and the kelpie currently uses the default AI to decide who to shoot. I'm pretty sure I can find a way to fix this if the need arises though.
I want to release the faction before 6.2 is official, but I've still got a lot of work to do (like proper sound effects)
By the way, what happen when two Athame burn drive into each other? Double kill?Possibly. Both could even survive. It all depends on their respective hitpoints.
Oh, and nice asteroid death.Thanks! :D
Sundog, you are a madman!Oh, I can't help that. We're all mad here... I'm mad... You're mad.
Is activating the Fission Drill supposed to cause hull damage to the Athame?It is. That's one of the ways I try to balance out the overpowered nature of the ship. 'Odd yet awesome' is pretty much what I was going for with this ship, so I'm glad you think that of the mechanic. I'm sure plenty of people will think it's a bad idea though. We'll see.
New teasers for another ship!
The Sacrifice - Conquest vs. Athame frigates (0:24) (http://youtu.be/JVChJIhoazM)
Knife Fight - Athame vs. Two Athames (1:32) (http://youtu.be/ekn-5GFQVTs)
downloaded, going to see how your ships handle my high mass ships ^^Let me know what you find out! :)
You are insane Sundog! (http://youtu.be/3oWKAbuQGrY)Ahaha! Bliss...
downloaded, going to see how your ships handle my high mass ships ^^Let me know what you find out! :)
I think...I think I'm in love. :o
That repository is not accessible for us.Oh! Hey there Meso. I didn't see you there earlier. heh.
if you would like i can record my OP ship vs some of your shipsYou're certainly welcome to do so, but don't feel obligated :)
im a bit worried about the balance tho but thats easily fixed over time.Yeah, balance is super-wonky at the moment. Don't worry though, balance is something I take seriously and I'll do my best to do it well.
and dat mobius ray... please tell me it will be buyable in campaign ;DErm. Heh. Actually it's not. It's supposed to be, but I completely forgot to add the faction weapons to the faction station... I'll fix that.
Can this crazy mod possibly be included in UsS in the future?I would be honored! This mod can be used in any compilation so long as credit is given. I'll add that to the permissions section of the OP.
What is your evil genius plan for ICE capital ship(s)?The only capitol I have planned at the moment is for logistics support (like an Atlas, Phaeton, and 3 Valkyrie all in one, with a supply/day cost to match). I do want it to have some form of game-changing support ability in combat, but I haven't decided what (suggestions welcome). Still not sure how I want it to look either. I have an idea or two for other capitols, but I don't think I'll ever make one that's like a capitol-sized Soulbane/Voidreaver. Too powerful. But then, I'll always remember my first Unsung...
Are you using a custom AI or does the default really work with the ramming and melee?All ships use default AI, but there are all kinds of tweaks and hacks all over the place to get it to work decently. I think the melee ships could be improved a lot with custom AI. I'll need to look into it at some point. Come to think of it... wow. Why didn't I think of that before...
it is far from vanilla balance ships.True, true. I've got plenty of balance issues to sort out. The trick will be doing it in such a way that the distinctive elements of the faction are kept intact. As for the arcade-y-ness of the faction; it's intentional and unlikely to change much. ICE ships are fast, but I don't want them to be so fast they can't be balanced with vanilla. One thing to keep in mind is that nearly all ICE variants have unstable injector installed, so they might seem too fast because of it.
[...]
