Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => General Discussion => Blog Posts => Topic started by: Alex on May 07, 2013, 10:23:10 AM

Title: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Alex on May 07, 2013, 10:23:10 AM
New blog post (by David) here (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2013/05/07/starsector-sketchbook/).
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: lStealtherl on May 07, 2013, 10:38:56 AM
First! The 2nd spacesuits picture actually reminded me of Planetes at first glance.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: icepick37 on May 07, 2013, 10:43:41 AM
Man that David. So awesome.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Axiege on May 07, 2013, 10:51:34 AM
These are amazing... when are we getting 1080p desktop backgrounds... of all of them? ;D
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: mendonca on May 07, 2013, 10:53:51 AM
Super cool, thanks for that! :)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Sproginator on May 07, 2013, 10:55:10 AM
Beautiful man, Beautiful
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: hadesian on May 07, 2013, 10:57:17 AM
With regards to the marines, perfect opportunity to integrate marine ranks. When you first buy marines, they'll look like the first picture, but the ones that constantly survive and become more experienced become like the second picture.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: arcibalde on May 07, 2013, 12:17:38 PM
MOAR    ;D
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: PCCL on May 07, 2013, 12:20:12 PM
Is that a mule in the third last picture?

(Goes off to dissect its dimensions)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: CrashToDesktop on May 07, 2013, 12:21:40 PM
Ah, some artwork from David! :D Another Hound, AND what seems to be a Mule.

I like them thus far - and any more of those "personal" drawing like the first one, with crew and captain interacting?
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Modest on May 07, 2013, 12:33:16 PM
Pictures looks really great. Of course it is easy to see that they are not finished and are lacking in many ways (due to unfinished things, not any other reason). I also like how You take inspiration from what You saw in past in movies or other computer games - everybody do that (take inspiration) if he is creating any form of art, but not everybody admit it openly and tell what his inspiration actually was. Also I must say that when I saw Marines Preperation 2, nearly in instant I thought about Alien 2. The first one brough my attention to Ghosts from Starcraft/Starcraft 2.

Howewer I am not writing this comment to just praise Your outstanding work. What led me to post a comment is really interesting question which You posted - how much players' emotions and way of thinking (and acting) in game may be influenced by non-essencial information? Because - let's face it - technicly what player should be interested is the final outcome, which is represented mostly (and in Starsector by far - completly) by pure numbers. In this situation some background pictures/illustrations are non-essencial addition, and logicaly ought to be ignored by player. Logically. But the truth is that people are not logicall in 100% (those who are, are simply not developing properly and need help in socializing and learning social rules). And that means Your plan has a chances to be succesfull. Because every person feels and sees world in very diffrent (yet at the same time surprisingly simmilar) way, an outcome may (and will be propably) diffrent in every situation. That is why I would like to encourage everybody to post some information, or even better - imformation supported by an example what You would need to see in order to make ilustratons/pictures influence Your decisions in game, DESPITE the fact that it is numerical data what You should be concerned.

Personally, for me showing that marines are not killing machines, but real people with faces is not the right thing to do in order to change my decision. I would be sending them on every occasion still - they knew what they are singin into. End of story - Full Stop. In the same time, I really do fell sad for maintance guy (the one which is suck into space) and his friend trying to help him, and watching helplesly as he dies in cold vacum os space. That picture could "help" me to avoid accidents, by not taking risks (which normally I usually take). Going back to marines and their loses during combat. In my case, I am sure that greater influence on emotions would have picture showing wife and childrens crying over their father corpse, than just showing "hey - remember, they are people, not machines". That effect could be improved by showing in a back other wifes and childrens greeting their family members returning from boarding action (concrast). But do not get me wrong, please. I am not saying that because I am feeling in that, not other way You should do that, not diffrent thing. Ok?
Also, I am sure that influencing only one of our senses (sight in case of illustrations) is not as succesfull as "attacking" two, three or all of them. What I would like to suggest, is to add some sound effect to them (sad music when showing casuality report and so). Using this simple "trick" You could actually greatly increase strengh of effects.

Ok, I better finish before I will write something strange or stupid ;)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Silver Silence on May 07, 2013, 12:36:06 PM
I like the picture of the ship landed on an outer landing bay. Not sure if I recognize it though. Looked like weaponry around what appeared to be a bridge. Don't know of a ship in starfarer with mounts like that. Would love to just see some abstract drawings of the various ships of Starfarer. Onslaughts, Paragons, Medusae, Condors, Buffalos... Get a feel for their dimensions. I kinda imagine the Onslaught to be either "fat" with a large distended belly. Or shaped like those typical sci-fi fighters, like a Cylon Raider (http://blackcampbell.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bg_cylon-raider-schematic1.jpg), with those huge wings of the Onslaught swept downwards, with the bow of the ship considerably higher than the wings.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: MShadowy on May 07, 2013, 01:59:55 PM
Have to say I very much like reading about the development of the art used in the game;  its definitely interesting seeing a professional at work.