starsector is not IKARUGA (or similar 2/3-D arcade shooter)
When the Voidreaver appears in battle, the box indicating whether it's a friend or enemy is tiny. I'd guess that's a ship radius problem.Good guess! You're right. The shield radius was set to zero. Fixed. The ordinance deflection is kind of weird, but most of the time it's not noticeable.Weird how? I'm kinda worried people will have a hard time figuring out how to use/counter it. I'd like for it to be more noticeable, but I haven't thought of a good way to represent it graphically yet. Open to suggestions. Generally speaking, I feel like your armor values on Destroyer and larger ships are too high.I agree. Will nerf. The armor issues with the Kelpie and Pentagram are a lot more complicated though. They both have a hullmod called Reverberation Dampeners which 'Reduces damage from collisions, ship explosions, and projectiles by 50 percent, but doubles damage from beams and missiles.' If I had my way this hullmod would reduce damage from collisions and explosions by 80% without messing with other damage sources, but unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out how to do that. The Kelpie actually has the same armor rating as the Aurora, but with the 50% reduction to projectile damage it effectively has more armor than every vanilla ship other than the Onslaught. Take into account damage mitigation from armor level and we get this problem. It's irksome. In this case I think the cure (the hull mod) might be worse than the disease (explosion/collision damage), so I might just get rid of it until I can do it properly. The Kelpie keeps getting its tractor beam disabled. That might not be a bad thing, but I'll mention it just in case.Working as intended. Now that you mention it though, it might be better to prevent that considering how much worse the Kelpie AI is without a working tractor beam Your large energy weapons might do too much damage.Yeah, you're probably right. I'm hesitant to just reduce the damage though. The mobeus beam already has dps, range, and flux requirements very close to the heavy mauler. What do you think of increasing flux and ordnance cost instead? I think the Athame would be better off if it's default loadout had Reinforced Bulkheads and Blast Doors instead of armor, since all its armor melts off once it collides with anything anyway.I agree. Will do. I also tried putting a Front Shield Generator on it; I have no idea what that would do to the AI, but from a piloting perspective it can help the Athame not die to missiles.I hadn't considered that possibility. I'll look into it. You have a medium missile bomb weapon that isn't on any default ship weapon; I forgot what it's called. It was pretty fun on the Flashghast, although I couldn't tell if the Buffalo exploded because I rammed into it or because the bomb hit.Haha That's exactly how I intended for that weapon to be used! Try phasing through the buffalo next time ;) I didn't use it in any of the variants because the frigate AI still has no clue how to use bombs, but I had to include it just so the player can conduct devastating bombing runs manually. Now, I want to see how they fare against Blackrock.Honestly, with HE beam weapons and the mobility to apply constant pressure, Blackrock should wreck ICE. If that's not the case I've got more nerfing to do than I had previously thought. |
The only capital I have planned at the moment is for logistics support (like an Atlas, Phaeton, and 3 Valkyrie all in one, with a supply/day cost to match). I do want it to have some form of game-changing support ability in combat, but I haven't decided what (suggestions welcome). Still not sure how I want it to look either. I have an idea or two for other capitals, but I don't think I'll ever make one that's like a capital-sized Soulbane/Voidreaver. Too powerful. But then, I'll always remember my first Unsung...
We'll see. Suggestions for thematically consistent capital ships are welcome.
Now, I thought that the deflection wasn't very impressive, but after some more tests it's sometimes a bit broken. It mostly comes into play against perfect accuracy projectile weapons (chiefly weapons you associate with the Tri-Tachyon). I had an amusing moment when dueling a Medusa with a Voidreaver, and watching the Pulse Lasers bend around the ship. Helped immensely with taking down an Auora. In those cases, it's rather obvious that the hull mod is in effect. Interestingly, it's less influential with missiles.The ordinance deflection is kind of weird, but most of the time it's not noticeable.Weird how? I'm kinda worried people will have a hard time figuring out how to use/counter it. I'd like for it to be more noticeable, but I haven't thought of a good way to represent it graphically yet. Open to suggestions.
You could also halve the armor on the Kelpie and Pentagram and keep the hull mod. It would give them an interesting gameplay dynamic (the Kelpie gets demolished by the Conquest's Reaper torpedoes, for instance).Generally speaking, I feel like your armor values on Destroyer and larger ships are too high.I agree. Will nerf. The armor issues with the Kelpie and Pentagram are a lot more complicated though. They both have a hullmod called Reverberation Dampeners which 'Reduces damage from collisions, ship explosions, and projectiles by 50 percent, but doubles damage from beams and missiles.' If I had my way this hullmod would reduce damage from collisions and explosions by 80% without messing with other damage sources, but unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out how to do that. The Kelpie actually has the same armor rating as the Aurora, but with the 50% reduction to projectile damage it effectively has more armor than every vanilla ship other than the Onslaught. Take into account damage mitigation from armor level and we get this problem. It's irksome. In this case I think the cure (the hull mod) might be worse than the disease (explosion/collision damage), so I might just get rid of it until I can do it properly.
You could simply give it Armored Weapon Mounts instead, if it doesn't have it already. Invincible weapons seem like a bad idea.The Kelpie keeps getting its tractor beam disabled. That might not be a bad thing, but I'll mention it just in case.Working as intended. Now that you mention it though, it might be better to prevent that considering how much worse the Kelpie AI is without a working tractor beam
After more testing, what really makes the Mobeus Beam immensely good is it's perfect accuracy (great for dealing with fighters and such) and the fact that it sometimes curves around shields. Increased flux generation would be one way to balance it out. Currently I don't think any of your ships have flux problems due to their weaponry except the Soulbane, due to its dual Antimatter blasters. I think that was the only ship I could really fill my flux capacity due to weapons fire.Your large energy weapons might do too much damage.Yeah, you're probably right. I'm hesitant to just reduce the damage though. The mobeus beam already has dps, range, and flux requirements very close to the heavy mauler. What do you think of increasing flux and ordnance cost instead?
Well, I tested this again. Under AI control, the Athame becomes a bit more survivable and, oddly enough, becomes more bold with its attacks. You did state in your OP that this was supposed to be a shieldless faction, though. I like the idea of leaving it as an option for creative players, personally.I also tried putting a Front Shield Generator on it; I have no idea what that would do to the AI, but from a piloting perspective it can help the Athame not die to missiles.I hadn't considered that possibility. I'll look into it.
Ah, that explains it. I forgot to test it, though.You have a medium missile bomb weapon that isn't on any default ship weapon; I forgot what it's called. It was pretty fun on the Flashghast, although I couldn't tell if the Buffalo exploded because I rammed into it or because the bomb hit.Haha That's exactly how I intended for that weapon to be used! Try phasing through the buffalo next time ;)
I didn't use it in any of the variants because the frigate AI still has no clue how to use bombs, but I had to include it just so the player can conduct devastating bombing runs manually.
Kind of. The Sunfires are not what make Blackrock deadly against the ICE, but the mobility and high-damage-per-shot weapons do. Simultaneously, the phase cloaks of ICE sometimes get around Blackrock's burst weapons. The two of them hard counter each other in certain matchups.Now, I want to see how they fare against Blackrock.Honestly, with HE beam weapons and the mobility to apply constant pressure, Blackrock should wreck ICE. If that's not the case I've got more nerfing to do than I had previously thought.
@Ember: Not even a scratch on that big ship of yours. Nerrrrf!
@Ember: Not even a scratch on that big ship of yours. Nerrrrf!
true but it has the same armor rating as my old capital ship, and its very easy to get through that armor with torpedoes or even missiles
I'm personally all for diversity and if this leads to more factions with crazy visuals I'm all for it.
These ships are simply gorgeous!@Ember: Not even a scratch on that big ship of yours. Nerrrrf!
true but it has the same armor rating as my old capital ship, and its very easy to get through that armor with torpedoes or even missiles
Oh, look! A brony! /)
capital ships represent the very essence of a factionNot sure I agree with you on that particular point. I think it depends on the player. I for one prefer to fly cruisers in most situations. If we're talking about most players though, I think you're right. Most people want to fly capitals, and I'll do my best to make sure ICE caters to them. :)
Overall, though, I think ICE may not be as overpowered as I used to believe. I think they need some more weapons which deal kinetic or energy damage in order to deal with shields.One of the things I wanted to do with this faction was to emphasize getting around shields rather than through them (Boomerang/Mobeus/Maneuverability). That's why their kinetic DPS capabilities are so limited (Pretty sure I'm actually going to nerf the hex guns). Now, if you really want more kinetic DPS, you can equip the Heavy MG or Dual MG vanilla weapons. They have excellent DPS and get a range boost from the ICE passive range modifier.
not sure how well you can see whats going on but it was a bit fun to watch my ships fight yoursNice! Too bad it does such a good job of demonstrating how bad the AI is at handling the Kelpie though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD2y2X0uzYY
Although one could say that some less effects would improve visibility, not that I had issues with that but newer players might have issues with that.Yeah, that's something I'm a little worried about. I want the visuals to be striking too, though, so it's a bit of a balancing act. I'm not going to worry about it too much unless I end up getting significant negative feedback about it from non-vets.