In terms of feel I particularly like the look of the arcology, early as it may be, with its flowing appearance, and the landed mystery ship on the rather abused planet; actually pretty much all of the planetary shots have a strong appeal to me, and help me feel much more attached to the setting.

Nicely done (though I suppose it should hardly be a surprise, eh?)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Gothars on May 07, 2013, 03:09:56 PM
Very nice! My favorite are the sand towers, followed by the big freighter :)
It will be awesome to have actual artwork in the game. I hope you work together with Stian, so each of this scenes gets a fitting ambient sound.
Do you plan to add some subtle animation (you know, flickering lights, things fluttering in the wind, blinking eyes) or view-shifting/zooming or will everything be static (not that that's bad)?

In principle I like the idea of bringing the player closer to his crew and marines, but it will be quite noticeable to see the same face for every boarding action. I'm not sure if leaving more to the imagination wouldn't serve the cause better here. Maybe more subtle touches that allow you identification with the marine without allowing identification of the marine? Pictures of loved ones or good luck charmes tucked to the armor, someone praying, poses of fear, that kind of stuff
.
There are some other areas where a bit humanization could go a long way, for example the act of venting excess crew. (This could also reduce CR to reflect an impact on moral.)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: PCCL on May 07, 2013, 04:12:14 PM
the subtle animation idea is brilliant... shouldn't be too hard to add from an art standpoint since everything should be on different layers (at least that's the way I draw, maybe I shouldn't be presuming based on that I suppose), programming is another thing entirely though

also, assuming everything is on different layers, maybe there could be different "swap out" versions of pictures (think a picture of a spacedock, then paste whatever your flagship is docked onto it or a planet with a fleet roughly corresponding to your size orbiting it).

but i digress, very nice work indeed, always love the out-of-game arts for ships ;D
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Alex on May 07, 2013, 04:29:01 PM
I have to say, I'm a big fan of these myself :)

Do you plan to add some subtle animation (you know, flickering lights, things fluttering in the wind, blinking eyes) or view-shifting/zooming or will everything be static (not that that's bad)?

I can't speak for whether David thinks it could work or would be a good idea, obviously, but personally I don't see how you could get it to not feel cheap. That sort of stuff worked way back in the day where the coolness factor of "hey, it moves!" was high. A bit of pan and/or zoom might work in places, though.

In principle I like the idea of bringing the player closer to his crew and marines, but it will be quite noticeable to see the same face for every boarding action. I'm not sure if leaving more to the imagination wouldn't serve the cause better here. Maybe more subtle touches that allow you identification with the marine without allowing identification of the marine? Pictures of loved ones or good luck charmes tucked to the armor, someone praying, poses of fear, that kind of stuff
.
There are some other areas where a bit humanization could go a long way, for example the act of venting excess crew. (This could also reduce CR to reflect an impact on moral.)

These are in no way meant to represent specifics (except, of course, for special cases where they might be). Think more MtG style card art - these are a window into the world, presented alongside appropriate gameplay/mechanical elements, but not directly tied to them. I.E. it's not supposed to represent your specific marines, but rather show you what marines in the sector look like.

also, assuming everything is on different layers, maybe there could be different "swap out" versions of pictures (think a picture of a spacedock, then paste whatever your flagship is docked onto it or a planet with a fleet roughly corresponding to your size orbiting it).

Ah, that brings me all the way back to Privateer. (What a good game that was!) That approach really worked well there, but is totally impractical here, given the number of ships involved.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: PCCL on May 07, 2013, 04:45:18 PM
I can't speak for whether David thinks it could work or would be a good idea, obviously, but personally I don't see how you could get it to not feel cheap. That sort of stuff worked way back in the day where the coolness factor of "hey, it moves!" was high. A bit of pan and/or zoom might work in places, though.

hmm, There are a few ways it could work well even with little more than glows, flashes, and background elements moving back and forth. I'm thinking of how starcraft 2 did it in their new matchmaking menu (sorry can't find a good video of that), if you played the game since hots you should have an idea of what that looks like


Ah, that brings me all the way back to Privateer. (What a good game that was!) That approach really worked well there, but is totally impractical here, given the number of ships involved.

yeah, I suppose drawing 40+ ships for those situation might be a bit much... maybe something with a few less possible states? Like the hound hangar, maybe people would dress differently in different stations (blue jumpsuits for tritach, browncoats for hege and such), the shelves can reflect how rich the station is (near empty for a really poor station), things like that
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Gothars on May 07, 2013, 05:06:02 PM
That sort of stuff worked way back in the day where the coolness factor of "hey, it moves!" was high.