I'm personally all for diversity and if this leads to more factions with crazy visuals I'm all for it.Yep. Diversity. I think variety is more important than cohesion when it comes to modding, but cohesion is still very important. I want to push the limits of what fits with vanilla, but I don't want to exceed that limit. (i.e no 'anime disco lightning' lol)
I want to push the limits of what fits with vanilla, but I don't want to exceed that limit. (i.e no 'anime disco lightning' lol)
I want to push the limits of what fits with vanilla, but I don't want to exceed that limit. (i.e no 'anime disco lightning' lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S45-lXhiO5A
I want to push the limits of what fits with vanilla, but I don't want to exceed that limit. (i.e no 'anime disco lightning' lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S45-lXhiO5A
I want to push the limits of what fits with vanilla, but I don't want to exceed that limit. (i.e no 'anime disco lightning' lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S45-lXhiO5A
Is there any reference to Supreme Commander Forge Alliance per Chane?Not a bit. This is the first I've heard of that game. To be fair though, the whole thing with white armor plates covering dark, mechanical internals is pretty common. I've always been a fan of it.
Thank you kindly :)Is there any reference to Supreme Commander Forge Alliance per Chane?Not a bit. This is the first I've heard of that game. To be fair though, the whole thing with white armor plates covering dark, mechanical internals is pretty common. I've always been a fan of it.
Umm, it's not the Desidnova, it's the Nevermore.Erm. Yes. Thank you. :-X
This new monster will be painful for the AI.then write a new one ;D
He already did ... And yes, Sundog's work is quite amazing, both art and coding.QuoteThis new monster will be painful for the AI.then write a new one ;D
but really, this mod looks so nice
im only in the forums :P
got an exam on the 23rd so till then not much happening
Is it going to have very low hull points or something, to compensate?Yes :)
You are truly a wet blanket when it comes to errors, Sundog.Heh, none taken. That's a strange thing to say. I like it :D
No offense! :)
Uhm, domoarigato Mr.corners? B¤t?I recognize none of those monikers. Are you referring to the cryptic and tactless guy who makes red and black boss ships?
Perhaps I am being too suspicious...
You plan on making 10 more ships for the next update?Sadly, I do plan on making two more frigates, but neither of them will be able to deal damage (except by ramming or exploding).
Any hints at what you're thinking at? The faction has a need for destroyers but 5 frigates and 3 cruisers is really good.
(http://cdn-frm-us.wargaming.net/wot/us/4.1/style_emoticons/wot/Smile-hiding.gif)
Love it, want to blow it up...
And nice faction by the way. :)Thanks!
Cool, nice to see an update on thisYeah, it's been a while hasn't it? Hopefully my motivation module will kick in soon and I'll finally be able to make this faction releasable.
@Uomoz
In fact, this new system IS inspired by an ability from a fantasy game; the thief's Shadowstep from Guild Wars 2 (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep).
The ribbon shaped capital near the center (the one that doesn't look like a beach ball) is the Apocrypha class command ship. It has two main selling points:Probably a bit late to the party here, but I'd suggest something very simple: it recalls all ships that are currently assigned to it as escorts - and immediately generates one command point - effectively refunding the one you just used to specify which ships you wanted recalled.
1. It regenerates command points.
2. It has the ability to teleport friendly ships to it (like the Arbiter's Recall from StarCraft). Or, at least, it will once I figure out how I want that ability to work. The problem is that there's no graceful way for the player to designate which ships to teleport. Right now I'm leaning toward a weapon with a minute long cooldown that, when activated, will automatically choose which ships to recall in order to bring them closer to their respective assignments. I'm hoping that will give the player plenty of control over who gets recalled by using the command interface. What do you guys think? Suggestions?
- Ship prices adjusted. Notably, the value of the Palantir was reduced from 15000 to 1250
I've found a few more things to fix, so I'll be releasing another patch soon. Any requests for changes while I'm at it?
(why does every modded faction systems have to hug the goddamn edge of the map?)MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! >:D
A (very) good starter loadout would be a mauler/ACs combo. A hex AC with a pair of falx beam make a pretty decent support teammate early on as well.I like these. I think I'll add them once I get around to adding variants.
Do you know if the drones of several Seraph stack? That could make a fully combat skilled capital ship absolutely unkillable!Yep. Maintenance drones can stack infinitely. They can't repair the armor of non-ICE ships though, and they aren't all that useful to an Abraxas, so the possibility of invincible cap-ships shouldn't be too much of a problem. That could be an interesting tactic though. I think the Kelpie would benefit most from it.