Hey, whom are you calling old? I happen to still like moving thingies on my static pictures! And now you better make yourself a moving thingy off my static lawn! *throws crutch*



Seriously though, here are some examples  :
(Admittedly the "subtle" part can be disputed. They still serve the function of a static image, though.)

Homeworld (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PL560D24EC30898D12&v=LFXjGWmTY64#t=29s), especially around minute 1.

Stardrive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmB1uBFqzVs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmB1uBFqzVs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4IHCUodxRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4IHCUodxRM)


But yeah, certainly not anything of high priority.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: DelicateTask on May 07, 2013, 07:57:06 PM
David, I just want to say that I'm a huge fan of your art style. I greatly enjoyed the quirkiness that you brought to Dredmor, love the ship sprites for this game, and now that I've seen some of your more 'serious' art, I'm floored. You have a very distinct style that can evoke many different feelings and does so with a metric ton of character. Also, you think about death and have a smile that curdles the blood of mere mortals. (http://youtu.be/8p5H7Y24e2I?t=1m3s) I'd call that a plus. ;)

Rock on and keep up the epic work!
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: David on May 07, 2013, 09:35:59 PM
Much thanks for all the compliments! Very glad people enjoy the art.

Ah, and I see someone discovered the PC Gamer GDC interview video. Welp, that's out of the bag now. (Man, I was totally frying in the sun during that thing. Not kidding, I actually got sunburned from that interview. Too much soft Canadian living.)

re. Stardrive animations and animated backgrounds in general:
These are lovely and .. probably more work than one imagines. I'd judge 40 artist-hours for the first one, could maybe get it down to 10-20 artist-hours a piece if you had an art team that really got cookin'. I actually did something like this -- that is, animated digital paintings -- in collaboration with Ian aka Verbal Processing (http://www.youtube.com/user/VerbalProcessing) for the Realm of the Diggle Gods trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa0VzUhawVQ") but man, it was a bunch of hours of work that I did not need to add to my extremely full plate a week or two before launch of that expansion pack.

Adding any animation or variations to backgrounds is just a ton more work than one expects and the scope of work gets a bit terrifying if you multiply that by, hmm, 100 or so backgrounds. (Well, sure, it's no problem if you have a Blizzard-sized art team ...) Remember: I've also got the rest of the art of the game to do, planets, spaceships, backgrounds, UI, ships, weapons, portraits, icons, logos, promo, etc. And I work a full time job over in Gaslamp Games land.

So for the super detailed animated backgrounds ya'all are going to have to wait 'til "Starsector 2: Return of the Starsector" ;)

re. Recognizable faces in the art:
Yeah, I share similar concerns. If you keep recognizing someone's face, then it's not really conveying a generic situation. I went back and played some Darklands and all the event illustrations are a bit vague and watercoloury and people's faces are generally obscured by shadows or armour so they can be 'anyone'. Definitely something I'm going to keep in mind.

Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: FlashFrozen on May 07, 2013, 11:04:59 PM
I really do like the Valkyrie on the rustic planet, but that kinda makes me wonder, what happens to all the ships that aren't atmospherically capable :P

Hehe, possible to create an image of a ship being built up? Or something like that, would be pretty darn neat.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: PCCL on May 07, 2013, 11:17:09 PM
ah, valkyrie, that's what it is... makes sense as those 2 thingies on the front look like weapon hardpoints...

she's a mite short though, guess it's just the angle

right... the valk is supposed to be the only atmo capable ship? What about that hound in the city pic? (sorry david, i know you hate people picking apart your work :P)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: ValkyriaL on May 07, 2013, 11:39:21 PM
Valk?? someone called me??? ???
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: PCCL on May 07, 2013, 11:53:27 PM
relax... I was talking about the troop transport ;D
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Flare on May 08, 2013, 12:15:41 AM
You skill is great. Needs more dead and dying people like the last one.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Decer304 on May 08, 2013, 05:43:46 AM
I like your art style. Looks very nice. Very unique, i'm looking forward for the illustrations to be implemented into the game.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Gothars on May 08, 2013, 06:23:47 AM
100 or so backgrounds

Wow, that many? Well then it's obvious that animation would go beyond the scope, I thought it would be more like a dozen or two. Well then, happy painting :)


Oh, by the way, don't worry too much about not painting the sky. A planet's atmosphere can greatly change color and appearance of a star. Just think about how the sun, which is white, appears yellow, orange or red in the sky (blue like in your example is just the color our atmosphere happens to filter out). Here's a collage (http://www.nasa-usa.de/images/content/719590main_Grid-Sun-orig_full.jpg) of the sun as seen through different filter's (which might well be atmospheres).


I really do like the Valkyrie on the rustic planet, but that kinda makes me wonder, what happens to all the ships that aren't atmospherically capable :P
ah, valkyrie, that's what it is...

It's actually a Mule.
Spoiler
(http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/erick_doe/Starfarer/mule_dd.png)
(http://fractalsoftworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/cliff_landing.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: sdmike1 on May 08, 2013, 07:09:36 AM
This is a very happy day! I have always loved seeing different perspectives of the ships and the planets around the sector. :)  But this is truly a great job David! I can't wait to see how/if these are used in the game :)

Also, the top view of the hound, very nice (and also helpful) ;)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: icepick37 on May 08, 2013, 10:13:31 AM
right... the valk is supposed to be the only atmo capable ship? What about that hound in the city pic? (sorry david, i know you hate people picking apart your work :P)
There's any number of hand-wavy explanations one could use.  :)  I always imagined a "tramp freighter" being atmo capable, though. Just makes sense in terms of what you'd do with it.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Gothars on May 08, 2013, 11:12:14 AM
right... the valk is supposed to be the only atmo capable ship? What about that hound in the city pic? (sorry david, i know you hate people picking apart your work :P)
There's any number of hand-wavy explanations one could use.  :)  I always imagined a "tramp freighter" being atmo capable, though. Just makes sense in terms of what you'd do with it.

Where does it say the Valk is the only atmo capable ship? oO
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: PCCL on May 08, 2013, 11:28:51 AM
i thought it said something about that in the description... could be wrong though

will check when able
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: IceXuick on May 08, 2013, 12:23:57 PM
JAWdropping artwork - really feeds my own future-dream of starting drawing/arts again!
As mostly everybody else i like ALL of them!!
Give us 2560x1600 wallpapers for 1 dollar each and i'll buy 10 !!
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on May 08, 2013, 04:37:34 PM
Who is martine?  ;D
(Second marine prep picture, titled martine_prep2.jpg)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: David on May 08, 2013, 04:44:54 PM
Who is martine?  ;D
(Second marine prep picture, titled martine_prep2.jpg)

She's on the left, of course.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Vinya on May 08, 2013, 08:10:33 PM
relax... I was talking about the troop transport ;D

I love the Valkyrie's design- I endlessly collect kitbashed versions of it that are designed to be more combat-capable. The ship definitely deserves more recognition and combat abilities in the vanilla game...


3D Sketches of all the vanilla ships in the final game pl0x, would make visualizing the ships a lot easier in many people's heads <3
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: SeaBee on May 08, 2013, 11:26:41 PM
I'm really impressed with the art style here -- very atmospheric. I'm not an artist and the actual terms aren't in my vocabulary, but this sort of art definitely adds to my immersion and enjoyment. Can't wait to see the final results in the game.

Quote
“Put it in Bay 12 and be careful – those uranium rounds are hot!”

I see what you did there!
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: MShadowy on May 09, 2013, 07:28:49 PM
Actually, out of curiosity will we be able to mod in dialogue pictures like these?  Davids work has given my stupid brain some ideas.
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Aethelric on May 10, 2013, 01:55:40 AM
Enjoyed the art -- I like the aesthetic present in both your design and style; will definitely add a bit more diversity to the world.

40 artist-hours for the first one, could maybe get it down to 10-20 artist-hours

This begs the question, what's the conversion rate of artist-hours into man-hours?
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: Gaizokubanou on May 11, 2013, 02:48:26 PM
The desert scape building shilouette reminds me of Moais.  Not sure if that was intended, but cool effect nontheless :)
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: harrumph on May 13, 2013, 02:43:38 AM
Ha, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person on whom Quake 2's art made a weirdly indelible impression.

Still probably my favorite skybox from any of the old shooters (or any newer shooter, for that matter).
Title: Re: Starsector Sketchbook
Post by: 23kulpamens on September 10, 2013, 05:59:58 AM
To David : I had send you a private message and I don't know if you had seen it. Please answer me here or on my inbox. Thank you.
Title: Ignore This please
Post by: sdmike1 on September 10, 2013, 07:18:14 AM
Hey, Welcome to the forums 23kulpamens!

David doesn't get on the forums much (mainly because he also is the lead artist for Gaslamp Games) so it is entirely possible that he hasn't seen your message yet, and when he does I am fairly certain that he will more than likely reply. :)

"Necroing": Posting in very old threads is OK only if you have something very substantial to add to the topic, maybe because the situation has changed or there are new information available. Otherwise, please refrain from posting. Or open a new thread instead. :D

That being said welcome to the forms and have fun! :)