The Kelpie suffer from its faster phase cloak like the Eidolon, both will abuse it to move to position. Mobility is good but i'd rather want my ships to keep their flux low in case things went too hot, i witnessed a lot my Kelpie/Eidolon charging the enemy with nearly max flux.That's no good. Are you sure that was due to the AI using phase cloak to travel faster? It sounds like this might just be the AI being dumb about flux management as usual. ICE ships aren't supposed to use their phase cloaks to speed up travel unless they are at least 2400 away from the nearest enemy. If they get closer than that they're supposed to vent immediately.
Want a coffee? Yeah, definitely have a command point for that too.haha Sounds like it needs a bit of a nerf if you're using command points to order coffee.
It is really really hard to hit one of those things with torps...I'll take that as a commendation of the AI rather than a criticism of my balancing skills :)
@Malone: ICE should work just as well with SCY as without. To be honest, though, I'm not sure it works all that well to begin with at the moment, which is why the current download in the OP is for 0.6.2 instead of 0.65. I'm testing right now to see if something I thought was an issue actually wasn't.
@Malone: ICE should work just as well with SCY as without. To be honest, though, I'm not sure it works all that well to begin with at the moment, which is why the current download in the OP is for 0.6.2 instead of 0.65. I'm testing right now to see if something I thought was an issue actually wasn't.
Well I tried 2 times, I am always able to start a new game with both, but after some play time, the save file is corrupted and I cannot load it anymore.
Not sure if it's linked with ICE itself or the combination of the 2 mods though.
Well I tried 2 times, I am always able to start a new game with both, but after some play time, the save file is corrupted and I cannot load it anymore.
Not sure if it's linked with ICE itself or the combination of the 2 mods though.
Well I tried 2 times, I am always able to start a new game with both, but after some play time, the save file is corrupted and I cannot load it anymore.Yep, as Tartiflette suggested, this is most likely caused by Starsector needing more RAM. The corruption issue can happen even without mods and will be addressed in the next release of Starsector. The issue with the current version of ICE for 0.65 is that it can cause crashes during battles, so you should save before each battle that involves ICE ships.
Not sure if it's linked with ICE itself or the combination of the 2 mods though.
Recall Tele' OP, causes world to cease lolHmm. Do you mean that crashes the game in the current version too?
No problem, Malone. Hope you enjoy Starsector as much as I do :)Recall Tele' OP, causes world to cease lolHmm. Do you mean that crashes the game in the current version too?
Was just joking that to the inhabitants of the sector, for the recall teleporter to crash the game would be like those ships having the ability to tear a hole in the universe. =PHeh. gotcha
I think it ran out of fuel and then starved for supplies because I'm also using the (RAND) mod that makes stars orbit.Hmm. That make sense. The colony fleet will regenerate fuel while it's in a system, but without fuel it will drift at 0 burn speed in hyperspace, meaning it might never make it to a system if they move too fast. I guess this qualifies as a compatibility issue...
I bought a repair tug and noticed they still use 9 fuel per lightyear. That is way to much to be usable (especially when i have (RAND) going). Each one practically needs it's own fuel tanker to get anywhere.I'll reduce it to 6, but that's my final offer :)
The ammo regen on missiles is pretty devastating now that they're even more awesomer. Especially reapers. Makes wolves the ultimate strike vessels.Yeah, this is the reason I nerfed the ammo regen from maintenance drones so much in 0.3.1. It might still need adjustment, but I think maintenance drones became OP for the same reason Daggers did; the vanilla missiles they regenerate became OP. One of the reasons I added ammo regeneration to ICE was that I felt missiles were generally under-powered, but that's not the case any more.
System bounties posted by colony fleet don't show up sometimes.
Rep loss from trading with faction hostile to ICE shortly after colony fleet destroyed?
Rediculously high food prices
Vagrant fleets just standing around
Price updates off screen after colony fleet death
Trade disrupted on the Exiled Idoneus Colony Fleet in the hyperspace system
Trade disrupted $onOrAt $market in the $marketSystem system
Maybe the Exiled fleet needs to be removed from the economy? Is that even possible?I think it's possible, but it would defeat the purpose of the colony fleet having a market to begin with because much of the market functionality would stop working :-[
I have multiple mods running so I'm not 100% sure it's a bug with the ICE mod itself. Just to be sure: has anyone else having a bug where Idoneus Trade Fleets are all heading beyond the edge of the map? Specifically, Idoneus (and a few small independent traders) are heading to the bottom lefter corner of the map, father than I'm capable of scrolling to see.
This is purely speculation, but I would suspect that maybe there's some colony fleet that spawned off the map and they're trying to reach it? Or do Idoneus traders not travel to/from the colony fleet?
Personally I'd argue that while Eos is important for food, ICE is important for technology. You have to choose who to be in favor with.
A mod is forcing you to make actual meaningful decisions??!?! The horror!
A mod is forcing you to make actual meaningful decisions??!?! The horror!
Except it only penalizes trader-type players. Combat players can blast up pirates, etc. and raise reputation with both at once, so don't have to make that choice.
public void advance(float amount, CombatEngineAPI engine, BeamAPI beam)
{
ShieldAPI myShield = beam.getSource().getShield();
if(myShield != null && myShield.isOn()) {
myShield.setActiveArc(myShield.getActiveArc() * (1 - beam.getBrightness()));
...I take Fatal Null crash after this:ICE currently doesn't function properly, according to previous posts.
101480 [Thread-5] INFO com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.FoodShortageEvent - [The Exiled Idoneus Colony Fleet] Expired
101717 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.O0OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - java.lang.NullPointerException
What is it ? Colony die with out supplies ?
Update on the status of ICE: I still plan on fixing it up, but it's not exactly a priority and I'm a chronic procrastinator anyway. Some progress has been made toward an update to deal with the stability issues, but I've still got a bit of work left before it's ready. ETA for next release is somewhere between a week and a year.Hey, if its any motivation, this mod seems really nice. The sprites are amazing, the weapons especially seem really cool, and I hope you do eventually fix it. I would use it in a heartbeat.
Can anyone get permission to do some work on fixing bugs in this mod? Its such a neat idea, I'd love to play with it.
PermissionsSo I take it anyone could go ahead and do it, assuming the source code is available.
All assets from this project may be used without obtaining explicit permission as long as...
No laws are broken and Fractal Softworks' terms of service are not violated
The original authors of any assets used are credited
The assets are not used for nefarious purposes
If you would like to use something in a way that doesn't meet these criteria, please ask me about it first.
The main thing to avoid is the crash, so I'll describe why that happened in detail. The primary cause was that the CampaignEventManager was trying to create a recent unrest event after the colony fleet had been destroyed (after which I transferred its market to a different entity). In order to throw the NPE, this sequence of events would have to occur, in this order:
-Colony fleet experiences a food shortage
-Colony fleet is destroyed and the market is moved to a different entity in an inaccessible star system
-Food shortage ends and procs a recent unrest eventQuotejava.lang.NullPointerException
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.RecentUnrestEvent.startEvent(RecentUnrestEvent.java:20)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.events.CampaignEventManager.startEvent(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.BaseEventPlugin.increaseRecentUnrest(BaseEventPlugin.java:265)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.FoodShortageEvent.endEvent(FoodShortageEvent.java:615)
at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.FoodShortageEvent.advance(FoodShortageEvent.java:374)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.events.CampaignEventManager.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
When recent unrest starts it runs BaseEventPlugin.init() (or so I assume)Code: javaBecause the market has already been removed from the entity, the 'market' variable is assigned null on line 06. So, when RecentUnrestEvent.startEvent() runs, it throws the NPE when trying to access 'market.'public void init(String eventType, CampaignEventTarget eventTarget) {
this.eventType = eventType;
this.eventTarget = eventTarget;
if (eventTarget.getEntity() != null) {
market = eventTarget.getEntity().getMarket();
faction = eventTarget.getFaction();
entity = eventTarget.getEntity();
}
if (market == null) {
statModId = eventType + "_" + UUID.randomUUID().toString();
} else {
statModId = eventType + "_" + market.getId() + "_" + UUID.randomUUID().toString();
}
Global.getSector().addListener(this);
}Code: javaAs you can see, there are plenty of potential ways to fix this specific issue, so you shouldn't have trouble avoiding it. I can only guess at the causes of most of the less serious issues, but they all seemed to stem from the market being temporary and/or nomadic. The problem with unconventional markets (and the reason I've been avoiding fixing ICE) is that it's easy to cause unintended side effects that are often difficult to find.public void startEvent() {
super.startEvent();
conditionToken = market.addCondition(Conditions.RECENT_UNREST, true, this);
}
Unfortunately, I've decided to stop working on ICE for good
Hi all. Thanks for all the encouragement :)Its all good, don't feel guilty about it. What you put in is very unique, im sure it will be carried over nicely if someone decided to work on it.
It hurts in a strange, bitter-sweet way to know there are people out there who are interested in a project that I haven't maintained. Even though I've never asked for anything in return for making this mod, I still feel guilty for not following through with everything it could have been. Unfortunately, I've decided to stop working on ICE for good even though it will make that guilt worse. I hope my choice to abandon this project won't cause too much disappointment.
But i guess sometimes real life doesn't leave you much time for modding.Too true. Nice reaction gif :)
Its all good, don't feel guilty about it. What you put in is very unique, im sure it will be carried over nicely if someone decided to work on it.Thanks. I hope so :)
...So to my understanding, the problem lies with the faction campaign integration right? If that is the case, wouldn't it be relatively simple to take the ICE ships and bootstrap them onto another faction? Even if it was only for personal use, that would still be neat.
So to my understanding, the problem lies with the faction campaign integration right? If that is the case, wouldn't it be relatively simple to take the ICE ships and bootstrap them onto another faction?That's correct, but it would be just as simple to strip the problematic features out of the current version of ICE. That's how I was planning to deal with the campaign issues in the short-term. I started a thread here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9614.0) for people who are interested in working on ICE.
That's correct, but it would be just as simple to strip the problematic features out of the current version of ICE. That's how I was planning to deal with the campaign issues in the short-term. I started a thread here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9614.0) for people who are interested in working on ICE.I see. I'm probably better off leaving it to people who know what they're doing. I have no idea how to work the campaign integration either, and the topic in general seems to be fairly active so it probably won't be a super long time anyway. Thanks for keeping up with everything.
N.B. the 5 -> 4 market size thing was a partial revert of an earlier commit; the net change from 0.3.2 is 3 -> 4Gotcha. Fixed. Nice catch.
Is Nexerelin support planned?According to the Nexerelin bitbucket, yes, it'll probably be in the next update.
Actually Nexerelin is supported in the current version. I meant to include that in the patch notes but it slipped by. Fixed. Sorry for the confusion.Is Nexerelin support planned?According to the Nexerelin bitbucket, yes, it'll probably be in the next update.
(I dled the repo, so I'm already playing with it. :P)
Oh oops, I meant that the current Nexerelin version doesn't support ICE and thus it won't show up in a Nexerelin playthrough.Actually Nexerelin is supported in the current version. I meant to include that in the patch notes but it slipped by. Fixed. Sorry for the confusion.Is Nexerelin support planned?According to the Nexerelin bitbucket, yes, it'll probably be in the next update.
(I dled the repo, so I'm already playing with it. :P)
Are the Chupacabra and Nosferatu beams armor repair based on damage? Or is it fixed as long as they hit armor or hull?On that note, I always wondered what Gravimetric Sensors do for weapons with greater than 600 range.
Are the Chupacabra and Nosferatu beams armor repair based on damage? Or is it fixed as long as they hit armor or hull?Fixed. Nosferatu repairs a 50% larger area at a 25% faster rate.
I believe it attempts to normalize weapons to 600 range; that's what it said in the description back before it went out of date.Yup. Only for ballistic weapons though.
So if it's below 600, it raises it by X%; and if it's above 600, it lowers it by X%.
StuffHow does it stack with the ITU or other range-enhancers?
Ah, I see. Thanks.Are the Chupacabra and Nosferatu beams armor repair based on damage? Or is it fixed as long as they hit armor or hull?Fixed. Nosferatu repairs a 50% larger area at a 25% faster rate.I believe it attempts to normalize weapons to 600 range; that's what it said in the description back before it went out of date.Yup. Only for ballistic weapons though.
So if it's below 600, it raises it by X%; and if it's above 600, it lowers it by X%.
The formula is:
baseRange / 2 + 300 = modifiedRange
So...
600 / 2 + 300 = 600
200 / 2 + 300 = 400
1200 / 2 + 300 = 900
I wanted to make sure ICE ships were bad at kiting in spite of their speed, so I added gravimetric sensors to encourage the use of short-range weapons.
Gotcha, thanks. Dare I ask, I assume they would still work the same even if they hit through Templar shields?Are the Chupacabra and Nosferatu beams armor repair based on damage? Or is it fixed as long as they hit armor or hull?Fixed. Nosferatu repairs a 50% larger area at a 25% faster rate.
How does it stack with the ITU or other range-enhancers?The API handles how effects stack, but if I remember correctly both additive and multiplicative effects stack additively, meaning two hullmods that give 30% increased range would give 100% + 30% + 30% = 160%, not 100% x 130% x 130% = 169%. That means ITU should increase range by the same amount whether it's stacking with Gravimetric Sensors or not.
Ah, I see. Thanks.np :)
Gotcha, thanks. Dare I ask, I assume they would still work the same even if they hit through Templar shields?Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'll repair the same amount when they hit Templar shields, no matter what state Templar ship's shields are in. But then, I'm operating mostly on assumptions too. I have a pretty limited understanding of how Templar shields work.
every time when The events.FoodShortEvent -[The Exiled Idoneus Colony Fleet]...appeared.Are you playing Starsector 0.7a? Because there are currently no faction mods that are compatible. At all.
An other Thread must go after it " [Thread-11] INFO sound.O - Creating streaming player for music with id [music-campaign_system_corvus.ogg]"
then the presentation is :"Playing music with id running-dark."
so I add an .ogg named "corvus" to your folder.
after that, the log....
7240660 [Thread-5] INFO com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.MercAndPirateFleetManager - 1 out of a maximum 2 pirate/merc fleets in play for market [Barad A]
7240809 [Thread-11] INFO sound.O - Creating streaming player for music with id [music-campaign_system_corvus.ogg]
7240809 [Thread-11] INFO sound.OooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - Playing music with id [music-campaign_system_corvus.ogg]
7240985 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D - java.lang.NumberFormatException: Numbers must be in range 1-3999
java.lang.NumberFormatException: Numbers must be in range 1-3999
at com.fs.starfarer.util.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
every time when The events.FoodShortEvent -[The Exiled Idoneus Colony Fleet]...appeared.Are you playing Starsector 0.7a? Because there are currently no faction mods that are compatible. At all.
An other Thread must go after it " [Thread-11] INFO sound.O - Creating streaming player for music with id [music-campaign_system_corvus.ogg]"
then the presentation is :"Playing music with id running-dark."
so I add an .ogg named "corvus" to your folder.
after that, the log....
7240660 [Thread-5] INFO com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.MercAndPirateFleetManager - 1 out of a maximum 2 pirate/merc fleets in play for market [Barad A]
7240809 [Thread-11] INFO sound.O - Creating streaming player for music with id [music-campaign_system_corvus.ogg]
7240809 [Thread-11] INFO sound.OooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - Playing music with id [music-campaign_system_corvus.ogg]
7240985 [Thread-5] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.D - java.lang.NumberFormatException: Numbers must be in range 1-3999
java.lang.NumberFormatException: Numbers must be in range 1-3999
at com.fs.starfarer.util.oOOO.super(Unknown Source)
The crash in the log appears to be from a bug fixed in 0.7 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9253.0), although the mod will not be compatible there till someone updates it guess it'll have to be me again.
Additionally, the exile fleet having a food shortage suggests an out-of-date ICE version.
I've been working on some code reorg on and off for a while in preparation to build the mod into a usable state in 0.8.1aYou have my thanks, respect, and condolences. Sorry it's such a mess. You also have my permission to do anything you like with ICE. This thread (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9614.0) might be relevant. Also feel free to clone the repo (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/ice/overview). If you have questions feel free to ask. You seem to have a solid understanding of many of the problems with ICE and it seems like you're on the right track with fixing them. Best of luck!
Unfortunately, many of the unique aspects of ICE also make it difficult to keep up to date. I really tried to push the limits of Starsector's combat engine with this mod, and I had some success, but I broke a lot of things in the process (the AI in particular). I honestly don't know how much work it would take to get ICE back to a playable state, but getting it to the point where I would want to use it? That would take several hundred hours (if not thousands). If I ever get back into modding for Starsector, I'll start from scratch.Ouch, thats really rough to hear. I assumed it was in part because ICE was so technical, but I didn't think it was that bad. For what its worth though, your work is appreciated and I'd love to see anything you make if you decide to work on it some more.